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The WESTWORLD Thread

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Because it was starting to clutter up the general TV thread and probably spoiling people who haven't started watching yet.

I'm not sure I even LIKE this show, but I'll be damned if I can't stop watching and thinking about all the crazy theories.  If nothing else, it's the most captivating show since the first season of TRUE DETECTIVE.  (And it'll probably end about as well as all that Yellow King/Carcosa business, honestly.)

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Would Stranger Things not qualify since it not have a week to week build, for crazy theories to exist? 

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Yeah, streaming shows that dump all of their episodes at once don't afford people the opportunity to pore over every frame for 7 days at a time and work themselves into mass hysteria over what it all could mean.  STRANGER THINGS was a phenomenon, but that was more like everybody in the world watched it, generally agreed that they liked it and would like to see more of it, and moved on.  Except for maybe the Barb hot-takers.

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Wonderful.  I make this thread and now, all the sudden, you motherfuckers don't want to talk about this show anymore.

Kind of a slow night on the MIB/William theory front with William and Dolores sitting this episode out.  The only new info we got there was MIB and Teddy being warned to steer clear of Pariah because of something big going down there, which was a blatant misdirect to make us think it's a reference to the gunfight last week, but if you paid attention later on, there's an offhand mention by someone in the control room about Pariah being at "max capacity" and narratives being changed to divert traffic.

I guess this week also confirmed that, despite what might've been said early on, the early and later generation models are only physically distinguishable by what's underneath the hood.

I really enjoyed the Mauve storyline this week, although I feel like that was probably elevated by the stunning string arrangement of "Motion Picture Soundtrack" during her behind the scenes tour.  The scene where she watches her own branching dialogue tree while she's talking and has a meltdown was fantastic.  I'd like to see more heady sci-fi stuff like that and less corporate politics and espionage.  Like...I feel like I should be excited to see Tessa Thompson on the show, but if she's just adding another layer to the Delos conspiracy stuff (which is by far the least interesting aspect of the show)...well, I can't get as excited for that.

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Whoever does the music for this show needs to win all the awards.

 

I'm really trying to figure out how Mauve got walked around without anyone really noticing.  Also wondering why something that huge allows itself to have huge floors of dead space in the office areas left vacant instead of being repurposed.  But that would remove the ability of Bernard to have used the old tech.

 

I'm in agreement of digging the sci-fi stuff over all the espionage.  

 

I'm going to love when all the hosts get woke.

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The desktop in the old, unused section of the offices showed the old Westworld logo, the same logo seen when William checked into the park, lending credence to the "separate timelines" theory.  Here's a reddit thread about the two logos with screenshots.  I'm not too excited if that turns out to be the case.  It just feels like a gimmicky twist that too many people saw coming.

I do enjoy how they've left the old offices "buried" under the new, like whatever disaster happened back then is something the Delos hastily tried to forget and bury.  Also, this easter egg was down there:

 

westworld.jpg

 

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Really didn't like how dumb the butchers & Elsie were portrayed to be this week. In stead of lowering all her attributes the raised them to God level. What sense does that make? I know she threatened them & they had a fear of getting caught but what would happen if a host that showed it could bypass sleep mode & retained past memories after being wiped told anyone higher than them? That wouldn't turn out very well for Maeve. The other excuse is someone would find out if they lowered her AI well doesn't the same apply in reverse? Undoubtedly someone will find out they boosted it. Elsie going to that remote part of the park by herself right after her last encounter in the park & with the knowledge that the information she finds is very damaging to whomever it implicates is not a smart decision by a supposed very smart character 

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Yeah, the whole "I'm going off to the dark haunted house to look for clues in the middle of the night!"  "OK but be careful!" thing was dumb.  I'm surprised the show fell back on such a tired old trope.  Will we find out next week that the head of security is near retirement and just has to stay safe for one more week?

