SEPT 2016 WRESTLING DISCUSSION

[evilwaldo]

1 hour ago, DTTW said:

Didn't he already send that message out multiple times? Hogan, Flair, Dusty, every other promotion that opposed him being dead, etc.

Yeah but you have to keep doing it to show you are the top dog.  Vince has, for lack of a better term, a monopoly on wrestling in the US.  You have to defend every inch of that turf and not let anyone get too big.

1 hour ago, Go2Sleep said:

Was LU and its 100k weekly viewers really on Vince's radar to the point he needed to send a message to them? I guess I could see them going after AAA since they seemed to want to punch NJ in the dick during that time frame as well. Still seems like a stretch, though, and it doesn't explain why Alberto would want to go back.

AAA is pretty big in Latin America, a market the WWE cannot break into in a major way.  When they come wiggling their way onto Vince's turf he has to respond.  

They have met with AAA and LU already.  It has been mentioned more than a few times.

For Alberto, it comes down to money.  WWE pays the best.

[Tromatagon]

WWE does fine in Mexico, but yeah they did meet with both AAA and LU and I think it was CWC related because that story broke right before that shit got announced.

[evilwaldo]

One thing to remember about LU is the backers.  El Rey may be small but the names behind LU make up sit up and take notice.

[joseph2112]

I feel like they saw a Latino act that was heating up and what better way to make a star then to steal one, straight out of the 80's playbook. 

As far as competition, even as near back as 4 years and the old PPV model, you could make the case that any other company running PPV could be competition. You could even say UFC was something because let's face it, if TNA, WWE and UFC all had PPV's in one month, many people might have to choose one or the other. Now it's 10 bucks a month and free tv. There really is no monetary commitment. 

In other words, I strongly believe the WWE is in competition with itself and that is it. 

[Matt D]

Trying to remember the newz. Isn't the deal that Del Rio is a Vince guy and not a HHH guy? Vince gets weird for people who leave on their own volition. He has for years. I imagine Ryback gets a big shot at some point if he wants it, for instance.

[Charlie M.]

At the time, LU was possibly going to be getting a major TV deal in Mexico, right? Or at least that was the plan. I'm sure that was on WWE's radar.

[Nice Guy Eddie]

5 hours ago, Technico Support said:

Oh ADR.  Never heard the expression, "want an investment sure to lose money?  Open a restaurant."  Between the Paige relationship and this, 2016 is a banner year for bad decisions.

I take it all back if "open a restaurant" means he's buying into a franchise and Paige is working there for free.

A Mexican-English fusion restaurant?

[MapRef41N93W]

I know I shouldn't argue with a good thing, but is there any kayfabe justification for WWE having a cruiserweight division?

The last few years they've had guys who were around or below (sometimes well below) 205 lbs. have major success without a dedicated division: CM Punk was world champion, Daniel Bryan was world champion, Seth Rollins was NXT and world champion, Finn Balor was NXT and Universal champion, Sami Zayn was NXT champion and has beaten the current Universal champion recently, Neville was NXT champion, Kalisto (maybe the smallest guy on the roster) beat a heavyweight for the US championship, and of course AJ Styles is world champion now.

So there can't be any justification in terms of competitiveness. And that's actually kind of a problem, since it implies that the cruiserweight division is a cordoned-off area for the smaller wrestlers who can't hang with everyone else.

And even if the kayfabe reason was to give the fans a different style of match, that still wouldn't make sense. Not when Finn Balor vs. Seth Rollins could be a main event feud, and meanwhile the cruiserweights are bringing you the low-flying likes of Brian Kendrick, Akira Tozawa, Jack Gallagher, and Noam Dar.

It kinda makes me wish they'd set the cruiserweight limit at 185 rather than 205. Then all the pre-cruiserweight-division wresters I mentioned above except Kalisto would be solidly above the limit, and the competitiveness justification could make sense. Most of the guys they've signed would still make the cut--TJP, Metalik, Kendrick, Gallagher, Tozawa, Dar, Johnny Gargano, Rich Swann, and Lince Dorado definitely would. I think Cedric Alexander would be the only exception, since he weighed in for the CWC at 200 and probably can't get much lighter. Most of the big names for the tournament still would have worked though... except Alejandro Saez, so never mind, this was a bad idea.

[Peck]

5 hours ago, Josh Mann said:

Vince Russo is a shitty writer who has killed more shows than Ted McGinley, but I just wish him to not do said writing anymore, not murdered. 

#HackLivesMatter

Speaking of...

