Games of Thrones Unsullied thread

[odessasteps]

3 minutes ago, Raziel said:

I'm just convinced now that there's nothing this board won't eventually turn on and hate at some point.

Bunkhouse Buck? 

[John from Cincinnati]

6 minutes ago, Raziel said:

I'm just convinced now that there's nothing this board won't eventually turn on and hate at some point.

This board? Go bigger. This negativity is spreading all over the internet. 

[Beech27]

-For fiction that's always been positioned as the anti-Tolkien, Varys might as well have quoted the man's late-life political disenchantment. ("The most improper job of any man... is bossing other men. Not one in a million is fit for it, and least of all those who seek the opportunity," fits very well.)

-Regarding the dragons: I think the preview hints that Dany has learned from her tactical blunder, and will choose a different angle of flight/attack next time. I want to say that using the sun and/or clouds as cover and dive-bombing was mentioned in Fire and Blood, but I can't recall for sure.

-Were I being generous, I'd take Sansa's line as taking ownership of her trauma in order to rob it--and those who perpetrated it--of power. I'm just not sure the writing has earned that generosity.

-I do generally feel the show has gone from rewarding paying attention to punishing it, but I'm still invested and entertained. (It would be very boring to say I'm waiting for the books, but...) I don't think the negativity is an instance of impossible expectations so much as a genuine decline in quality.

Edited May 6, 2019 by Beech27

[EVA]

45 minutes ago, Matt D said:

It would have been easy to have REMEMBERED the fleet but have not known about the crossbows. 

Definitely.  And much like the issue with her plan for the siege, it could've been fixed with just a few more lines of dialogue, one voice of reason speaking out.

All it wouldve taken was, say, Davos saying something like, "But what about the Iron Fleet?  Euron Greyjoy controls the seas.  He's ambushed us before, at great cost, and he can do it again.  Sailing south risks much of what force we have left."

Then Dany could just be like, "Fuck that.  I'll have my dragons this time, and if Euron's briny ass jumps out, I'll torch his fleet and send it to the bottom of the sea."

Well, okay.

The decision is made based on the queen's brash hubris, not simply being a bunch of incompetents who forgot perhaps *the* most important strategic piece to Cersei's defenses (that they knew about at that point, anyway).  Then, when he hits them with the crossbows outta nowhere, it plays differently.

[Eivion]

4 minutes ago, Beech27 said:

-Were I being generous, I'd take Sansa's line as taking ownership of her trauma in order to rob it--and those who perpetrated it--of power. I'm just not sure the writing has earned that generosity.

That probably was the idea. They just didn't do a good job on the delivery.

Edited May 6, 2019 by Eivion

[Craig H]

33 minutes ago, Raziel said:

I'm just convinced now that there's nothing this board won't eventually turn on and hate at some point.

You're right. We should just take the shit that's shoveled to us and smile like a bunch of brain dead dopes instead of wanting something better.

[Craig H]

47 minutes ago, Jrag said:

Also... like 3/4ths of my problems with the last 2 season would have been solved if they stuck with the 10 episode format instead of fucking the pacing up so much.

Why are we getting six 80+ minute episodes instead of ten 55 minute ones? Why is HBO rushing to the finish line of their biggest hit ever?  

I’ve been baffled by this since they announced it.  It makes no sense to me.

This is what I keep coming back to. One of my friends said that the only reasons he can think of is that 1) it's way too hard to hold all of these actors hostage by keeping them on set for months on end when they want to go and film movies and other stuff and 2) since Benioff and Weiss have blown past the GRRM material, they don't have as solid of a roadmap and they're simply looking to wrap things up as quickly as possible when GRRM is out here saying that Benioff and Weiss could easily have 2 to 3 more seasons of this show.

The best move would have been to add 3 episodes to last season and have those be the first 3 episodes of this season and then make this season 7 to 10 episodes dealing with the fallout from the battle for Winterfell and preparations for the last war.

Instead, everything is such a rush job, characters whims and desires are turning on a dime over the course of hours, and there's just no time left or not enough time left to flesh this out better.

It's like a marathon runner who's almost in first tearing their ACL right before the finish line and they now have to drag themselves across to finish.

Whatever. There's some good here, like the stuff with the Hound and Arya, but there's so much that's bad.

[AxB]

34 minutes ago, odessasteps said:

I am starting to feel we are going to end up with a Fortinbras-type in charge  with everyone dead at the end. 

The Blackadder finish*? I'd buy it. GRRM is a big fan. His dream casting was Rowan Atkinson as Varys (Varys is a master of disguise in the books).

Considering how they like to repeat dialogue as a way of showing things going full circle, any chance we get a "Burn them all" from Dany soon?

* nb: Every series of Blackadder ends with the entire cast lying dead on the floor. It was played for laughs in the first three.

[Raziel]

10 minutes ago, Craig H said:

You're right. We should just take the shit that's shoveled to us and smile like a bunch of brain dead dopes instead of wanting something better.