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I loved everything about Maeve's journey and the very video game nature of the Man in Black's escort mission with Teddy. If only all escort missions were that good. 

Something else regarding Maeve's journey...So in episode 4, early in the episode, Maeve looks like she's short circuiting and begins hearing things. Her eyes begin twitching and there's this high frequency tone. Then you learn in the latest episode that someone already altered her stats, namely the perception stat. That must have been what was happening in episode 4.

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Pretty sure that Bernard is a Host & is Arnold, Ford lied about the picture he showed Bernard of him & Arnold since that was a picture of Young Ford & His Father. Or it could be that Bernard couldn't see himself in the picture like how Delores couldn't see the girl in Time Square. Also the talks Bernard has with Delores may be when Arnold had the original talks with her (He is wearing different clothing in those scenes). 

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It actually looks like there might be a photo behind the photo of Ford and his father/"father."

I would not at all be surprised if Bernard saw himself in the underneath photo in afuture episode.

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I think the implication at this point is that Arnold isn't bound to any one host. He managed to hide a ghost of his consciousness in the original models and is (at the very least) spreading his influence through the satellite uplink while at the same time playing a game with Ford wherein Arnold is the voice of God or some shit. 

My big question is if the MiB is looking for a game with real stakes where the hosts fight back or if he's looking to achieve a similar omnipotence as Arnold. 

I dumbly take Bernard at face value. Probably a huge mistake. 

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If you had Bernard as a Host, you win.

 

Not sure what happened with Elsie, but we can probably guess.  

 

So, I'm going now with Ford unexpectedly loses control of the hosts due to whatever is going on with Mauve being what apparently happened with Delores originally cranked up to 11.   

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I'm I wrong to think that Ford killed Arnold, and all of this is coming down to Arnold's free thinking hosts vs Ford's obedient storytelling slave hosts? 

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Bernard as a host I saw coming, but I didn't see them killing off Theresa. 

And yes, what of Elsie? 

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The Bernard reveal actually makes me really optimistic about the future of the show.

For one thing, it shows that the writers are playing fair.  They spread out the clues about Bernard for the viewers (getting more and more obvious in recent episodes, really), and if we're observant enough to put it all together ahead of time, that's fine.  They're not misdirecting us or pulling shit out of their ass for shock value; if you pay close enough attention, it's all there for you to see.  And in light of that, I think the MIB/William "multiple time periods" stuff is exactly what we think it is.

But what really encourages me is that it dispells a lot of fears we've had that all this show had to deliver were reveals.  Because it wasn't just about the reveal.  It wasn't "Bernard's a host!  Dun dun DUNNNNN" *fade to black* Tune in next week to see the fallout from this SHOCKING revelation!  They took it a step further, so it's "Benard's a host AND he's Ford's murderbot AND he does some murdering that's going to (hopefully) shake up the Ford/Delos dynaimc in an interesting way."

And all of that makes Bernard a much more interesting character to me going forward, because I don't think I'm going out on a limb in thinking that he's eventually going to gain the same awareness that Dolores has (they're both from the same batch of prototypes after all), I'm interested in how he responds to knowing what Ford has made him do (he has REAL blood on his hands, not the fake kind).  If I had more time on my hands, I would go back and watch all the Bernard/Dolores conversations that no one can place in the timeline and try to figure out if it's a pre- or post-awareness Bernard.  Although I'm sure Reddit is on that already...

All of that is to say, I'm a lot more confident that MIB/William is going to be more than a simple TA-DAAAAA than I was before last night.

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Show picked up for Season 2, which means we likely not getting the big reveal this season as there's only 3 episodes left.

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I wonder if Delos' long game is replacing world leaders with robots, like in the sequel to the original film.

Also, that would suck.

Bernard is definitely tied to the mystery of Arnold's identity; I forget the specifics, but Bernard's name is an anagram of Arnold's.  And when the hosts hear "Arnold's" voice in their heads, it's Jeffrey Wright.

