goodhelmet Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 28 minutes ago, Jrag said: The Faith Militant are still around because Tommen is a weak king. The major players have to dance around that problem to dispose of the high sparrow and his goons because Tommen flat out doesn't want to do it. Edit: This was the best episode of the last 2 seasons by the way. Every story connected with me with Dany, Jon/Sansa reunion and Thormund giving the eyes to Brienne as highlights. I'll take Hardhome every day of the week. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistah Na1m4rk Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 12 minutes ago, supremebve said: They can't just kill the High Sparrow. That is like the Italian government deciding they're going to kill the Pope. Right now they have one enemy, if they kill him the entire 7 Kingdoms will be their enemy. Fighting the church as a government is like fighting a cop as an individual. How is forcibly capturing, imprisoning, and torturing the queen and queen regent not an act of war already? It never should have come to this. There is no way for me to believe that this would have been allowed to happen - I find it less realistic than the dragons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 1 minute ago, Mistah Na1m4rk said: How is forcibly capturing, imprisoning, and torturing the queen and queen regent not an act of war already? It never should have come to this. There is no way for me to believe that this would have been allowed to happen - I find it less realistic than the dragons. It is an act of war, but it is an act of war from the religious leader who is in power because the entire population hates the ruling family. The show has done a really poor job of showing it, but the main food producing "kingdoms" of the 7 Kingdoms are The Riverlands and The Reach. The Reach is where 80% of the fighting was done in the War of the Five Kings. Tywin sent the Mountain around burning farms, destroying crops, and stealing their money. The Reach, where the Tyrell's rule are giving most of their crops to the royal family. Almost everyone else is starving, broke, and pissed at the Lannisters. The High Sparrow walked barefoot, like Baelor "The Blessed" did before him, spreading the faith, feeding people, and gathering support in the most war torn areas. All of those people are in Kings Landing, and ready for the Lannisters to try some dumb shit. They have the numbers, they have the support, and they believe the have the gods on their side. If they kill the High Sparrow they will essentially have to slaughter countless of "innocent" people to do it. There is no upside to starting a war against religious zealots, they will win even if they lose. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.T. Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 22 minutes ago, Mistah Na1m4rk said: How is forcibly capturing, imprisoning, and torturing the queen and queen regent not an act of war already? It never should have come to this. There is no way for me to believe that this would have been allowed to happen - I find it less realistic than the dragons. I suppose it isn't an act of war thanks to Divine Right or whatever passes for Divine Right in Westeros. All power to rule over men comes from the Seven so the High Sparrow is deemed fit to judge nobility by virtue of his position. And then there is supremebve's post which is very accurate. From a literary standpoint, Cersei's epic fail is just another miscalculation in a long line of them as she continues to have an overinflated sense of her own tactical superiority and a myopic view of her enemies. The only things she learned from he Walk of Shame were:. 1) Don't fuck with the church. 2) Next time you spring a trap. make sure your hand isn't in the snare. The scheme to get rid of Margery not only landed her naked ass on the streets of King's Landing, Cersei may even have to ally herself with the fucking Tyrells in order to deal with the High Sparrow. At least she got the services of Mountainstein... er.. Sir Robert, out of the deatl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 I look at the High Sparrow as the same as the Lord Chancellor roles occupied by Thomas More in a A Man for All Seasons or Thomas Becket in Becket. Even though those people have done wrong by the King, you just can't start outwardly killing them especially those with a fierce religious connection (in those cases, the Church of England). You have to find some loophole or another calculated way to bring them down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 It isn't even that he is a religious leader, he is THE religious leader that was chosen by the people. The High Septon throughout the series has been some tractable guy appointed by the royal family, the people took him out of a whorehouse and whipped him in the streets. He's the most powerful man in the kingdom, because the people believe in his power more than they believe in the King, the Lannisters, the Tyrells, or anyone else. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistah Na1m4rk Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 This is all baloney. You cannot forcibly imprison the queen and queen regent on trumped-up phony charges (seriously, how the hell can you take evidence that a knight's squire as seen him naked as indicative of anything other than that he is A FUCKING SQUIRE). The worst thing to come out of this whole plotline is that it made me sympathetic for Cersei. Yes she deserves to be brought to justice for her various transgressions against the world but a kangaroo court isn't the proper venue to bring this about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.T. Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 6 minutes ago, Mistah Na1m4rk said: This is all baloney. You cannot forcibly imprison the queen and queen regent on trumped-up phony charges No one suspects the Spanish Inquisition. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 Wasn't part of Tyrion's trial hinged upon the testimony of a whore? So I mean...karma and what not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistah Na1m4rk Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 Just now, J.T. said: No one suspects the Spanish Inquisition. How long to you suppose the Spanish Inquisition would last if they started rounding up and torturing Ferdinand's family instead of a bunch of suspected Jews whose belongings would pass to the crown if convinced? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.T. Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 15 minutes ago, Mistah Na1m4rk said: How long to you suppose the Spanish Inquisition would last if they started rounding up and torturing Ferdinand's family instead of a bunch of suspected Jews whose belongings would pass to the crown if convinced? Fear of excommunication made a lot of European rulers do a lot of dumb things because they believed that they were beholden to the church via Divine Right.. Then, King Henry had the bright idea to say Hey, if Divine Rule Makes Me King Then Aren't I On Par With The Pope Since He Is Human Like Me? Westeros hasn't quite arrived at its Act of Supremacy moment quite yet where they are ready to question the legitimacy and authority of their base religion. And the charges weren't really trumped up. Cersei really did commit adultery... with her own brother and her first cousin. "Religious trials" being what they are and were, Cersei got off light compared to the average witch in Salem or Jewish person in Salamanca. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 2 minutes ago, Mistah Na1m4rk said: This is all baloney. You cannot forcibly imprison the queen and queen regent on trumped-up phony charges (seriously, how the hell can you take evidence that a knight's squire as seen him naked as indicative of anything other than that he is A FUCKING SQUIRE). The worst thing to come out of this whole plotline is that it made me sympathetic for Cersei. Yes she deserves to be brought to justice for her various transgressions against the world but a kangaroo court isn't the proper venue to bring this about. The thing is that the charges aren't trumped up. Cersei committed adultery against The King and has committed incest with a both Jaime and Lancel(who happens to be a Sparrow). Loras is gay, and his sister gave a false confession. If there are laws against those acts, which I believe there are, the High Sparrow is completely in his rights to imprison them. Their legal system isn't ours, once you are accused of a crime you are essentially guilty until proven innocent. You can try to take it to trail, but the Lannisters would never win that. They can do a trail by combat, but I don't know if the church has a champion. They can do a trail by seven, which is a seven vs. seven battle royal, which I would love, but that would mean that Jaime and his one hand would have to fight(The queen can only use the King's Guard as champions). The point is that the Faith Militant was put into power by Cersei, so the have the legal power to do every single thing that they are doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 18 minutes ago, supremebve said: Their legal system isn't ours, once you are accused of a crime you are essentially guilty until proven innocent. ....I dunno man. There is a big chunk of American history that would agree with that notion, but I see your point! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistah Na1m4rk Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 Quote Loras is gay Prove it. The only evidence they had was the word of a squire who saw him naked and could identify distinguishing marks. Since squires help lords get dressed and drew their baths it would be more remarkable if he DIDN'T see Ser Loras naked. All of their evidence sucked. If the standards of evidence in Westeros were this shabby they could just arrest the High Sparrow under secular laws against mopery and call it a day. "I have 3 witnesses who saw the High Sparrow expose himself to a blind man!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 5 minutes ago, Mistah Na1m4rk said: Prove it. The only evidence they had was the word of a squire who saw him naked and could identify distinguishing marks. Since squires help lords get dressed and drew their baths it would be more remarkable if he DIDN'T see Ser Loras naked. All of their evidence sucked. If the standards of evidence in Westeros were this shabby they could just arrest the High Sparrow under secular laws against mopery and call it a day. "I have 3 witnesses who saw the High Sparrow expose himself to a blind man!" Olivar wasn't a squire, he was a prostitute, and every single person at court knows that Loras is gay. Him and Renly weren't exactly discrete. The Sparrows know he is gay, everyone knows he is gay, no one cared until the High Sparrow showed up. Thanks