Smackdown is a continuing testimony to The Miz's greatness

[ChrisM]

Just a year ago, I was wishing future endeavorment upon Miz and the Usos, and stifled a yawn whenever Heath Slater showed up. Now they're three of my favorite things in all of wrestling. 

I'm strangely intrigued by this Curt Hawkins thing. I know I'm probably alone there, though. 

 

[Go2Sleep]

10 hours ago, ChrisM said:

Just a year ago, I was wishing future endeavorment upon Miz and the Usos, and stifled a yawn whenever Heath Slater showed up. Now they're three of my favorite things in all of wrestling. 

I'm strangely intrigued by this Curt Hawkins thing. I know I'm probably alone there, though. 

 

I think people need to start recognizing the greatness of Ryan Ward. It can't be a coincidence that NXT stopped being the most efficiently-written WWE umbrella show where every character mattered and SD picked up that designation once he changed shows.

[Charlie M.]

Just based on some of the stuff they tweet, I think Road Dogg and Jimmy Jacobs have a big hand in writing in Smackdown too.

[Craig H]

My goodness, Bryan Alvarez is a giant fucking moron. I've never heard someone not understand something so easy to understand. Nearly everything on SDL makes sense and every week, Alvarez comments on how he doesn't get it. So stupid. I think he's watched so much bad wrestling that he doesn't know good wrestling when he sees it. 

[Niners Fan in CT]

I think Meltzer and Alvarez both need a break from WWE.  They aren't even pretending to be objective anymore. I realize RAW has had plenty of issues but to act like SDL is the same shit, come on. Totally different shows and directions.  Every character on SDL matters.

[Nice Guy Eddie]

16 hours ago, zev said:

Rollins brings back J&J Security. Owens counters with the Quebecers. Rollins insists on a 6 man match. Owens says fine but one of the Rogeaus is retired so his "nephew" will take his place. Out comes Bobby Roode.

Go.

That sounds...

 

[Nice Guy Eddie]

4 hours ago, Charlie M. said:

Just based on some of the stuff they tweet, I think Road Dogg and Jimmy Jacobs have a big hand in writing in Smackdown too.

I had figured Jimmy Jacobs was involved in Smackdown, being a wrestler and not a failed, hack comedy writer. 

[RIPPA]

 

[Craig H]

Yeah, fwiw, Meltzer has been very complimentary of SDL, Alvarez hasn't. 

[Charlie M.]

The only reasonable criticism of the storyline to me is the fact that the right outcome (babyface overcomes the heel) is the wrong outcome in terms of what's best for the show (Miz continuing on his run and putting over someone fresh). Smackdown's earned enough of my trust in the last couple months to wait and see what they have planned.

A lot of people still have a problem with Dolph but the crowd is with him. Maybe they want to move Miz up to a bigger program with Orton or Ambrose or Cena?

[NikoBaltimore]

It's amazing the crowd's with him at all considering his losing streak.  I guess Miz's cheating maintains the sympathy they have for him.  But that doesn't explain stuff like the Main Event taping where he lost to Apollo Crews clean as a sheet.

[tbarrie]

18 minutes ago, Charlie M. said:

The only reasonable criticism of the storyline to me is the fact that the right outcome (babyface overcomes the heel) is the wrong outcome in terms of what's best for the show (Miz continuing on his run and putting over someone fresh).

They had the same problem with AJ vs Cena, and went with what's best long-term, for what it's worth.

[Charlie M.]

1 minute ago, NickMD said:

It's amazing the crowd's with him at all considering his losing streak.  I guess Miz's cheating maintains the sympathy they have for him.  But that doesn't explain stuff like the Main Event taping where he lost to Apollo Crews clean as a sheet.

Crews beat Breeze on Main Event, not Ziggler.

[NikoBaltimore]

Whoops, I heard he beat Ziggler, guess I was misinformed.

But I wouldn't be surprised if that did happen.

[Niners Fan in CT]

I'm not a big fan of Dolph either but I think  "I don't like the guy" is a poor criticism.  The story they've told is miles above anything that's going on with RAW right now.

[bink_winkleman]

Caught up on both Raw and Smackdown tonight.

As much as Raw drags, it has NOTHING nearly as shitty and time consuming as the Orton/Bray feud. Feel like I spent more time watching that garbage in fast forward than actually watching the show. Orton is such a drag on such an otherwise good show.

That fucking "what's behind the door segment" was a million times cheesier and low-rent than the old Kevin Sullivan/Hogan stuff.

[Wyld Samurai]

I haven't finished Smackdown yet because of the Bray / Orton stuff. 

[MORELOCK]

It isn't Orton's fault the feud is unwatchable - Bray has been dead in the water for a very long time now. There's no reason for anyone to think he poses any kind of threat. 

[Kyuubi]

14 hours ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

I'm not a big fan of Dolph either but I think  "I don't like the guy" is a poor criticism.  The story they've told is miles above anything that's going on with RAW right now.

Legitimate criticism of Dolph Ziggler that goes beyond, "I don't like the guy?"

Okay. I'll start with ring work. Dolph's offense is poorly put together. You can't structure anything out of it. Sure, dude moves at the speed of Usain Bolt on meth in the ring, but what he creates out of his momentum is just so hectic and poorly put together. His matches are cobbled together with steady mat work that you expect out of a Kent State champion mat wrestler, something he does not keep up. Throughout his matches, he subsequently drops the mat work and grappling and favors this running and jumping at the opponent at full speed without rhyme or reason. Then you get his overselling, which I sincerely believe that he thinks is what makes so entertaining. I have watched Jack Evans oversell. I have seen guys doing the most unlikely sells. This dude bumps like he is being hit with a car over every little thing. Guy shrugs off his Zig-Zag, Ziggler does 2 back rolls and flops. Guy throws Zigglers into the apron, dude does the Shawn Michaels corner sell and sometimes falls off the apron. Ziggler's bumps makes it seem that he is beating himself up all the time instead of the opponent. He flops around like a fish because he thinks it looks cool and he is putting the other guy over when it is the opposite effect: he is making the match look ridiculous. His matches are poorly paced most of the time because he has two very contrasting styles that he tries to fit in, and outright predictable. His best matches have been against Rey Mysterio, Daniel Bryan, Survivor Series match, and as of late the Miz and it had nothing to do with him as a wrestler or his performance.

