Jump to content
DVDVR Message Board
elizium

Games of Thrones Unsullied thread

Recommended Posts

There is no point to be all like... "NOPE, GUESS AGAIN!!" when people are trying to figure out who killed Joff.  Why even comment at all to a post like that if you already know the answer?  

 

The show might have some cool fake out up it's sleeve and you're over here trying to nudge people in a certain direction.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's a difference between looking for spoilers and having someone spoil something for you. If I put a Breaking Bad spoiler in here, everyone would be rightfully upset because you should be able to read a thread about Game of Thrones without having other things spoiled for you. It's common decency. Unfortunately there isn't much of that around these days.

 

You're lecturing me about common decency and complaining about the lack of it?  That's some spit take worthy ironic shit right there.

 

I refuse to believe you didn't enjoy watching this thread freak out about the Red Wedding after the fact. Why would you be happy that others were deprived of another holy shit moment?

 

Of course I enjoyed it, but I didn't spoil the events of the Red Wedding for you either nor am I going to comment one way or the other on what happens next.

 

Giving bullshit clues about how something will either delight or upset you is worse than an outright spoiler.

 

There is no point to be all like... "NOPE, GUESS AGAIN!!" when people are trying to figure out who killed Joff. 

 

Why even comment at all to a post like that if you know the answer?

 

There is nothing about the show or the books that can ever be accepted at face value so it wouldn't take an algorithm to compute the unlikeliness of the most obvious suspect being guilty.

 

GRRM hates Occam's Razor as a rule.  It's Season Four.  You guys know this by now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A plea for civility from you?  Interesting.

 

No, what King did was not cool, but it was still funny.  You may as well get angry at Akira Kurosawa for ruining the end to The Magnficent Seven.

 

Back to the series.   Sansa is a better person than I am.  I am pretty sure if I were her, I would've tripped up anyone trying to administer an antidote to Joffrey to make sure that he choked to death.  I would not have been able to contain my glee and probably would've ended up sitting in the dungeon cell next to the Imp. . 

 

The tragic thing is that Joffrey is such a shit, the majority of the Lannisters themselves are such loathsome people, and Gleeson is such a tremendous actor that everyone forgets that Joffrey is still someone's kid... 

 

What child really ever deserves something like that to happen to them?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The books are written in a way that basically makes all these conversations about who did what to whom 10x more complex than the show.  I don't think anyone has ever spoiled anything here, so maybe everyone needs to lighten up.  All of this is just speculation, and conjecture.

 

This episode was mostly the Purple Wedding, but there were a couple of scenes before that brought up something that hasn't really been explained fully on the show...religion.

 

The most common religion in Westeros is the Faith of the Seven, which is practiced everywhere but in the North, The Iron Islands and with Stannis.  It is basically the Christianity of Westeros, but instead of having a holy trinity their god has seven aspects.  The Seven aspects of the Faith of the Seven are The Father, who represents judgement, The Mother, who represents motherhood and nurturing, The Warrior, represents strength in battle, The Maiden, who represents innocence, The Smith who represents craft and labor, The Crone, who represents wisdom, and The Stranger who represents death and the unknown.  Male clergy are called Septons, and they have a pope like figure called The High Septon, who you may remember gettin his arm ripped off in the riot in King's Landing after Maergery was shipped off to Dorne.  Female clergy are called Septas, the noble houses tend to have a Septa in house to train the daughters to be proper ladies.  You may remember Sansa being a bitch to Septa Mordane in the first season.  Septs are the places of worship for the Faith of the Seven, the most famous of which is The Great Sept of Baelor.  The Great Sept of Balor is where Ned was beheaded, and Joffrey was married.  It was named for Baelor the Blessed, the 9th Targaryen king, and by far the most beloved. 

 

In the North they worship the Old Gods.  The Old Gods are the gods of the Children of the Forest, who were the first "people" in Westeros.  The religion of The old Gods have no churches, songs, priests, or holy texts.  It is a folk religion that holds weirwood trees with faces carved in them, called a Heart Tree.  The tree that Bran got the vision from, was a heart tree.  Worshipers of The Old Gods keep a Godswood, which is basically a peaceful garden built around a Heart Tree.  There was a time where every noble house had a Godswood with a Heart Tree in it's center, but since the rise of the Faith of the Seven many have been converted into secular gardens.

 

R'hllor, The Lord of Light is a prominent religion in Essos, but has recently gained a foothold in Westeros when King Stannis Baratheon adopted the faith.  The Red Priests are the clergy of R'hllor, most of whom are given to the Red Temples as children.  The two most famous Red Priests in Westeros are Melissandre, Stannis' Red Priest, and Thoros of Myr, one of the Brotherhood Without Banners.  Red Priests believe they can look into flames and see the future. The religion of R'hllor is actually a dualistic religion, they acknowledge a second God called "The Great Other," the god of ice and death. 

 

The Drowned God is the god of The Ironborn.  The Ironborn believe that the Drowned God made them to control the seas, reave, and rape.  The clergy of the Drowned God are called the Drowned Men.  The Drowned Men drown their followers then revive them, because they belive it makes them stronger.  After being revived the Drowned Man will tell his follower, "What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger"

 

The question going forward about these religions are whether all of these gods real, some of them real, or none of them real. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What child really ever deserves something like that to happen to them?

