[OCT 2016] WRESTLING DISCUSSION THREAD

[Raziel]

By that time, they'll be called some new buzzword and structuring will have changed 5 times.

[Pete]

Does anyone else keep reading "Floslam" as "Flotsam?"

[Casey]

Completely unrelated to this FloSlam stuff, but James Ellsworth is likely getting a WWE contract apparently. Because his t-shirt has been selling like a motherfucker. If you sort their shirts on the Shop website by Best Sellers, he's currently #3 - behind Rollins and Owens, but ahead of people like Cena, Styles, Goldberg and Reigns.

[Playa Shunna Ver 3.0]

Someone posted some reviews of the FloSports site on the F4W boards.  Not so good.  Lots of recurring charges where charges should not recur, and hidden transaction fees when they refund your money, and events not starting when you have bought them and already been paid.   Just saying.  

[RIPPA]

Since Wade Keller started all the BIG NEWS~! nonsense, here is his report. And yes it is about the FloSports stuff

http://www.pwtorch.com/site/2016/10/24/flosports-launching-wwe-network-like-streaming-service-available-apple-tv-roku-non-wwe-wrestling-promotions-worldwide/

Spoiler

If the future of pro wrestling revenue is subscription-based streaming, as WWE believes it is, a new competitor has emerged today with major funding to compete for rights to non-WWE content.

PWTorch has learned that FloSports, a rapidly expanding start-up with a recent inection of $21.2 million in funding behind it, is expected to announce today its move into the pro wrestling category under the title FloSlam with multiple wrestling brands affiliated with it out of the gate, and more serious negotiations under way.

FloSports describes itself as follows: “FloSports is a direct-to-consumer, subscription-based sports media company in Austin, Texas, that is unlocking a world of sports coverage that true fans have been waiting for.”

The short-term impact on the industry is that there could be actual bidding or competition between WWE and FloSports for pro wrestling content outside of WWE worldwide, including the companies WWE has asked its fans about in their recent surveys. This list of potential FloSports partners includes ROH, EVOLVE, Pro Wrestling Guerrilla, the burgeoning U.K. indy scene, CMLL in Mexico, and New Japan Pro Wrestling or other Japan groups. FloSports is willing to inject a significant amount of up-front money to major indy groups that sign up, giving them the revenue necessary to better compete for indy wrestler salaries and hire international established stars for their bigger shows. This could mean indy wrestlers won’t be as quick to jump at WWE’s offers to join NXT if they can make a significantly better financial deal outside of WWE.

Wrestlers such as James Storm and the Young Bucks are among the small handful who could have signed with WWE’s NXT but have been given big enough offers from TNA and ROH, respectively, to decide to pursue their careers outside of the WWE environment. FloSports has the funding and economies-of-scale platform, with the network available to subscribers via an app on Apple TV and Roku, just announced two weeks ago, along with computer and phone streaming, to offer their affiliated wrestling companies a chance to market their product on a more reliable, accessible platform than ever before, to the widest audience yet. This means more offers can be made to keep top indy stars from signing with NXT, and perhaps even give some established WWE contracted wrestlers not gaining traction with WWE booking an opportunity to earn a better living outside of WWE.

Instead of the iPPV format some indy groups have struggled to gain traction with, FloSlam will be offering a flat rate monthly access in the $20 range per month (and less with a one-year subscription) to unlock and stream live and on demand all pro wrestling offerings on the network, which could also include library content of indy promotions, documentaries, and regional wrestling content not acquired by WWE Network.

FloSports, coincidentally, received funding from WWE earlier this year, but that does not mean WWE has influence over decisions they make. FloSports originally launched as a vehicle to offer niche sports to hardcore fans in various amateur categories such as amateur wrestling, gymnastics, tennis, track, basketball, and martial arts. In effect, it turns out WWE invested in a streaming service that could drive up the price of what they’ll have to pay to attain rights to indy wrestling on WWE Network.

WWE has surveyed their fans in recent weeks about their level of interest in streaming independent wrestling on WWE Network, including a higher priced tier featuring non-WWE content. This is, in great part, due to knowledge that FloSports was making offers to various non-WWE pro wrestling companies domestically and internationally.

FloSports is determined to create a mega-streaming headquarters for non-WWE programming worldwide, including hiring a full time managing editor who will attend and produce original content at the major weekend events, including backstage interviews. Some well-known names in pro wrestling took notice of the job listing and applied. There is talk of other initiatives that would create a connection between some of the major indy groups in other ways.

PWTorch has reached out to FloSlam for confirmation on when they plan to announce details officially. PWTorch sources indicate the announcement is expected as soon as this afternoon.

