SEPT 2016 WRESTLING DISCUSSION

[Dog]

I can't find the "Dislike this" button.

[Matt D]

There was a lot of discussion back during Punk vs Brock how unbelievable it was that Punk could possibly be any threat to Brock. Most of that talk was before the match, not after. Wrestling is about illusion. It's about suspension of disbelief and one way to do that is to establish meaning and relevance within a shared universe over time. The Cobra can be a completely believable finisher if it's built that way. If Santino didn't execute it with complete conviction and if it wasn't sold by his opponents with the same, that wouldn't have mattered. Look does matter, as it makes the challenge easier, but you can establish someone like Sabre, Jr. as a dangerous world beater. It comes down to presentation and execution over time. In the context of the CWC, he's missing that time component. 

[(BP)]

ZSJ is absolutely not my pick for this, but with all of the fresh talent they have right now they need to pick a guy, get his submission finisher over as inescapable death, and have them tap Brock out with it. Joe would be the obvious choice, but I don't know if giving that rub to someone in the back half of their career is wise. My larger point is if they can get grappling and the notion of technicians being dangerous over that goes a long way to assisting suspension of disbelief since they're swarming with smaller guys now. 

[BurningBeard]

Nobody is tapping Brock out ever. I think the fact he ended the streak means he's pretty much un-fuck-withable for damn near everyone til his career is done

[AxB]

I think he's at the Undertaker level, where he only loses to who he chooses. But he'll have to choose someone sooner or later.

[Tromatagon]

You guys need to stop acting like it's gonna be anyone but Roman Reigns

[Matt D]

It should have been Roman last year. That was the entire point of pushing Brock in the first place. The fans were turning around in that match because it was so good and the performances were so good. 

[RIPPA]

It's gonna be Big Cass and I will no longer be able to explain my laughter

[Ace]

Have we reached the point of diminishing returns with Brock yet?

 

[Wyld Samurai]

Brock vs Roman was so good last year because Roman just acted like a human super ball.

[ivpvideos]

Suplex City has ruined Brock to me. The match at Mania was brutal with the counter and how terrible it was built around how many suplexes he could throw. 

[Zakk_Sabbath]

Joe is probably too old for the Brock rub, but then again, he's about the same age Brock was when they gave him the streak. It pretty much still, 3 years later, has to be Roman unless Cass gets the Diesel push.

[BurningBeard]

Remember when Scott Steiner did nothing but suplexes to Triple H in 2003 and got vilified for it and booed out of the building? #suplexcity

[Zakk_Sabbath]

I think that was also a heavy anti-WCW bias working against him though, combined with the fact that he was super blown up the whole time, gassed out of his mind, and falling all over the place because he was injured. Plus, they only gave Shawn a 2 or 3 week run with the WHC, which was unsatisfying, and I think the majority of people wanted an RVD or a Booker in there with HHH, or for Kane to get his revenge post unmasking. I don't disagree with you at all, but I'm just saying those matches/that program had way more working against it than too many suplexes. I mean, there was a bodybuilding pose competition in the lead up. Plus Smackdown was tearing it up in-ring, so i could see a crowd getting a little shitty that this is what Raw had to offer.

[Matt D]

It worked against Cena the first time because it was so shocking and it's not TOO bad in the triple threat matches because the nature of those allows for some level of recovery but it's as far away as "bestowing meaning upon moves" as possible.

[Technico Support]

Seriously believing Joe has any chance of being booked to beat Brock is the most inside the smark bubble shit ever.  Unless Joe gets gastric bypass, a TRT exemption and some jheri curl,OR Vince's torn quad has complications causing his timely demise, it's not happening.

[Ace]

It was working with Reigns too. Reigns kept getting up and asking for more. If they'd put Brock over there, and then Reigns taking the belt at SummerSlam, it could've worked. But they had to make use of Rollins.

 

 

 

[Zakk_Sabbath]

4 minutes ago, Technico Support said:

Seriously believing Joe has any chance of being booked to beat Brock is the most inside the smark bubble shit ever.  Unless Joe gets gastric bypass, a TRT exemption and some jheri curl,OR Vince's torn quad has complications causing his timely demise, it's not happening.

A year ago I'd agree, but we now live in a world where Kevin Owens is WWE champion 

[Infinit]

Isn't the right answer Chad Gable?

[(BP)]

4 minutes ago, Infinit said:

Isn't the right answer Chad Gable?

I'm sure he's ready and willing.

They need to solve their Brock problem ASAP to avoid anyone else having to sacrifice their skull, and he'd probably have another MOTY contender with Roman.

But I don't think they should wait much longer for Cena to put over Roman either. They probably think they have time, but windows for money matches have closed abruptly before. 

[JohnnyJ]

Brock had the build up of a Hogan era heel. Everything was leading to Roman winning triumphantly. Then the backlash started and WWE backed away from crowning Roman. At the same time WWE realized they had created a special attraction and wanted to preserve Lesnars drawing power.

What if Andre convincingly beat Hogan at Manias 3 and 4 and showed up a few times a year  to mow down a top face. That's Lesnar right now.  

He's run down everyone who matters with no comeuppance.  He devalues those wrestlers and  the championships they hold.

Everytime Rollins would walk out with the title during his run all I could think was how adorable that was but Brock would break him in half in about ten seconds.

Whenever Ambrose proudly held the championship, all I could see was someone who just took his licks from Brock and would lose again if Brock was given an opportunity. 

It's a major problem they are in no hurry to solve.

[Matt D]

Obviously the only comeback story that's epic enough to work is Bryan.

I'm kidding!

[Tromatagon]

"We're pretty sure you want to die in the ring, Bryan, so we're going to respect your wishes."

[SirSmUgly]

10 hours ago, MORELOCK said:

Will do. Sorry I left out that particular specification - I still think it's ridiculous to say that ZSJ is underrated on this board. My entire perception of how overhyped ZSJ is comes from this board - and posters like you who act like anyone saying he isn't the greatest wrestler in the world must be underrating him. People are allowed to disagree with your opinion about ZSJ without being accused of shitposting.

Uh, I never act like that. You are creating strawmen in your head that you can rail against.

In fact, the very post you quoted is one in which I acknowledge the criticisms and say that it is fair to critique the holes in ZSJ's game. 

I love talking wrestling with most anyone, but it is hard to have a useful discussion with someone who ignores what I write in order to make his or her argument.

Re: Brock, I just desperately want him to lose at this point. They could have Kane beat him to avenge the Undertaker, and I'd irrationally be like, "Well, at least Brock lost clean!"

[Wyld Samurai]

Brock is pretty much Andre at this point. A special attraction. I'd have him do 2 vs 1 matches, and for the love of God get Heyman some other people to manage. What an absolute waste of talent.