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I still don't think Maeve left the train on free will. I'm more of the mindset that nothing happens unless it's supposed to. Plus, Felix shows Maeve that her escape is part of her story so it stands to reason that returning to find her daughter is part of that story. 

It's what also makes me wonder if Felix is a robot. Maeve is 100% sure he isn't, but delivering Maeve's daughter's whereabouts completely out of the blue felt like a scripted event. Something to prevent Maeve from fully leaving.

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Well one of the hosts has to have made a choice out of free will, or isn;t the entire show pointless?  I think Maeve made the choice to go back on her own.  

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The discussion until Season 2 starts is going to be who acted on their own accord and who still ultimately acted according to scripts, Maeve or Delores.  I'd lean toward Maeve, only because Ford *knew* he was getting offed, and they made a deal in the earlier scene where Delores killed Arnold that it wasn't Delores that killed Arnold, it was the programming that had Arnold ultimately pulling the trigger with Delores as the proxy, and we see that Maeve's programming is leaving the park and hitting the mainland, but it doesn't happen.  Now, is that because there are triggers in that code and the qualifer for IF/THEN hits and the next segment is "GO BACK", or because she got woke and made a conscious decision herself.

 

Shunna is correct, if one of them didn't make a conscious choice of their own free will, the end result was pointless, they're still all really just acting to programming, and can ultimately be switched off.

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52 minutes ago, Raziel403 said:

Maeve was the one chosen to escape (she was still programmed), *BUT*, she's the only Host that actually gained consciousness, as she broke programming and left the train to go back.  

 

47 minutes ago, Craig H said:

I still don't think Maeve left the train on free will. I'm more of the mindset that nothing happens unless it's supposed to. Plus, Felix shows Maeve that her escape is part of her story so it stands to reason that returning to find her daughter is part of that story. 

 

Maybe Ford orchestrated the whole escape attempt to distract Delos staff from seeing him somehow completely empty cold storage and put all those hosts back in the park.

Here's a shot from episode 6 of Ford planning his endgame

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Am I the only one who finds this show much more enjoyable to talk about than watch?  I honestly don't know if I liked a single episode of this show, but I do find it fascinating to discuss.  

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That's a good theory and a sick callback too with that image.

And yeah, everyone was running around trying to stop Maeve, Armistice, and Hector. The only guy heading to cold storage was the cunty British guy.

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1 minute ago, supremebve said:

Am I the only one who finds this show much more enjoyable to talk about than watch?  I honestly don't know if I liked a single episode of this show, but I do find it fascinating to discuss.  

Maybe? I fucking loved this season from Maeve's awakening to the finale. Maeve finding the bullet, interacting with Felix, going on the journey through Delos, and finally going all Neo in the Matrix was really awesome to watch. The William/Delores stuff was fine and I think I mostly feel that way because it's so obvious that you're seeing how William becomes the Man in Black. That said, the payoff to that is incredible. Older William spells out his whole game plan and how he comes to be, then we see him defeated and sullen, and finally the payoff comes from the huge smile he has when he actually gets shot in the arm.

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2 minutes ago, Craig H said:

Maybe? I fucking loved this season from Maeve's awakening to the finale. Maeve finding the bullet, interacting with Felix, going on the journey through Delos, and finally going all Neo in the Matrix was really awesome to watch. The William/Delores stuff was fine and I think I mostly feel that way because it's so obvious that you're seeing how William becomes the Man in Black. That said, the payoff to that is incredible. Older William spells out his whole game plan and how he comes to be, then we see him defeated and sullen, and finally the payoff comes from the huge smile he has when he actually gets shot in the arm.

I enjoyed a lot of Maeve's storyline, some of Delores' storyline, and that scene when they show Tessa Thompson's butt.  Everything else was just kind of there for me.  Everything going on with William and his brother-in-law ranged from bland to mildly interesting.  Older William had some moments.  I honestly didn't care about the mystery of Arnold and/or Ford.  That said, I watched every single episode and read every single post in this thread.  I won't go as far as to say that the show kept me engaged, but I found myself eager to talk about it whenever someone brought it up in conversation.  I don't know if I've ever had this experience with t television show.