Jefferson D'Arcy or Steve Rhoades?

[Niners Fan in CT]

1 hour ago, Peck said:

Speaking of...

Jefferson D'Arcy or Steve Rhoades?

Easily Jefferson.

[mattdangerously]

1 hour ago, Peck said:

Speaking of...

Jefferson D'Arcy or Steve Rhoades?

Jefferson D'Arcy, all the way.

[mattdangerously]

7 hours ago, Technico Support said:

Oh ADR.  Never heard the expression, "want an investment sure to lose money?  Open a restaurant."  Between the Paige relationship and this, 2016 is a banner year for bad decisions.

He's balls-deep in a hot, 20-something English chick.  Poor guy.

[Curt McGirt]

8 hours ago, Technico Support said:

Oh ADR.  Never heard the expression, "want an investment sure to lose money?  Open a restaurant."  Between the Paige relationship and this, 2016 is a banner year for bad decisions.

I take it all back if "open a restaurant" means he's buying into a franchise and Paige is working there for free.

Good lord, you're right. I just had a flashback to reading Anthony Bourdain's Kitchen Confidential. Alberto is fucked.

[piranesi]

1 hour ago, mattdangerously said:

Jefferson D'Arcy, all the way.

Bullshit. You guys are all overlooking that before he was Steve Rhoades Steve Rhoades was the crafty adult neighbor dating the single mom of child con-artist Jason Bateman and foiling his horrible plots in the single greatest television show ever made:

 

Literally the greatest t.v. show ever made.  This show came out hen I was in the 7th grade and I bought the novelization in the weekly reader. I have never loved anything as much as I loved this t.v. show for the 4 weeks or so that it was on the air.

I will never feel passion like that again. 

Seriously, though, this was an astoundingly cynical show for network prime time in 1984. It seems more like a Fox show in 1989 or something. Which makes sense as it was created by the two guys who would go on to create MARRIED...WITH CHILDREN three years later.

It's also like a prototype of Monday Night Wars booking.  You tuned in each week to see who get the upper hand and who take the beating, Bateman or Steve Rhoades. And you never knew until the twist at the end. 

From the wiki page: on the infamous "Dregs of Humanity" two parter:

Spoiler

"The Dregs of Humanity" episode

A notable episode was a two-parter entitled "The Dregs of Humanity".^[1] In the first half of the episode, Eli loses the school's money that had been trusted to Matt for hiring a band for a school dance. To cover the loss, Matthew crafts the rise and fall of a band—The Dregs of Humanity—and acts as their manager. The fictitious band, which actually consisted of four skeletons stolen from the biology lab (and controlled by strings with a smoke machine to cover them up), is a little too successful and Matthew soon finds himself agreeing to allow Norman an interview with the band for Music Press magazine, figuring that if the truth ever comes out, Norman will be humiliated.^[2] The interview only fuels the Dregs' popularity, and this sets up the cliffhanger: the Palladium calls and offers a $20,000 gig for the Dregs. While heretofore willing to let the Dregs retire, the money is too enticing and Matt agrees to the gig.

The second installment of the two part episode was scheduled to air the following week, but was preempted by a speech by then-President Reagan.^[2]

In the second part of the episode, Matthew is scrambling to explain why The Dregs failed to show up to a sold-out concert. To make matters worse, Norman is starting to suspect that the band doesn't exist and Matthew gets sued. He finally has the brilliant idea to send the "band" to a watery grave by concocting a story that the "band" drove off a cliff into the ocean. In a later episode, it is revealed that the fake band was inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.^[2]

IS THAT NOT INSANE?????

And STEVE RHOADES WAS PART OF IT YOU FOOLS!!!!!

[evilwaldo]

4 hours ago, Matt D said:

Trying to remember the newz. Isn't the deal that Del Rio is a Vince guy and not a HHH guy? Vince gets weird for people who leave on their own volition. He has for years. I imagine Ryback gets a big shot at some point if he wants it, for instance.

If you are close with Vince and on good terms the door is never closed.  He is a surprisingly loyal person to individuals and cares about them.  

[mattdangerously]

19 hours ago, piranesi said:

Bullshit. You guys are all overlooking that before he was Steve Rhoades Steve Rhoades was the crafty adult neighbor dating the single mom of child con-artist Jason Bateman and foiling his horrible plots in the single greatest television show ever made:

 

Literally the greatest t.v. show ever made.  This show came out hen I was in the 7th grade and I bought the novelization in the weekly reader. I have never loved anything as much as I loved this t.v. show for the 4 weeks or so that it was on the air.