Or you could just, ya know, not watch instead of acting like you can do it better.  Because that's an actual option.  For anything on TV.

[BobbyWhioux]

Tyrion and Varys should be trying to convince Dany that she's already won and that time is on her side because she basically has.

Starks rule The North

Edmure in Riverrun/The Riverlands

Robin in The Vale

Yara in The Iron Islands

install and Support Gendry in the Stormlands, Tyrion in The Westerlands/Casterly Rock, accept the fealty of Generic Jabroni Off Camera Dornish Prince, and give Sam his family seat and make him Warden Of The South/LP of The Reach from Horn Hill [and fuck, give Bronn Highgarden too]. 

6.75 of the 7 Kingdoms are loyal to Dany directly or via Jon once these claimants are installed and supported.  It's over.  Cersei is queen of the land the capital sits on and fuck all else.  She's 20 years older than Dany, burning through her money on paying The Golden Company to sit around, and about to burn through whatever food they have with all those peasants inside her gates.  Not very good TV to sit and wait and do a siege properly (i.e. surround and starve them out) but that's what they should be advising Dany to do.

Why is Dany in a hurry all of a sudden?  Give her a good reason to feel like it's not over/she still needs to hustle.  Fuck, make Drogon get old or terminally ill or something.  If Dany's going to act like she has a shot clock, give her some sort of shot clock.

 

[Craig H]

1 minute ago, Raziel said:

Or you could just, ya know, not watch instead of acting like you can do it better.  Because that's an actual option.  For anything on TV.

Many of us have watched this since the beginning. If this were season 3, that would make sense, but we're seeing this to it's end and we want it to be better than it is because in the past, it has been better than this. 

But thanks for bringing over your routine of being sanctimonious and holier than thou from the wrestling threads over here. We were really just waiting for your direction.

Also, BTW, it's just as easy for you to not make comments like this and just let the vast majority of us commiserate, or, what, are we preventing you from making your own commentary about the episode?

[Raziel]

1 minute ago, Craig H said:

Many of us have watched this since the beginning. If this were season 3, that would make sense, but we're seeing this to it's end and we want it to be better than it is because in the past, it has been better than this. 

But thanks for bringing over your routine of being sanctimonious and holier than thou from the wrestling threads over here. We were really just waiting for your direction.

Also, BTW, it's just as easy for you to not make comments like this and just let the vast majority of us commiserate, or, what, are we preventing you from making your own commentary about the episode?

yes, I forgot, the board is for the vast majority of people to bitch about how they hate everything.  It's fucking hilarious how you give me this line but tried to chase me out of the AEW thread because I wasn't letting you all have your fun.  Hypocrite much?

 

I'd make comments, but since I'm defending things the board hates, I'd probably be drowned out by the masses calling me B&W defender or some other shit thing because I'm not following the "it" crowd.  The episode wasn't without flaws, but overall things have a pretty clear direction, but you'd have to stop projecting your fan fiction onto what's going on to actually see it.

 

 

[supremebve]

I love the "I'm going to attack everyone opinion" act.  Then when asked, "why don't you just state your opinion?"  You answer with, "Because people would just attack my opinion."

[odessasteps]

30 minutes ago, AxB said:

The Blackadder finish*? I'd buy it. GRRM is a big fan. His dream casting was Rowan Atkinson as Varys (Varys is a master of disguise in the books).

Considering how they like to repeat dialogue as a way of showing things going full circle, any chance we get a "Burn them all" from Dany soon?

* nb: Every series of Blackadder ends with the entire cast lying dead on the floor. It was played for laughs in the first three.

People have floated the Blackadder II finish, with Arya killing and impersonating Sansa as Queen.

 

[John from Cincinnati]

32 minutes ago, AxB said:

His dream casting was Rowan Atkinson as Varys (Varys is a master of disguise in the books).

That's just a better show all the way through. 

[TheVileOne]

Crucial leak from Episode 5:

[Raziel]

*crack*

The episode wasn't a "piece of shit" or whatever.  If followed most of the character directions, it just didn't spell it out clearly as people wanted.  Tryion isn't being dummed down, he's been very vocal for 2 seasons about wanting to avoid bloodshed at all costs, and appealed twice to the one thing he was sure Cersei would listen to, the wellbeing of her children.  He knows Dany's ready to burn it all down, and he's trying to stop that from happeneing, but it didn't work.  He knows they're all fucked now, because Cersei killed Missandre and got the drop on them and killed Rheagon.  He also knows that angry Dany is bad news, because now if she goes full on Targayen, Varys point blank said they have an out with Jon, and will take it.  Tryion put everything into Dany, and he lost control.

 

Jon's too damn noble for his own good.  Sansa made a play because she doesn't trust Dany, point blank.

 

Dany's come from literally nothing and worked up to just about ready to take the Throne, and when she sees the end, Jon's suddenly there and represents a stumbling block, because as she saw, everyone will run into walls for him and no one gives a flying fuck overall about her.  The grand welcoming of the conquering Queen never happened, no one wants her there.  Everything she's worked for is falling apart and she handed the biggest rival to her now the keys to the throne by helping win his war.  She's breaking, and Cersei outmanuvering her is quickening that.