Then his character. He is a Shawn Michaels rip-off without none of the arsenal and general stage presence. As much as I shit on the Miz for being utterly mediocre in the ring most of the time, at least the Miz has his own character. At least the Miz has always been original and always developed. The Miz went from green upstart with attitude, to LA dudebro with bad pants, to out to prove the fans wrong WWE original, to Hollywood Star. Dolph is this condescending prick that feels the need to put down people as a means of "motivating them." I remember the promo he cut on AJ Lee where he pretty much slut shames her, body shames her, and calls her the cute girl next girl that means nothing in the end. Somehow this demeaning ass promo is what made AJ Lee allign with him. And he keeps doing these kinds of promos as a means to judge people(he has done a few on the Miz which did not take because Dolph is nowhere near as good as him at promos). It is one thing when Ric Flair cut one of these "hold up the mirror" promos on Carlito. But who the fuck is Dolph Ziggler to say anything about anyone? He is the perennial heat killer. It's one thing to be the best and say shit about how everyone else is, but Dolph is the car stuck in a ditch spinning it's wheels really fast telling other cars to try as hard as him.

[HumanChessgame]

9 minutes ago, Kyuubi said:

Legitimate criticism of Dolph Ziggler that goes beyond, "I don't like the guy?"

Okay. I'll start with ring work. Dolph's offense is poorly put together. You can't structure anything out of it. Sure, dude moves at the speed of Usain Bolt on meth in the ring, but what he creates out of his momentum is just so hectic and poorly put together. His matches are cobbled together with steady mat work that you expect out of a Kent State champion mat wrestler, something he does not keep up. Throughout his matches, he subsequently drops the mat work and grappling and favors this running and jumping at the opponent at full speed without rhyme or reason. Then you get his overselling, which I sincerely believe that he thinks is what makes so entertaining. I have watched Jack Evans oversell. I have seen guys doing the most unlikely sells. This dude bumps like he is being hit with a car over every little thing. Guy shrugs off his Zig-Zag, Ziggler does 2 back rolls and flops. Guy throws Zigglers into the apron, dude does the Shawn Michaels corner sell and sometimes falls off the apron. Ziggler's bumps makes it seem that he is beating himself up all the time instead of the opponent. He flops around like a fish because he thinks it looks cool and he is putting the other guy over when it is the opposite effect: he is making the match look ridiculous. His matches are poorly paced most of the time because he has two very contrasting styles that he tries to fit in, and outright predictable. His best matches have been against Rey Mysterio, Daniel Bryan, Survivor Series match, and as of late the Miz and it had nothing to do with him as a wrestler or his performance.

Then his character. He is a Shawn Michaels rip-off without none of the arsenal and general stage presence. As much as I shit on the Miz for being utterly mediocre in the ring most of the time, at least the Miz has his own character. At least the Miz has always been original and always developed. The Miz went from green upstart with attitude, to LA dudebro with bad pants, to out to prove the fans wrong WWE original, to Hollywood Star. Dolph is this condescending prick that feels the need to put down people as a means of "motivating them." I remember the promo he cut on AJ Lee where he pretty much slut shames her, body shames her, and calls her the cute girl next girl that means nothing in the end. Somehow this demeaning ass promo is what made AJ Lee allign with him. And he keeps doing these kinds of promos as a means to judge people(he has done a few on the Miz which did not take because Dolph is nowhere near as good as him at promos). It is one thing when Ric Flair cut one of these "hold up the mirror" promos on Carlito. But who the fuck is Dolph Ziggler to say anything about anyone? He is the perennial heat killer. It's one thing to be the best and say shit about how everyone else is, but Dolph is the car stuck in a ditch spinning it's wheels really fast telling other cars to try as hard as him.

I don't completely agree with your first paragraph but do think you have some points there.  The second part is right, but I think that's an issue with the WWE writing and booking team in general rather than Dolph himself.  The angles and character work he's been given have been every bit as inconsistent as his pushes and win/loss records.  Miz has had a well defined and consistent character for years now while Dolph's personality and gear are tweaked on a regular basis, never giving him an actual character to work on developing further.  This speaks to a bigger issue the writers have had with a lack of consistency and follow through with lots of wrestlers. Their gimmicks get tweaked every so often to the point where no one knows what they're really supposed to make of them or what their motivation or personality is supposed to be.

[jstout]

Dolph's never had the charisma to pull off his character. Nobody's had a reason to care for him for years, so why should they care for him now? 

[StretchMediatedHypertrophy]

 

I remember the Dolph Ziggler who got a believable near fall out of a fireman's carry on the mat against Kofi Kingston.

[Go2Sleep]

I think Dolph's been pretty miscast for most of his career. He's perfectly fine as an underdog babyface, but he's never been convincing as an arrogant heel, and even less so when he tries to spin his heel act as a face. It's no surprise he's coming off much better now when his character is based on his insecurities and self-doubt that people would like to see him overcome.

[bink_winkleman]

19 hours ago, MORELOCK said:

It isn't Orton's fault the feud is unwatchable - Bray has been dead in the water for a very long time now. There's no reason for anyone to think he poses any kind of threat. 

Well, I've always found Orton unwatchable, but in no way disagree with those thoughts on Bray.