I will never feel passion like that again. 

Seriously, though, this was an astoundingly cynical show for network prime time in 1984. It seems more like a Fox show in 1989 or something. Which makes sense as it was created by the two guys who would go on to create MARRIED...WITH CHILDREN three years later.

It's also like a prototype of Monday Night Wars booking.  You tuned in each week to see who get the upper hand and who take the beating, Bateman or Steve Rhoades. And you never knew until the twist at the end. 

From the wiki page: on the infamous "Dregs of Humanity" two parter:

  Reveal hidden contents

"The Dregs of Humanity" episode

A notable episode was a two-parter entitled "The Dregs of Humanity".^[1] In the first half of the episode, Eli loses the school's money that had been trusted to Matt for hiring a band for a school dance. To cover the loss, Matthew crafts the rise and fall of a band—The Dregs of Humanity—and acts as their manager. The fictitious band, which actually consisted of four skeletons stolen from the biology lab (and controlled by strings with a smoke machine to cover them up), is a little too successful and Matthew soon finds himself agreeing to allow Norman an interview with the band for Music Press magazine, figuring that if the truth ever comes out, Norman will be humiliated.^[2] The interview only fuels the Dregs' popularity, and this sets up the cliffhanger: the Palladium calls and offers a $20,000 gig for the Dregs. While heretofore willing to let the Dregs retire, the money is too enticing and Matt agrees to the gig.

The second installment of the two part episode was scheduled to air the following week, but was preempted by a speech by then-President Reagan.^[2]

In the second part of the episode, Matthew is scrambling to explain why The Dregs failed to show up to a sold-out concert. To make matters worse, Norman is starting to suspect that the band doesn't exist and Matthew gets sued. He finally has the brilliant idea to send the "band" to a watery grave by concocting a story that the "band" drove off a cliff into the ocean. In a later episode, it is revealed that the fake band was inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.^[2]

IS THAT NOT INSANE?????

And STEVE RHOADES WAS PART OF IT YOU FOOLS!!!!!

Rhoades was a loser with a failed marriage who bounced around from career to career (banker, pet store worker, park ranger, college dean).  Jefferson never worked an honest day in his life, because he was a gigolo with a sugar mama. Please, this isn't even close.  

Advantage:  D'Arcy

[Technico Support]

7 hours ago, Curt McGirt said:

Good lord, you're right. I just had a flashback to reading Anthony Bourdain's Kitchen Confidential. Alberto is fucked.

I would love to see ADR and Paige on Kitchen Nightmares once his restaurant starts to go downhill.  They might be better than that lunatic couple in Arizona.

[AxB]

See how in the Olympics, those Mongolian Wrestling coaches were protesting a judge's call late in the match, and they stripped their clothes off as a protest? How did no Pro-Wrestling promotion steal that spot? I mean, obviously it makes the most sense for Flair to do it, but he's not managing Charlotte any more, but surely Vince would think it was a hilarious 'Bob Backlund has gone crazy' deal?

I mean, ideally TNA would steal it and have Mike Bennett be the one to lose via screwjob, but we'll take what we can get.

[NikoBaltimore]

Just want to say after reading Piranesi's post about the Dregs of Humanity episode, holy shitsnacks that's insane.  I might have to check out that two-parter assuming I can find it.

Now the important question regarding ADR/Paige:  Has he met her family yet?  I'm dying to see him hang around those lovable but crazy-as-fuck goofs.  And I believe he's doing one of their shows, but I'd love some footage throughout the trip of all this.

[RIPPA]

25 minutes ago, NickMD said:

Now the important question regarding ADR/Paige:  Has he met her family yet?  I'm dying to see him hang around those lovable but crazy-as-fuck goofs.  And I believe he's doing one of their shows, but I'd love some footage throughout the trip of all this.

 

[NikoBaltimore]

It appears they're happy so that's good.  But the image of ADR with Paige and her family for some reason is making me laugh.

[PetrolCB]

52 minutes ago, AxB said:

See how in the Olympics, those Mongolian Wrestling coaches were protesting a judge's call late in the match, and they stripped their clothes off as a protest? How did no Pro-Wrestling promotion steal that spot? I mean, obviously it makes the most sense for Flair to do it, but he's not managing Charlotte any more, but surely Vince would think it was a hilarious 'Bob Backlund has gone crazy' deal?

Backlund did something similar a few weeks back. I remember this because my remote died and couldn't fast forward through the segment. He tried to rip off his shirt, but his suspenders kept it on, tattered and all, rendering him a total goofball. Then he got knocked on his ass.