@EVA great point about their handling of this reveal and how shitty it would be in lesser hands.  I still don't like the "two timelines, Billy is the MiB" idea, though.

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I'm more thinking Delos' long game is Dynamic Thinking disposable weapons.  It's cliche, but makes sense with the "limits on how smart the Hosts can get" that the Board wants, as opposed to the free reign that seems to be going on.

 

I'm coming around on the theory of the "Bernard talks to Delores" stuff is going on in some kind of VR link.  

 

The most obivious thing that kills the 'William is MiB" is that MiB has never been to the Maze and doesn't know where to find it.  William has found it and is obiviously there.

 

That doesn't stop my "MiB is actually Logan" theory.

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I don't think William is at the maze yet.  And I think whatever the "incident" was will keep him from getting there.

The problem with Logan-as-MIB is that it doesn't really track with the info we've been given regarding MIB actually being a decent person in the real world and his whole "remorseless killer" routine being him simply using the most efficient means to play the greater game.  When Ford and MIB meet, I forget the exact words, but he specifically called him out for not wearing the black hat believably.  On the contrary, Logan is a known, unapologetic scumbag, both in Westworld and the real.

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9 hours ago, Technico Support said:

I wonder if Delos' long game is replacing world leaders with robots, like in the sequel to the original film.

Also one of Jimmy Bond's plans in the 1967 (aka good) Casino Royale. :)

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8 hours ago, odessasteps said:

Also one of Jimmy Bond's plans in the 1967 (aka good) Casino Royale. :)

You know that was a spoof, right?

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I re-watched the last episode again and I have a new theory, but it's on shaky legs.

I think what we're watching with William, Logan, and Delores is what's happening in the future. We're all lead to believe this is happening in the past and that we're potentially seeing William become the Man in Black, but what if William is the Man in Black's son or just unrelated at all. The reason why I bring all of this up are the visions Delores is having in the storyline with William and Logan. I'm fairly convinced that the gorge she saw a vision of and drew, and then later actually found is the same gorge that Ford was digging out. In that same episode where Ford watches over the heavy machinery in use I think we see Ford's vision for a grand storyline and it begins with this black frame of a church.

So in addition to seeing the gorge, Delores is also seeing the frame of the church and the completed church. How the Main in Black, Ford, Bernard, Arnold, Delos, and everyone else fits in, I'm not sure, but I'm positive that what we thought, William, Logan, and Delores being the past storyline, is actually the future storyline.

I previously thought that William falls in love with Delores, sees the company reclaim and reprogram Delores, and William then spends years revisiting Westworld to try to get Delores to remember him. While he keeps making these visits, he sees the larger conspiracy with Delos, Ford, and others and thinks that if he can't get Delores back then he's going to set her free and destroy it all. After this last episode though, I'm not so sure that's the case.

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I was trying to avoid turning this thing into Lost and having crazy theories throughout, but this last episode basically forced my hand. Here's a really rough theory that I posted on Facebook to a friend earlier.

I think the park ultimately only has one creator, and that's Arnold. Once Arnold realized he was going to die, he developed Ford with a high intelligence rating to defend his legacy while creating a narrative that there was an area of disagreement between Arnold and Ford. He taught Ford to create Bernard to be his companion and sort of enforcer. I started to have that inkling about Ford during the bit where Bernard was fired. Hopkins was eerily still with his head cocked, almost as if he had been shut off temporarily during the whole sequence.

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This show is nothing if not a crazy theory generator, so let fly.

There's definitely a shoe out there waiting to drop on the true nature of the Ford/Arnold relationship, but I feel like it would be delving into self-parody already if Ford were to be revealed as a host, so I hope you're off on that one.

I'm very interested to see what reason they come up with as to why Ford created a host that looked like Arnold (because 100% that's what Bernard is).  Was it really something as petty as just wanting to make his rival into his eternal slave?

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