 

Varys' spies are now Qyburn's spies, they established that a couple seasons ago.  The likely ways in are probably guarded.  Also, no one knows Ayra's is really a Faceless man.  So the leaders going "Let's use her" doesn't exactly fly.  However, she's going anyway.

[Niners Fan in CT]

How was there going to be push back in the war room when Jon immediately shot down any sense of division in the room?  Jon wants Dany to lead in part because he doesn't want to be on the throne. He's in a tough spot.  I'm less clear on what Tyrion is thinking. 

I don't think Jaimie "turned heel" last night..  I'm actually surprised many people believe that. 

[Niners Fan in CT]

I'm seeing a lot of people mad about Euron taking down a dragon.  I can see the complaints.  If it was the Euron from the books he wouldn't have killed a dragon but he would have been smart enough to maybe steal one off or something.  He has never really had a chance to show his intelligence on the show.  He is easily one of the worst characters,  probably the worst. 

[Niners Fan in CT]

4 hours ago, AxB said:

Although she also didn't see them before they started shooting which seems unlikely. If the Greyjoy ships had been flying Dragon banners and she'd assumed they were friendlys, it would have made sense that she didn't see the danger. But that's not what the show is now.

This bothered me.  I don't understand how you don't see the fleet but then I saw screen caps where people are saying well it was dark and cloudy..   I don't know.  I'm still hoping that it plays out where someone in Dany's camp tipped Euron off to where they'd be.  It wouldn't make up for them not seeing the fleet but it'd be more interesting then they are just there to ambush because that's what the show needed. 

[EVA]

Jon isn't the boss of anybody on Dany's team.  In their private meeting together, Tyrion explicitly says to Varys that their job is to guide Dany down the right path, yet neither of them appear to make much of an effort to intervene against this woebegone plan.

The scenario that @BobbyWhioux laid out is exactly what the old Tyrion would've laid out to her (and even his sister, rather than another maudlin plea for her child.)

Edited May 6, 2019 by EVA

[Raziel]

Yeah, in regards to Jamie, I don't believe that was a heel turn.  Cersei sent Bronn to kill him and Tyrion.  Bronn is gonna come kill him if Cersei wins.  Dany's win down another dragon looks less likely, and Jamie himself killed a King to stop them from burning down Kings Landing.  He KNOWS what Cersei is capibable of (she blew up the Great Sept and everyone in it, then basically shrugged off that it caused Tommen to kill himself so she could claim the throne), and he knows that Dany has a Dragon still.  "She is hateful... and so am I", was more "I did everything for her and she betrayed me at every turn, the bill has come due".  He broke clean from Brienne because like the others heading for King's Landing solo, he's not intending to come back.

 

But again, that requires inferrence.

 

5 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

I'm seeing a lot of people mad about Euron taking down a dragon.  I can see the complaints.  If it was the Euron from the books he wouldn't have killed a dragon but he would have been smart enough to maybe steal one off or something.  He has never really had a chance to show his intelligence on the show.  He is easily one of the worst characters,  probably the worst. 

The worst part of Euron is that they didn't give him the Dragon Horn in the show that they gave him in the book.  

[Raziel]

1 minute ago, EVA said:

Jon isn't the boss of anybody on Dany's team.  In their private meeting together, Tyrion explicitly says to Varys that their job is to guide Dany down the right path, yet neither of them appear to make much of an effort to intervene against this woebegone plan.

Varys realized what they're dealing with during the feast when Dany took off in a huff.  Tyrion is holding on by a thread.  Both know "she doesn't like her authority challenged".  Of course, Varys didn't know then that he had a plan B.

[John from Cincinnati]

 

[Niners Fan in CT]

10 minutes ago, Raziel said:

Varys realized what they're dealing with during the feast when Dany took off in a huff.  Tyrion is holding on by a thread.  Both know "she doesn't like her authority challenged".  Of course, Varys didn't know then that he had a plan B.

See I think this is why Dany is rushing through this.  I'd have to scroll up a bit I think it was @supremebve who laid out a perfectly reasonable plan where Dany could have placed all her chess pieces where they need to be and Cersei would have no chance in coming out of this.  

The problem I see with that is Dany found out Jon is the rightful heir.  She is not well liked in the north AT ALL.  She knows Sansa don't like her,  the show has actually spent a lot of time on this point.  Dany is rushing to the finish line because the more she waits the more time elapses where people in the north are going to find out she is not the rightful heir and then she will never fulfill her destiny.  

Jon shut shit down quickly in the war room to show his loyalty to her but what happened there is when you just go along with this rush job of a plan and nobody is prepared and nobody is rested,  well you end up losing part of your fleet and a dragon and another one of your advisers.  Also remember,  outside of Tyrion the only other people Dany really had is Jorah and Missandei and both are dead.