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SEPT 2016 WRESTLING DISCUSSION


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42 minutes ago, MORELOCK said:

I don't think many are outright shitting on ZSJ, it's just that many on this board oversell him as a worker and claim him to be better than he is - so we're more likely to look for the very real and present flaws in his game (that have absolutely nothing to do with his look.) Just look at the CWC thread - because people dared to find holes in his game someone just called him "underrated," which seems ridiculous to me. 

What seems ridiculous to me is that you took that out of context. I said that he's underrated on this board, which I think is perfectly fair and does not necessarily run counter to the idea that he also has holes in his game. On this board, people are arguing that Sabre doesn't sell (when as a couple posters pointed out, he sells stoically mixed in with selling that he's trying to think out his next counter), that his body shape and mass means that he can't possibly do damage to another worker realistically, etc.

I know that you shit post with regularity, so I'm not expecting much from you, but if you're going to disagree with me, at least present my argument as I made it. 

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I just think ZSJ is just boring. All his moves don't seem to mean anything. He's like a robot out there. 

This isn't a "WWE style" thing. It's a "does this make sense and is it entertaining?" thing. When I see a ZSJ match he almost works like a NXT women's wrestler that's still too green for TV but a body is needed for the division so they just run through their Developmental training bumps for TV purposes. 

Gallagher, on the other hand... is a far more polished individual. He's entertaining, he can convey emotion and can get an opponent mad at him - which brings the opponent into the match. His offense actually looks like ita doing something, and his ode to WoS doesn't seem out of place at all. He's the picture perfect British wrestler. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he really could hook in the ring coming from the Snake Pit.

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20 hours ago, clintthecrippler said:

So then which current British indy wrestler is Happy Mondays?

And on the topic of guys I don't get, Marty Scurll is probably at the top of mine. Every time I have watched a hyped Scurll match by the end of it I was more impressed with his opponent's performance than his. I am still not seeing anything he brings to the table that makes him a guy worth flying over to the States.

You watched his match with Hero on the Vader Rev Pro show? Sure, Hero was the more impressive of the two but I thought that was the best I've seen of Scurll. Probably in my top 3 matches of the year from what I've seen. His matches with Thatcher were also very good, but again he's second best in those too. He's a guy that can be excellent in a complementary role but when he has to lead a match, it often times struggles. For instance, his match against Mandrews at PWG Prince. The thing went on for-fucking-ever and was a mess. 

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I've seen matches against Sabre Jr. and Ospreay from RevPro, the Ospreay match from WrestleCon, his BOLA 2015 appearance, and the Axel Dieter I Quit match.

As another poster earlier said, I don't think he's necessarily BAD. I just have yet from the sampling I've viewed said to myself "I want to watch another Marty Scurll match", or get excited that he is on the other end of a match being hyped as an "indy dream match."

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People should watch all of the Terry/Dory tags on the japanese channels that pop up, like:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGL-jYHvWwezKPWSVhJW2lQ/videos

Maybe not the ones with Brody but all the others. It's astonishing how good a seller Terry Funk is. To put it into perspective, he was the first american super-babyface in Japan, and he managed that while showing a certain vulnerability that babyfaces there weren't allowed to show. In fact, he changed the entire paradigm through such effective selling. It's staggering to consider. He turned an entire cultural norm upon its head and by doing so was able to subvert ANOTHER cultural norm, all because he was so good at a skill that was thoroughly underutilized in that country, one that is the very heart of prowrestling.

On the GWE poll, he was in my top 5, and that he wasn't higher was a combination of a footage issue and the fact I held my 1-3 in such, such high regard.

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On 9/17/2016 at 6:58 AM, Roman said:

Cornette on how he would have booked Punk in UFC. It's... certainly interesting:
 

 

 

Why do people pay attention to Cornette's advice on booking? Should we instead ask somebody who was successful?