Joffrey.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I always found the R'hllor faith to be interesting.   Clearly influenced by Zoroastrianism / Mazdaism since R'hllor and the Great Other are polar opposites that are equal in power, quite unlike Christianity or Islam where the godhead is clearly superior in power and influence than the adversary.

 

Hopefully more info about the R'hllor faith will become more prominant because that will make other events in Westeros make a lot more sense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

What child really ever deserves something like that to happen to them?

Joffrey.

 

No.  Between the inbreeding and the absolutely psychotic family influences, Joffrey becoming a maniac was destiny.  Both Nature and Nurture gone completely batshit insane.

 

I am surprised that Tommen turns out as well as he did and even that kid has major issues.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So does last night's episode mean they found the cure for being a cunt?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What child really ever deserves something like that to happen to them?

Joffrey.

 

No.  Between the inbreeding and the absolutely psychotic family influences, Joffrey becoming a maniac was destiny.  Both Nature and Nurture gone completely batshit insane.

 

You're trying to find a shade of grey where there isn't even a tinge. He was the worst person in the world, totally irredeemable, and deserved what he got. Worse, really.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Joffrey was never placed in an atmosphere or an environment where it was even remotely possible to redeem himself or even think for himself for that matter.  He's certainly responsible for his own personal actions, but he was doomed from the start.

 

With dominant negative influences like Cersei and Tywin that either encouraged his sadism or provoked his immaturity, there was no other way for Joffrey to turn out. 

 

Joffrey was raised and conditioned to hold in contempt the only relatively positive influence on his upbringing and that was Tyrion.

 

Like I said before, Tommen was also brought up under those conditions and I am shocked that he is almost the polar opposite of his older brother.   Being bullied by Joffrey probably had something to do with Tommen being even-tempered but shit, Tommen is fucking addled beyond belief thanks to his incestuous origins.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The fact that Tommen turned out mostly okay really undermines your position that Joffrey was in a no-win situation as a human being. Joffrey's fucking problem was Joffrey.

Fortunately, somebody solved it for him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Damn.  I was going to call Cersei in an insane attempt to make her younger and more controllable son King and get Tyrion killed all in one stroke.  I was actually thinking maybe she would off Tywin next and emerge as MVP of the season.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The fact that Tommen turned out mostly okay really undermines your position that Joffrey was in a no-win situation as a human being.

 

Tommen turns out mostly okay because Joffrey bullied him and Tomen does not want to grow up to be like his brother.  So, far, Tommen's the exception to the rule. 

 

He may have a better nature but mostly okay is still rreally fucked up and he still could go sideways at any time now that Cersei, Tywin, Margaery and all of the other flies will be buzzing in his ear...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The fact that Tommen turned out mostly okay really undermines your position that Joffrey was in a no-win situation as a human being.

 

Tommen turns out mostly okay because Joffrey bullies him, and Tomen does not want to grow up to be like his brother.  So he's the exception to the rule.

 

He may have a better nature but he's still really fucked up and could go sideways at any time..

Alright, alright. Remind me to add you to the list with Fowler of people not to send back in time to assasinate Hitler as a child. We can't have you feeling the feels when you put your finger on the trigger.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm saying that Joffey is a tragic literary figure with classic hubris.  I'm not saying I would be completely dry-eyed at his funeral with zero fucks given.

 

I'd be drawn and quartered if I were asked to give the eulogy, because mine would start of with, "No offense, my Queen, but you know we all hated this mother fucker, right?"

 

Why am I killing Hitler as a child.  If we've got time travel, can't I shoot that mother fucker when he's in his twenties during WW1 so it looks like just another casualty?

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Or kill his mother before he was born.

Edit: wrong got threqd

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm saying that Joffey is a tragic literary figure.  I'm not saying I would be completely dry-eyed at the funeral with zero fucks given.

 

I'd be drawn and quartered if I were asked to give the eulogy, because mine would start of with, "No offense, my queen but you know we all hated this mother fucker, right?"

Ah, here's where we have our wires crossed. You started by saying he didn't deserve what happened to him, which he definitely did. Now you're saying he's a tragic figure, which is true enough, though likely on the less sympathetic end of the scale. But here's the thing: the two aren't mutually exclusive. You can be both tragic AND totally deserving of what you get. In fact, in the best tragedies, that's usually the case.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Exactly.  I am not suggesting that Joffrey shouldn't be held accountable for his actions merely because of his age, but the poor kid was both born to be a monster and made into one.

 

Sure, Joffrey's a dick and Cersei is batshit insane, but at the end of the day that is still a mother watching helplessly as her young son convulses in her arms and dies a painful death on his wedding day and that should be a fucked up and sad thing to bear witness to no matter how you feel about the people involved.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really like Supremebve. He fills in the gaps without spoiling major events. If all book readers were like Supremebve, I would love them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah this whole Tommen is decent talking point would be great if we'd seen anything of him before but thanks for spoiling shit like that and where the crown goes next. You have your own thread feel free to stay there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Someone should've pointed Deadspin to this thread for the "Bitchiest Fans" tourny.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...