to Stannis, everyone knows that all of Cersei's children are products of adulterous incest. The High Sparrow is the only person who has ever had the power to arrest them for their crimes. They don't have forensic scientists, they make an accusation and you have to prove your innocence. Their legal system is basically, "can you kill the person accusing you? Yes, I guess you're innocent. No, I guess you're guilty." All of the decisions are supposed to be the will of the seven, who is the voice of the seven? The High Sparrow. Don't forget that all of this happened, because Cersei put him in power. She is the person who is 100% at fault for this. This was a barefoot dude walking around the gutters of Flea Bottom, she put him in a position of power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistah Na1m4rk Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 Quote Olivar wasn't a squire, he was a prostitute GOT Wiki Quote In the castle gardens, Sansa Stark and Margaery Tyrell watch her brother Ser Loras spar with his squire. Sansa confidently remarks on his fighting ability, and inquires when she and Loras will wed, as per the Tyrell plot to keep her out of the hands of Baelish and/or the Lannisters. Margaery replies that she will "plant the seed" of the idea after she and Joffrey are married. Sansa is skeptical Joffrey will let her go but Margaery is confident he will do it to please her, once she is his wife. After the match, Ser Loras' new squire Olyvar flirts with him, which leads to them having sex back in Loras' chambers. As they finish, Loras mentions that he is engaged to be married... a fact that Olyvar passes on to his real master, Littlefinger, so he can pass the information on to Cersei. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 "Real master" He was a male prostitute pretending to be a squire. The same wiki says "Olyvar poses as Loras Tyrell's squire" on his entry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 Listen, I just want Jaimie and The Mountain to pop heads, Can we do that.. I think The Mountain could annihilate The Faith and the peasants by himself. Squash them like bugs. I think the Tyrells need to be very careful about aligning themselves with the Lannister clan. When has that ever ended well for anyone? The Boltons are about to overplay their hand something serious. They know about the wildlings but what do they know about the Knights of the Vale? I think they're fucked. About Rickon. Have the Umbers had him this entire time? Why are we just now hearing about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hail Sabin Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 His boat finally came in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 The end made me immediately break into 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyWhioux Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 4 hours ago, Niners Fan in CT said: Listen, I just want Jaimie and The Mountain to pop heads, Can we do that.. I think The Mountain could annihilate The Faith and the peasants by himself. Squash them like bugs. I think the Tyrells need to be very careful about aligning themselves with the Lannister clan. When has that ever ended well for anyone? The Boltons are about to overplay their hand something serious. They know about the wildlings but what do they know about the Knights of the Vale? I think they're fucked. About Rickon. Have the Umbers had him this entire time? Why are we just now hearing about it? Season 3, Episode 9, Team Bran splits. Bran, Hodor, and The Reeds continue north, Osha takes Rickon to The Umbers as per Bran's instructions. Rickon and Osha have not been seen or discussed since, until The Umbers (who haven't gotten screen time either) revealed them last week. And The Red Wedding tends to overshadow everything else in S3 EP9 so Rickon's whereabouts can easily be forgotten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuerrillaMonsoon Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 Snow and his men encounter the White Walkers on the way to fight the Bolton's. White Walkers leave them for dead and easy prey for the Bolton's. Taker/Shawn HIAC all over again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxB Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 If there were White Walkers between Castle Black and Winterfell, Sansa would have arrived as an Ice Zombie. And GoT has steered clear of the 'Meeting your dead friends now they are Zombies' set piece (happens too often in Walking Dead, innit?) even though it happened in the books during the rout from the Fist of the First Men. Small Paul isn't in the show though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistah Na1m4rk Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 22 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said: "Real master" He was a male prostitute pretending to be a squire. The same wiki says "Olyvar poses as Loras Tyrell's squire" on his entry. If he's posing as a squire in public, why wouldn't it be assumed that he was doing squire duties? They're out there sparring for all to see under the guise of Olyvar squiring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 I don't think anyone is arguing that. Point is he is a prostitute under the employ of Littlefinger. Just because he moonlights as a squire doesn't change that fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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