 

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I had the same problems with Sabre a lot of people had. Then last night I saw him live and have a match against Tarik, a local guy, for Smash Wrestling that blew away my expectations. So now he can do no wrong. Gallagher had a great match against Psycho Mike too but Sabre-Tarik is my live MOTY so far.

The moral of the story is: live wrestling is the best.

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I am watching some random Nitros, and Chigusa Nagayo (as Zero) comes down to ringside. Its funny that I was watching WCW during this time period and I have no memory whatsoever of Joshi wrestlers appearing on Nitro. I wasn't into the puro scene at the time so its not like I would have popped seeing her, its just strange to watch it back now and see they use one of the more popular Joshi wrestlers in history with face paint without acknowledging who she was. I would just dismiss this as WCW being WCW but I don't know whose decision it was so that wouldn't be fair.

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12 hours ago, Smelly McUgly said:

What seems ridiculous to me is that you took that out of context. I said that he's underrated on this board, which I think is perfectly fair and does not necessarily run counter to the idea that he also has holes in his game. On this board, people are arguing that Sabre doesn't sell (when as a couple posters pointed out, he sells stoically mixed in with selling that he's trying to think out his next counter), that his body shape and mass means that he can't possibly do damage to another worker realistically, etc.

I know that you shit post with regularity, so I'm not expecting much from you, but if you're going to disagree with me, at least present my argument as I made it. 

Will do. Sorry I left out that particular specification - I still think it's ridiculous to say that ZSJ is underrated on this board. My entire perception of how overhyped ZSJ is comes from this board - and posters like you who act like anyone saying he isn't the greatest wrestler in the world must be underrating him. People are allowed to disagree with your opinion about ZSJ without being accused of shitposting.

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On 9/16/2016 at 4:39 PM, Niners Fan in CT said:

Apologies @Technico Support your post was only a couple up from mine.

 

On 9/16/2016 at 4:34 PM, Niners Fan in CT said:

Fuck I liked when he beat the hell out of beefcake.

Disagree whoever it was on Lince Dorado. I thought he was very entertaining, I like him.

Oh yeah, man.  I thought he was great.  My only point is that WWE has a very narrow focus and are very unimaginative, and it's likely they can only pay attention to one masked luchador at a time.  They'll choose Metalik over Dorado.

 

On 9/17/2016 at 8:35 PM, paintedbynumbers said:

I think a lot of ZSJ   has to do with who he is working. The match with Dar should have been better considering they work each other often.  If you want to see some good ZSJ   I recommend his WXW collection on the Highspots network.  Good stuff with Generico, Claudio, Danielson, and Hero.    It's hard to have a bad match with the guys I mentioned but it is clear that Zack holds his own with them.  His Rev Pro stuff is also worth seeing if you have the time.

So you're saying he's better when he's in the ring with best-in-class dudes.  So was Lex Luger.

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Zack vs Pete Dunne from TXW in 2014 is the best match I've ever seen live, so I'm very much a ZSJ backer. I do think he's best in vicious bully mode (saw him have a great match of that ilk against Mandrews), but his evenly-matched arse-kicking contests with Tommy End are also really fun to watch. There's a really fun match in AAW from June against Gargano (where Sabre suddenly flicks a switch half way through and it goes from playful exhibition to Sabre torturing Gargano) that shows that he can also work a good match with a lesser opponent.

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The thing with Sabre is, number one you shouldn't be Zack Sabre Jr when there was no Zack Sabre Sr. Two, he's 29 and is still built like a gangly teenager, which kind of implies he'll never fill out... and wrestlers generally should look like they could beat somebody up. Those wrestlers who don't look like they could beat somebody up, there's specific ways of working that play into that (Rockstar Spud is good at one type of that; Mandrews is good at another type of it; 1-2-3 Kid was good at it in away X-Pac wasn't). Also, he's a Southerner. Jack Gallagher is credible in that World of Sport style because he's from Wigan, Lancashire. Sabre lacks that legitimacy.

Long story short, you should work like you look. And his work implies a level of toughness he can't physically project.

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