Raziel Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 4 minutes ago, J.T. said: I think you are. This episode fell into a couple of huge tiger traps. 1. It demystified Melisandre. NEVER EXPLAIN MAGIC~! 2. It gave in to fan service and brought Jon back. The path's been there since season 2. it's just a matter of how do they get there, and if they pull the trigger. Sarcastic Davos is fucking awesome though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrag Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 I didn't necessarily like the ending, but i'm cool with it. They needed to establish a pace, and with everyone expecting Jon back by the end, it was probably wise to draw it out a bit. Tyrion/Varys , Davos, BRIENNE AND POD, Edd (presumably going to find Tormund). Lot's of cool shit this week mixed in with some not so good. One thing I really like is the possibilities of what happens with Jamie. I was not a fan of his story line in the last few books and I'm glad he seems to be heading in a completely different direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrag Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 18 minutes ago, J.T. said: 2. It gave in to fan service and brought Jon back. 1. It's not fan service if the ground work for the story was layed over a decade ago. 2. Jon ain't back yet. 3. You might be the only one here who doesn't want Jon back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.T. Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 12 minutes ago, Jrag said: 1. It's not fan service if the ground work for the story was layed over a decade ago. 2. Jon ain't back yet. 3. You might be the only one here who doesn't want Jon back. 1. Jon = Azor Ahai and Jon + Ghost = Warg were the set-up scenarios to make you rubes would think that GRRM would let Jon live and "fulfill his destiny." Suckers. 2. Nor should he come back, but writers don't want anymore GoT viewers jumping off of bridges or going off into the woods to kill themselves when their positive role models and beloved characters get snuffed. Last night's tease was the EVERYTHING IS OKAY alarm claxon to get diehards reinvested in the series. They need to have someone other than Dany to put their hopes in. 3. The White Walkers are the apocalypse that Westeros deserves, especially the Boltons and the Lannisters. A good flood clenses all evil. You people are pulling for the wrong side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raziel Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 JT's gone full FSW of GoT. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.T. Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 26 minutes ago, Raziel403 said: JT's gone full FSW of GoT. Pure literary criticism. Authors write the stories that they are pleased with and others are pleased with their work. You never write the story that pleases your fans because then it doesn't belong to you anymore. Jon best serves the story as the hope that died because it makes his murder even more tragic. The Watch murdered the man who could've defeated the Walkers and they did it out of spite and foolish pride and now they have no one to blame but themselves when the Walkers claim the North and start marching South.. Now after Melisandre does the magical necklace thing, will Jon be the Jon everyone loves when or if he comes back from the void? I guess we'll have to tune in and see as it is a move that smells of marketing, not prose. I personally think that it Is the Walkers that will provide audiences with the agents of vengeance and poetic justice they have been desperate for since the Red Wedding and Ned's execution. Embrace the slaying wind.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigertooth Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 NOBODY EXPECTS the Dothraki to do the Spanish Inquisition gag. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raziel Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 Their primary weapon is fear. Fear, and a fanatical devotion to the Great Stallion... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 51 minutes ago, J.T. said: Pure literary criticism. Authors write the stories that they are pleased with and others are pleased with their work. You never write the story that pleases your fans because then it doesn't belong to you anymore. Jon best serves the story as the hope that died because it makes his murder even more tragic. The Watch murdered the man who could've defeated the Walkers and they did it out of spite and foolish pride and now they have no one to blame but themselves when the Walkers claim the North and start marching South.. Now after Melisandre does the magical necklace thing, will Jon be the Jon everyone loves when or if he comes back from the void? I guess we'll have to tune in and see as it is a move that smells of marketing, not prose. I personally think that it Is the Walkers that will provide audiences with the agents of vengeance and poetic justice they have been desperate for since the Red Wedding and Ned's execution. Embrace the slaying wind.. If Jon doesn't come back in the books or on the show, there is no reason to care about any of the bigger mysteries of the story. The entire series is about Jon, his parentage, and how him and Dany overcome the odds and come into power. The series is called A Song of Ice(Jon) and Fire(Dany). Nothing works without Jon being reborn. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig H Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 So JT wants something that has no possibility of happening (White Walkers winning) and doesn't want something that the show has built towards (Jon coming back). I don't know dude, maybe this show isn't for you? I guess I'm ok with Melisandre's reveal. So look at it like this. For the first time in her existence on this show, she is having her own faith tested and she's finally showing herself as being vulnerable. This is true in her emotions as well as in her physical appearance. We've seen her bare before, but this is her actual true form. She is vulnerable in every sense of the word. I like that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.T. Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 Why does everyone assume that the Ice in A Song of Fire & Ice refers to Jon when every reference to Winter links directly to the Walkers? Why does nothing work without Jon being reborn? Lots of pivotal characters have died or have been killed and the world still spins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig H Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 Who else fulfills Melisandre's prophecy? The entire time she was courting Stannis and any other Baratheon, it was clear that she was meant for Jon. What is even the point of her quest and Jon's existence if she doesn't bring Jon back from the dead? We've seen all of these other wonders and miracles from the Lord of the Light and now all of a sudden it's just hocus pocus and flim flam? No way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrag Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 Jon is important to the story in ways other characters aren't. It's a combination of location (the wall), prophecies, unsolved mysteries, swords, a dead white walker, dreams, family name, etc etc His story ties directly into the main event. It's not fan service or trying to hold an audience, it's THE story. You can dislike it, but claiming the creators (Martin or D&D) are simply bending to the audience will is a serious misreading of this story. Hell, D&D only got Martin's OK after successfully naming Jon's parents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.T. Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 54 minutes ago, Craig H said: So JT wants something that has no possibility of happening (White Walkers winning) and doesn't want something that the show has built towards (Jon coming back). I don't know dude, maybe this show isn't for you? I don't necessarily want it, but I have no idea why people are insisting that this story has some Easter In Westeros ending where Jon comes back from the dead and thwarts all evil. Furthermore, YOU GUYS ARE COUNTING ON MELISANDRE FOR YOUR MIRACLE~? SERIOUSLY~? Ask yourselves. Do you REALLY want the Jon that she might bring back from the dead? As far as this whole book title deal, I'm just open to the idea that the "ice" in A Song of Fire & Ice refers to the Walkers since every reference to Winter links directly to them and yeah ice comes with winter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig H Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 R'hllor works in mysterious ways. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrag Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 Plus, you know, it hasn't happened yet. I thought I wanted the reveal right away, but damn near every scene at the Wall was electric last night. They did a good job of capturing a certain mood AND they added the perfect character in the mix. DAVOS EXPANDED ROLE! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.T. Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 38 minutes ago, Craig H said: R'hllor works in mysterious ways. She got Stannis to burn his own daughter at the stake, yo. You can trust her old ass with the fate of your dead savior if you want to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 1 minute ago, J.T. said: I don't necessarily want it, but I have no idea why people are insisting that this story has some Westeros Easter story where Jon comes back from the dead and thwarts all evil. I'm just open to the idea that the "ice" in A Song of Fire & Ice refers to the Walkers since every reference to Winter links directly to them. As far as Jon reborn goes. YOU GUYS ARE COUNTING ON MELISANDRE FOR YOUR MIRACLE~! Ask yourself. do you REALLY want the version of Jon she might bring back from the dead? It doesn't matter if that is the version we want, that is the version we're going to get. Nothing else makes narrative sense in the books or the show. If Jon is dead, why do we care who his mother is? Why did we learn that a Red Priest/Priestess can resurrect someone? Why did Dany dream of a blue rose growing out of the wall? Why did the prologue of A Dance With Dragons feature a warg prolonging his life through his skin changing abilities? Why waste so many pages setting up these mysteries if they aren't going to pay off? No one else has that many prophecies/mysteries/etc. wouldn't that be a huge waste of everyone's time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.T. Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 Uh, Bram can warg, too. And he's from the North where there is ice and stuff.. And his story is supposed to be a big deal this season. And he has dream visions just like Dany does. More importantly, Bram is not a dead guy awaiting an evil old necromancer with a suspect agenda to bring him back to life. All of this talk of Jon & Melisandre and his Get Out of Death Free card makes me think I am the only man in North America that has ever read The Monkey's Paw. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSJ Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 15 minutes ago, J.T. said: Uh, Bram can warg too. And he's from the North where there is ice and stuff.. And his story is supposed to be a big deal this season. And he has dream visions just like Dany does. More importantly, Bram is not a dead guy awaiting an evil old necromancer with a suspect agenda to bring him back to life. All of this talk of Jon & Melisandre and his Get Out of Death Free card makes me think I am the only man in North America that has ever read The Monkey's Paw. Well, you know damn well that you're not. ;-) Am I the only one that thinks that Westeros is going to get the Jon Snow it deserves? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.T. Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 1 hour ago, OSJ said: Well, you know damn well that you're not. ;-) Am I the only one that thinks that Westeros is going to get the Jon Snow it deserves? Dude, The last scene of the season finale where Undead Jon Snow leads the Walker army to lay siege to Winterfell will cause mass suicides. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSJ Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 The flipside will be Dany going batshit crazy like her dad and leading her dragons to destroy everything. There's your fire and ice, motherfuckers. Deal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChesterCopperpot Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 Meanwhile - next week 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSJ Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 They'll be fine, the dogs will find the missing Russian dude from the Sopranos and chow down in fine fashion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig H Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 BTW, Ser Davos is approaching all time great status. Based on lack of usage, he's already surpassed Bronn. He's getting into Tyrion's territory now for how awesome he is. Something else that was awesome was Pod the Bod killing someone. Kid's come a long way. If Pod or Davos die, we riot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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