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MLB OFFSEASON (2016-2017) THREAD


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9 hours ago, sabremike said:

I always thought the Continental League was mostly a bluff to force the NL to return to NY. At least that's the version of history that was on the Mets 25th anniversary video. Would be interested in checking out this book.

 

6 hours ago, Tabe said:

"Bottom of the 9th" by Michael Shapiro. 

Yeah.  Read that a couple of years ago as well.  Good book.  Mostly the Continental League WAS a sham - they didn't really have the money or cities in place to make a league happen - especially when MLB would have stonewalled them out of talent.  Historically ALL third (and back before the AL, second) leagues have always been a sham because getting ballparks, cities and money marks in place - ALONG with credible talent - is virtually impossible.

But the Continental League had Branch Rickey (even though Rickey was old and probably way past his prime mentally - this was right after he was basically embarrassed out of Pittsburgh) and Rickey's political connections.  Once Rickey got some politicians sniffing around at MLB's antitrust protection, MLB was quick to add NY and Houston to put the kibosh on the Continental League.

 

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32 minutes ago, EdA said:

 

Yeah.  Read that a couple of years ago as well.  Good book.  Mostly the Continental League WAS a sham - they didn't really have the money or cities in place to make a league happen - especially when MLB would have stonewalled them out of talent.  Historically ALL third (and back before the AL, second) leagues have always been a sham because getting ballparks, cities and money marks in place - ALONG with credible talent - is virtually impossible.

But the Continental League had Branch Rickey (even though Rickey was old and probably way past his prime mentally - this was right after he was basically embarrassed out of Pittsburgh) and Rickey's political connections.  Once Rickey got some politicians sniffing around at MLB's antitrust protection, MLB was quick to add NY and Houston to put the kibosh on the Continental League.

 

The Federal League gave it a go in the mid teens, but didn't last very long, but that's the only one I can think of that made it that far(at least after the turn of the century).

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8 hours ago, Kuetsar said:

The Federal League gave it a go in the mid teens, but didn't last very long, but that's the only one I can think of that made it that far(at least after the turn of the century).

Well...obviously the American League did pretty well for itself.  Ditto the Pacific Coast League.  As did the Negro Leagues - but the Negro Leagues were obviously a different story all-together.  

The Player's and Beer and Whiskey Leagues did about the same as the Federal league but only lasted a year.  And both of those were in the late 19th Century.

It was easier for leagues to have SOME start up before the the days of Ruth, as ballparks were easier to get/throw up quickly and there were plenty of semi-pro and major and minor league talent to steal from contracts that really had no teeth.  The Federal League forced what became MLB to tighten up contracts and...oddly...it turned out people really didn't want to attend games in sketchy ballparks that were likely to catch fire.

With the way the minors stored talent, a third league THEORETICALLY could have started up post-WWII (maybe even before, but the Depression and WWII would have killed it dead as MLB barely survived both).  And that gave some impetus to the Continental League.  But with radio and, eventually, TV making MLB players stars, a third league was never going to get the fans.

Now whether you want to believe expansion was caused by Rickey's masterminding the operation (maybe a smidgen), Rickey talking to politicians about MLB's antitrust (probably, a lot), the owners smelling money in markets they hadn't yet tapped (probably a HUGE amount) or just the streamlining of air travel (probably a massive amount), the fact is...once the Continental League started making noise, MLB suddenly put teams in Houston and back in NY

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8 hours ago, EdA said:

With the way the minors stored talent, a third league THEORETICALLY could have started up post-WWII (maybe even before, but the Depression and WWII would have killed it dead as MLB barely survived both).  And that gave some impetus to the Continental League.  But with radio and, eventually, TV making MLB players stars, a third league was never going to get the fans.

Now whether you want to believe expansion was caused by Rickey's masterminding the operation (maybe a smidgen), Rickey talking to politicians about MLB's antitrust (probably, a lot), the owners smelling money in markets they hadn't yet tapped (probably a HUGE amount) or just the streamlining of air travel (probably a massive amount), the fact is...once the Continental League started making noise, MLB suddenly put teams in Houston and back in NY

Ironically now with the level of it- the TV factor may have switched things- if sports TV was doing better, now would be as good a chance for a third league to get some legs just due to all the sports channels that'd need product that'd have a chance at getting some leeway. 

The bigger problem would be getting players, but there are a level of good independent leaguers or lower minor leaguers they could potentially pluck away, and there's enough major league caliber AAA/AA level teams that you could do it- just if you built a league from "Triple A cities that have a major league sports team in at least one other 'North American sports league', you could have a third league built around:  Buffalo, Indianapolis, Columbus, Charlotte, Oklahoma City, Memphis, Nashville, New Orleans, Sacramento, Las Vegas, and Salt Lake City- with Jacksonville and San Antonio added if you go to Double A as well. 