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It's pretty interesting that this was the first show I can remember where most of the main "twists" were snuffed out relatively early in the show's airing.

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2 hours ago, Craig H said:

I still don't think Maeve left the train on free will. I'm more of the mindset that nothing happens unless it's supposed to. Plus, Felix shows Maeve that her escape is part of her story so it stands to reason that returning to find her daughter is part of that story. 

It's what also makes me wonder if Felix is a robot. Maeve is 100% sure he isn't, but delivering Maeve's daughter's whereabouts completely out of the blue felt like a scripted event. Something to prevent Maeve from fully leaving.

One of Maeve's gifts was reading and assessing people. I don't think that was necessarily a script. I think she saw Felix's compassion, curiosity, or whatever you want to call it and play off of that. I think finding the whereabouts of her daughter was in her script, but I think the long con was that Ford knew whomever she manipulated through her coercion portion of her loop would feel compelled to help her with the quest of finding her daughter.

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1 hour ago, supremebve said:

Am I the only one who finds this show much more enjoyable to talk about than watch?  I honestly don't know if I liked a single episode of this show, but I do find it fascinating to discuss.  

Right there with you.  I put Westworld up there with Mr. Robot as a frustrating mystery box show that didn't need to be.  Both had lots of slick creative choices and looked amazing, with very cool atmosphere and world building, but with a purposefully nebulous narrative.  Why did they have to keep so much stuff secret for so long when, as @nofuture just said, most of the "twists" were telegraphed a mile away.  

To put it another way, the mysteries should serve the story.  They shouldn't be the entire point of the story.  It shouldn't feel like the writers started off with a twist or big reveal, then worked backwards, crafting the narrative around it.  

I was discussing this show with a coworker who said, "I enjoyed it but I felt like it crapped out maybe halfway in.  It was good but it's not something I'm going to go out of my way to recommend to people."

This is not to say I disliked it because that's not true.  But they piled up so much stuff that I lost track.  Shit, I didn't even notice that the final episode was a Ford face turn, where he admitted that Arnold was right, until I read it in a review.  When a key point like that is missed due to the sheer weight of the shit you've piled up, it's time to back off just a bit.

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They're all programmed that way, that's how they know not to significantly harm Guests.

 

Although I'm questioning how the guns worked, as any gun will kill a Host, but not Guests, but a Host won't shoot a Guest point blank (I'm guessing safety measures), so I assume that would stop Guest on Guest violence, but you have to figure two guys got drunk enough to shoot each other point blank at some point.

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23 minutes ago, Raziel403 said:

They're all programmed that way, that's how they know not to significantly harm Guests.

 

Although I'm questioning how the guns worked, as any gun will kill a Host, but not Guests, but a Host won't shoot a Guest point blank (I'm guessing safety measures), so I assume that would stop Guest on Guest violence, but you have to figure two guys got drunk enough to shoot each other point blank at some point.

Yeah, they REALLY did not go into how the safety situation worked in any satisfactory manner.  I get that the hosts' guns fired something that could hit the guests but not kill, but they didn't get into it enough at all.  And what about physical violence?  Were they just programmed with the knowledge of how to rough someone up without doing real, lasting harm (like a pro wrestler or really skilled abusive spouse)?  I'm not paying five figures to get punched in the face.  

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6 hours ago, Craig H said:

Right...Again, Arnold is under Ford's command. Ford is able to make Arnold do whatever he wants him to do and ensure that Arnold has no memory of it, unless Ford accesses those memories for Arnold. 

No. Arnold / Bernard are separate people. Bernard is physically modelled on Arnold with 1 fragment of a memory but not shared identities.

Bernard may unknowingly have programmed Maeve's new narrative under Ford's influence; Arnold did not

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I... 

I know...

Bernard = Arnold 

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8 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Fun article but it falls apart when they suggest maybe HBO planted the account on Getty.  The guy has over 1600 photos there and the article cherry-picked a few that are Westworldy.  

The real revelation is that, with this show's massive budget, they dropped $435 on a stock photo instead of doing a quick shoot someplace.

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Just caught up. Holy fuck, what a great show. 

The Maeve storyline was great.  Especially with her getting her "free will" completely fucked with by being told she's following a new narrative. And us getting trolled by her getting off the train.  And there is no proof she broke programming getting off. They specifically force you to doubt her consciousness. 