Keller’s Analysis: This development, at least in the short-run, will create viable career options that didn’t exist before for pro wrestlers outside of WWE, some of whom would prefer to make a living on the indy scene in the U.S. and internationally. This is an opportunity for indy wrestling to step up and prove it can attract a wider national fanbase who will pay for the convenience and reliability of live streaming events on a platform bigger and more well-funded than any previously.

For years I’ve spoken and written about this possibility, including on a PWTorch Livecast with ex-WWE Creative Team member Matt McCarthy – imagining an economies-of-scale platform that could give indy companies a real chance to earn game-changing revenue by putting on events that attracts subscribers and repeat routine viewership. The iPPV market has been riddled with technical issues and has reached only a niche market. FloSports has the platform, including their new Apple TV and Roku apps, to take away any excuse pro wrestling fans have who are disgruntled with WWE and really like alternative products but found accessing them inconvenient.

The money FloSports can provide to indy groups will create more sustainable jobs for pro wrestlers outside of WWE. If WWE responds by trying to aggressively acquire content rights instead, which is a possibility, that will mean more funding for indy wrestling also. Without FloSports making offers to acquire content rights, WWE would have little incentive to offer strong financial deals. 

TNA attempted at its launch point a “weekly PPV service” with Jerry and Jeff Jarrett figuring “the Internet fan base” would support a $9.99 weekly PPV service. The numbers of customers were massively lower than the projections the Jarretts made, they lost a lot of money, and TNA eventually shifted to a more traditional business plan with national TV and monthly PPVs. FloSlam is betting the time is right to offer pro wrestling fans a chance to access live events every weekend on their TVs for a flat fee. They have the infrastructure in place technically, and are putting a lot of money on the line to make a big splash. They are moving from a 7,000 square foot headquarters to one ten times that size next year in Austin, Tex. due to the rapid growth and early success of the business.

If subscriptions end up very low and don’t grow, it might not last or might not have much impact, as eventually the revenue going to indy companies will be based on the actual subscriber base and viewership of the events. At the start, though, FloSports has the funding to bid more than WWE can justify for non-WWE wrestling content. If subscriptions are strong out of the gate and grow, FloSlam could end up being a legitimate game-changing platform that can create dozens of well paying jobs for pro wrestlers who didn’t have a viable option before when they had to piece together paydays from live events around the world based solely on ticket revenue or indy promoters with deep pockets.

WWE might not be thrilled they unwittingly invested in a streaming service that in essence will compete for streaming rights of non-WWE wrestling shows, but FloSlam’s success could help develop the next generation of indy stars who would otherwise not have gotten the seasoning outside of WWE or opportunity in NXT to become the next Daniel Bryan or Kevin Owens. As much as WWE values having their own feeder system and training center, it only boosts their future to have more companies developing the next generation of talent.

For pro wrestling fans, FloSlam looks to be the best opportunity to regularly see live non-WWE pro wrestling on a reliable, convenient platform for a reasonable price. For pro wrestlers, if FloSlam succeeds, it gives indy wrestlers more of a chance at sustainable full time careers and it gives WWE wrestlers negotiating leverage and more of them than ever a viable alternative to working for WWE full time – if the fan support ends up being there.

 

[RIPPA]

Woof - Keller is so deeply in the tank for FloSports it isn't funny

[Craig H]

$20?!

I'll pass.

[Casey]

Let's, hypothetically, say that FloSlam announces later today/this week that they'll have stuff from companies like PWG, ROH, CMLL, New Japan, UK indies, etc. available OnDemand and you can stream their weekly/monthly shows live, and all you have to pay is $20 a month.

That... sounds like a hell of a deal.

[Wyld Samurai]

After watching some absolutely horridly produced NWA-Smoky Mountain on one of the current roku apps for free I'd be inclined to pass due to fear of paying double for inferior quality production.

[Kevin Wilson]

That... doesn't sound like a big deal. I think Big Dave was right, not 'business changing' news, just news. Until it is up and running, and running properly, its just another idea that may never be fully realized. Especially at that price point.

[Matt D]

Yeah, so having read all of that text, Ellsworth signing feels like the big news of the day.

[hammerva]

Well given that you would have to pay $30 to get all of the hypothetical companies right now ($9.99 for ROH subscription, $9.99 for Highspots to watch older PWG, and $9.99 for New Japan World), $20 is a good deal if the quality is there.

 

[The Z]

10 minutes ago, Casey said:

Let's, hypothetically, say that FloSlam announces later today/this week that they'll have stuff from companies like PWG, ROH, CMLL, New Japan, UK indies, etc. available OnDemand and you can stream their weekly/monthly shows live, and all you have to pay is $20 a month.