You might need to pluck some teams from the biggest markets to fill them (a Los Angeles or Chicago team, give Brooklyn or Northern New Jersey a team, see which city blinks first between Hartford and Pawtucket for a New England team and hand a team to the other one)- but there'd be just enough to make a potential viable third league.

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5 hours ago, SorceressKnight said:

Ironically now with the level of it- the TV factor may have switched things- if sports TV was doing better, now would be as good a chance for a third league to get some legs just due to all the sports channels that'd need product that'd have a chance at getting some leeway. 

The bigger problem would be getting players, but there are a level of good independent leaguers or lower minor leaguers they could potentially pluck away, and there's enough major league caliber AAA/AA level teams that you could do it- just if you built a league from "Triple A cities that have a major league sports team in at least one other 'North American sports league', you could have a third league built around:  Buffalo, Indianapolis, Columbus, Charlotte, Oklahoma City, Memphis, Nashville, New Orleans, Sacramento, Las Vegas, and Salt Lake City- with Jacksonville and San Antonio added if you go to Double A as well. 

You might need to pluck some teams from the biggest markets to fill them (a Los Angeles or Chicago team, give Brooklyn or Northern New Jersey a team, see which city blinks first between Hartford and Pawtucket for a New England team and hand a team to the other one)- but there'd be just enough to make a potential viable third league.

Yeah, maybe.  The problem now is most smart people in the biz knows the sports TV bubble is about to burst and no one is going to mess with a start up league for any other reason than to be a tax write off.  There's not going to be any third league in my lifetime with the way MLB has a stranglehold on talent and after TV money dries up.

Potentially the way to go would be to organize Latin America more and generate winter ball as a sort of B league.  But B leagues draw nothing and organizing Latin America is impossible.

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1 hour ago, EdA said:

Yeah, maybe.  The problem now is most smart people in the biz knows the sports TV bubble is about to burst and no one is going to mess with a start up league for any other reason than to be a tax write off.  There's not going to be any third league in my lifetime with the way MLB has a stranglehold on talent and after TV money dries up.

DONALD TRUMP PRESENTS THE TFL!

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On 10/20/2016 at 9:05 AM, Hoffman said:

Trump did claim he would own the New York team in a third major league back in the late 1980s.  I'm actually a bit more intrigued about Pia Zadora's then-husband owning the proposed Los Angeles club.

http://www.nytimes.com/1989/08/17/sports/trump-says-he-ll-own-team-in-new-league.html

WRONG! He never said that!

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On 10/22/2016 at 1:55 AM, Serious Darius Bagfelt said:

Woof.  Dont think the Jays will offer that to Bautista in case he accepts it.

Yeah, about that...per MLB Trade Rumors and tweets from Ben Nicholson-Smith:

  • The Blue Jays, as has been widely expected, will issue qualifying offers to both Edwin Encarnacion and Jose Bautista barring some form of unforeseen injury popping up between now and the point at which that decision must formally be made. The Jays are “still working” on determining whether they’ll make a QO to Michael Saunders, who enjoyed a massively productive first half of the season before flaming out in the season’s final months. Toronto would, of course, receive a compensatory draft pick for any free agent that rejects the one-year, $17.2MM qualifying offer and signs with a new team. The Jays will “do everything” they can during contract talks with Encarnacion and Bautista in the exclusive five-day window they have with their own free agents following the completion of the World Series. Atkins added that he still feels Bautista can be an effective defensive outfielder.
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I wonder if he was driving. Plausibly. Drunk people on boats is not exactly a new concept anywhere, so this wasn't unexpected. The cocaine, that's an outlier, but he did what he did.

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I read that there is pretty decent evidence that he was not at the helm. Apparently he was on the telephone with someone, and that person heard him giving instructions to the person at the controls, then the phone went dead. Also, that is coming from his longtime family attorney, so who knows how accurate that statement is.

 

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Yay we picked up Jay Bruce's extension. If the Wilponzis let Cespedes walk baseball should show some integrity and force them to sell to real owners. If they have to own a team let them own the A's where their penny pinching bullshit is the norm.

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Mariners exercised Seth Smith's option, declined Chis Ianetta's and waived Nori Aoki (who was promptly claimed by Houston). They also outrighted Steve Clevenger, who elected free agency so hey if your team needs either a backup catcher or a guy to make moronic racist remarks on twitter there you go. 

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Other options exercised today: 

Francisco Rodriguez 

Jaime Garcia 

Wade Davis

Alcides Escobar

Matt Moore

Jonathan Lucroy

Carlos Santana

Jose Reyes

 

Declined:

Jordan Walden

Matt Albers

Jon Niese

Yusmerio Petit

Charlie Morton

Ryan Howard

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