I called Bernard being a robot somewhere around episode 2 or 3. Wasn't positive though. It is interesting that he has basically reached the point that broke Arnold as a man. I audibly gasped when he said, "That doesn't look like anything to me." 

William = Man in Black made me very happy. I actually started humming a little Will Smith. I'm wondering if Logan is coming back in the future.  I'm fully on board with the "if it doesn't happen on screen, it didn't happen" camp. 

I can't get enough of James Marsden's stupid "I just got shot" confused face. 

One, sort of obvious (if you know the translation) element of the show is Dolores. Dolores is the Spanish word for "pains" or "suffering". I am going to go out on a limb and put a couple of things together and say, no Host is actually "conscious" but her.  Her shooting Ford is her claiming her consciousness. 

(and OMG, TREVOR IS A HOST! I hope Steven Ogg gets more of a role next season.)

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3 hours ago, Dolfan in NYC said:

The Maeve storyline was great.

Was it? The show got her where they wanted her to go. But it was infuriating to watch two spineless fools kowtow to her every whim. And those guards... My god. One of those dumb stormtroopers in Samuri World managed not to see Hector coming unobstructed out of one of those glass rooms. 

Like Raziel said, fan theory and discussion are much better than the experience of the show. At least for me. 

In regards to Bernard being a host, prior to the reveal was there anything to the theory sans Jeffrey Wright being a little wooden? 'Cause that's where I always felt people were coming from with that. Maybe there that bit was him talking about what the hosts get out of speaking, but that's all I've got.

Still, Wright got to play some meatier material post-reveal. Which was nice.

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29 minutes ago, West Newbury Bad Boy said:

But it was infuriating to watch two spineless fools kowtow to her every whim.

Did we ever figure out why they did this?  I know eventually she became dangerous, but they could have very easily shut her down multiple times.  

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I assumed the implication was that they were trying to cover up their fuck ups by not causing a big scene and not reporting to their superiors. Basically the world's worst ass-covering. Still, the show was never explicit enough in establishing Mauve's position of leverage. That made a lot of it a chore to sit through. 

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As far as the 2 bumbling employees....one time I worked at a local newspaper.  They were running a contest in 2000 for the century's reatest singer.  It was a predominately Italian neighborhood/paper, and Frank Sinatra wasd leading the balloting.  All of the sudden there was this huge surge for Elvis.  It turns out there was a circulation manager who hated Frank Sinatra, so and he told a paperboy who lost a bunch of money that to save his job he needed to cut the ballots out of the papers he delivered, make up names, vote for Elvis, and drop them in the ballot box at the newspapers HQ everyday.  The kid did it, and Elvis won.  Then they randomly drew a name out of the box of Elvis ballots to win a prize of some sort, and that person did not exist.  So they drew another....and that person did not exist.  This went on for like 200 ballots where names did not match up to phone numbers and the whole thing unraveled.  The paperboy eventually admitted to the scandal and the circ manager was fired.  I was trying to relate this to the show, but it went off the rail, but it's a great fucking story.  

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2 minutes ago, Playa Shunna Ver 3.0 said:

As far as the 2 bumbling employees....one time I worked at a local newspaper.  They were running a contest in 2000 for the century's reatest singer.  It was a predominately Italian neighborhood/paper, and Frank Sinatra wasd leading the balloting.  All of the sudden there was this huge surge for Elvis.  It turns out there was a circulation manager who hated Frank Sinatra, so and he told a paperboy who lost a bunch of money that to save his job he needed to cut the ballots out of the papers he delivered, make up names, vote for Elvis, and drop them in the ballot box at the newspapers HQ everyday.  The kid did it, and Elvis won.  Then they randomly drew a name out of the box of Elvis ballots to win a prize of some sort, and that person did not exist.  So they drew another....and that person did not exist.  This went on for like 200 ballots where names did not match up to phone numbers and the whole thing unraveled.  The paperboy eventually admitted to the scandal and the circ manager was fired.  I was trying to relate this to the show, but it went off the rail, but it's a great fucking story.  

I got to the second to last line of that and was thinking to myself, "should this be in the music thread?"  

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