That... sounds like a hell of a deal.

Yeah, depending on what's on there I think that's a very good price.

I may be in the minority, but I'm willing to pay a lot more money for Indies than I am for WWE. I've already been subscribed to several wrestling networks, incl. PROGRESS, Revolution Pro, ICW, wXw and the Highspots Network. Not all of them at the same time, but constantly switching.

Even if they only had EVOLVE, that would still be a good price. An EVOLVE show usually costs $14.95 and they do around 2 or 3 shows per month. If you get those for $20 per month now, that's already money saved, if you're an EVOLVE fan.

[JonnyLaw]

I admittedly do not know much about the economics behind independent wrestling, but $20 a month for all big shows split between several different groups makes it seem like Keller is being way too optimistic about the revenue this could bring in.  What are the subscription numbers like for NJ World, NWAClassics, and Highspots?

[Kevin Wilson]

3 minutes ago, JonnyLaw said:

I admittedly do not know much about the economics behind independent wrestling, but $20 a month for all big shows split between several different groups makes it seem like Keller is being way too optimistic about the revenue this could bring in.  What are the subscription numbers like for NJ World, NWAClassics, and Highspots?

Right, its a very very niche market. And we don't even know which promotions will be on there or how many events, so its too early to get excited. How many people are willing to pay $20 a month for some indy shows? Definitely some, but not enough to make this life changing news.

[John from Cincinnati]

$20/month? 

[Wyld Samurai]

I wonder if the NWA would make more money off their OnDemand if they partnered with the WWE when they go to the tiered plan. Offer the NWA library as an adjunct service for say $5/month. the NWA would take home say $2.50 per subscription and wouldn't have to deal with any of the production. I think with that added customer base they'd increase their profits immensely.

[Matt D]

WWE would never go for that though. It's a matter of control as much as anything else. 

[mattdangerously]

1 hour ago, Casey said:

Completely unrelated to this FloSlam stuff, but James Ellsworth is likely getting a WWE contract apparently. Because his t-shirt has been selling like a motherfucker. If you sort their shirts on the Shop website by Best Sellers, he's currently #3 - behind Rollins and Owens, but ahead of people like Cena, Styles, Goldberg and Reigns.

Anyone watch enough of his stuff yet to speak on how he is as a worker when he's not a jobber?  His current role in the WWE has a limited shelf life (like Colin Delaney and Barry Horowitz), but if he's capable of doing more (like Mikey Whipwreck), he could get a decent little run as a perpetual underdog.

[Casey]

Isn't the idea presented in Keller's write-up that WWE put out that survey with New Japan, ROH, CMLL, etc. listed was because they knew FloSlam was trying to get these companies to sign on for their streaming service? Or am I just reading into that part and seeing what I want to see? That's what it sounded like to me, and I could definitely see New Japan agreeing to partner with FloSlam over WWE. I'm sure some of these promotions would go with the Network, but I'm not sure all of them would.

It's interesting and fun to think about, at least.

[Wyld Samurai]

3 minutes ago, mattdangerously said:

Anyone watch enough of his stuff yet to speak on how he is as a worker when he's not a jobber?  His current role in the WWE has a limited shelf life (like Colin Delaney and Barry Horowitz), but if he's capable of doing more (like Mikey Whipwreck), he could get a decent little run as a perpetual underdog.

His super kick last week was the best I've seen since Chris Adams.

[RIPPA]

The way Keller is writing the story (and since he is fawning over them greatly, he clearly has some sort of connection to FloSlam) is that FloSlam is trying to swoop in and sign deals with the same companies that the WWE is talking too.

I think the WWE put money into them in the hopes of using them for what the survey said but FloSlam is pulling an end around on the WWE and just trying to do it on their own

[Matt D]

The way Keller is writing the story (and since he is fawning over them greatly, he clearly has some sort of connection to FloSlam) is that FloSlam is trying to swoop in and sign deals with the same companies that the WWE is talking too.

I think the WWE put money into them in the hopes of using them for what the survey said but FloSlam is pulling an end around on the WWE and just trying to do it on their own

If that's the case, then Vince is going to do many, many petty and amusing things.

[Charlie M.]

Maybe Vince has a red button in his office that releases the entire tape library?

[RIPPA]

Well, again, this is totally a Wade Keller agenda thing.

To be all BIG NEWS~! and that it is all THIS COMPANY IS GONNA TRY TO RUN AGAINST THE WWE SORTA BUT HASN'T SIGNED ANY DEALS BUT IT IS THE GREATEST THING FOR THE WORKERS EVER!!! GIVE THEM YOUR $20 A MONTH!!!! is such a bullshit thing to do.