However, I was drunk. So I may be wrong, but I think I'm right. 

[MoeCristyV.1.6]

It happened, but I think that was BEFORE the olympics. Miz vs Darren Young at some PPV.

[The Natural]

On 19/09/2016 at 3:11 PM, Matt D said:

There was a lot of discussion back during Punk vs Brock how unbelievable it was that Punk could possibly be any threat to Brock. Most of that talk was before the match, not after. Wrestling is about illusion. It's about suspension of disbelief and one way to do that is to establish meaning and relevance within a shared universe over time. The Cobra can be a completely believable finisher if it's built that way. If Santino didn't execute it with complete conviction and if it wasn't sold by his opponents with the same, that wouldn't have mattered. Look does matter, as it makes the challenge easier, but you can establish someone like Sabre, Jr. as a dangerous world beater. It comes down to presentation and execution over time. In the context of the CWC, he's missing that time component. 

 

On 19/09/2016 at 9:13 PM, Niners Fan in CT said:

It was a spectacle but it doesn't hold up for me on second viewing. Brock is just selling and selling this weak offense and Heyman has to get involved and Punk is being dumb and allowing Heyman to distract him for several minutes. It's a pretty overrated deal,  Cena/Bryan from the same show smokes it.

I watched SummerSlam 2013 live in the early hours of the morning UK time. Watching John Cena vs. Daniel Bryan and Brock Lesnar vs. CM Punk as it happened and on repeat viewings, John Cena vs. Daniel Bryan is the best match. Never changed that opinion.

On 19/09/2016 at 3:42 PM, Matt D said:

It should have been Roman last year. That was the entire point of pushing Brock in the first place. The fans were turning around in that match because it was so good and the performances were so good. 

We're in agreement. Brock Lesnar vs. Roman Reigns vs. Seth Rollins at WrestleMania XXXI was a great match, my 2015 Match of the Year. I know Seth Rollins cashing the Money in the Bank contract divides opinion.

On 19/09/2016 at 4:01 PM, Ace said:

Have we reached the point of diminishing returns with Brock yet?

 

Yes. Hasn't had a good match since The Undertaker in the Hell in a Cell at Hell in a Cell 2015.

On 20/09/2016 at 2:26 AM, Matt D said:

He was probably the biggest draw at Mania this year, frighteningly enough.

Scary that. Yes WWE had injuries but for a WrestleMania and the size of the stadium, WrestleMania XXXII was such a disappointing show.

On 21/09/2016 at 0:14 AM, Vader does my taxes! said:

So the RAW rating was basically identical to last week's (awful):

http://www.f4wonline.com/wwe-news/raw-ratings-bring-bad-news-second-week-row-221251

Meltzer is speculating next week's rating could be the lowest in the history of the show (it's up against the NFL AND a presidential debate).

So does Vince decide this is Kevin Owens' fault and take the belt off him at the Clash or does he realize ratings are staying in the dumpster at least until January and let Owens keep the belt and take all the blame?  I don't see another Rollins or Roman title run turning the ratings around.

I agree with Burgundy. I can't see another WWE Universal Championship title change so soon after the belt was created.

On 21/09/2016 at 1:56 AM, Web Conn said:

Not that anyone on this board would necessarily care but I just got tickets to my first WWE Live Event* next Saturday in Las Vegas and the Thomas and Mack Center. I'm pretty excited I've always have wanted to go to a house show but it never came to be until now. It's the SmackDown tour so it's gonna be cool to see AJ Styles live for the third time plus Heath Slater and Rhyno. for those who have been to Live Events how are they generally?

*I went to NXT in Portland in May but that wasn't the main roster.

Nice one. I attended my first wrestling event period last April and it was a WWE Live Event. I've now attended three and my fourth will be this November. We're getting the RAW side.

On 21/09/2016 at 2:25 AM, Michael Sweetser said:

Expect less promos, longer matches, and a few silly shell-game type games on the video screen for the kids.  It's fun.

 

On 21/09/2016 at 3:21 AM, Peck said:

 

Lots more fan interaction too. Probably see a lot of selfies with folks seated along the barricades, etc.

I second these. Expect an interval as well.

[Michael Sweetser]

Yup, they usually have intermission at house shows, usually with the second-to-top match right before.  Depending on double bookings, sometimes the listed main event goes on before intermission instead.  The first house show I went to in '92 had Flair v. Savage for the World title before intermission, and Undertaker v. Berserker as the actual "main event".