Games of Thrones Unsullied thread

[Brian Fowler]

I'm cautiously optimistic that the show finally got to the point where we have our actual hero.

But then I remember the first two "obvious archetypical fantasy hero" characters.

[odessasteps]

I think the whole story (books/show) is about subverting the traditional genre tropes, so I find it hard for Jon to be THE HERO at the end of the day. No Aragorns here.

[Brian Fowler]

The story has always been about a hero though. The Prince (or Princess) Who Was Promised/Ahor Azai/The Last Hero, all of whom may or may not be the same person.

If you accept that The Hound is the dog, then he's even basically right now reenacting the story of the Last Hero.

[odessasteps]

To me, it makes more sense for it to be Dany, since so much of this is about the power of women (dany, sersei, arya, brienne, even sansa eventually)

Of course, i have been predicting a Dany heel turn, so what do i know?

[Eivion]

Did not see Gendry coming back and becoming a complete badass. That was awesome. As was the forming of the Dream team at the end.

5 hours ago, piranesi said:

Hated Arya's clumsy oafish psycho stunted view of everything and everyone around her bringing the downfall of Winterfell. It's very operatic and all complete with Iago. But "you moved into mom and dad's room so I've instantly decided you're evil." Fuck you, you little psycho. I always kind of wondered if before this was all said and done she was going to become a major liability. She's just a damaged muppet with too little brains and too much killing skills.

Eh, Arya never trusted Sansa. Keep in mind Sansa was on her list originally. Arya also isn't completely wrong. Sansa may have pushed for Jon to be leader, but she definitely thinks she could do a better job much of the time. Her support of Jon has been pretty much half-assed since the opening of the season. Arya doesn't see Sansa as evil so much as manipulative and dangerous which if Sansa doesn't do a better job of covering Jon's ass Arya won't end up wrong on the dangerous part. Right now I would say both sisters are liabilities.

[Brian Fowler]

Dany feels more like the red herring...

Of course, it's also possible that the PTWP, AA, and TLH are all different people.

But Jon is born of ice and fire (Stark and Targaryen, he was reborn, he is leading a small contingent including a "dog" beyond the wall, and now we know he's a prince, not a bastard.

Plus, Rhaegar believed first that he himself was the PTWP before later coming to believe it would be his son*.

If it's not Jon, they have gone really far into tricking people.

Of course, if you really want to subvert fantasy tropes, Jon would indeed be the hero resurrected/returned... And then die anyway.

*Book spoiler that almost certainly won't affect the show

it's why Young Griff seemed, potentially at least, so important.

[Brian Fowler]

Don't forget, Robert used the war hammer. And he was very good at killing.

[BobbyWhioux]

The Heroes, not the hero.

It takes a team effort and nobody can do it alone.  Good soldiers do not make good kings.  Taking power and exercising power are completely different skill sets.  The series has been saying this since the start.

Robert was great at conquering but shit at ruling.  Dany has been pretty much the same only with awareness of needing to get better and/or surround herself with the right people.  Stannis was a great general but an awful politician.   Jon is actually the closest to having the full skill set on his own since has a certain charisma that makes people willing to follow him and accept his compromises/alliance building, but he has the same big blind spot to just how dastardly and dishonorable people can be, even in the face of Armageddon, that Robb and Ned had.  He doesn't really get that even halfway across the river the scorpion will sting his frog ass in the back.  Sansa can be that other side of the coin for Jon if they'd just get on the same page (which of course Littlefinger did his all to never let happen).  Similarly, Dany needs someone like Tyrion to administrate what she can and he can't conquer.  Even Cersei needs Jaime to be her general because as ruthless as she is in personal politics she's too impulsive and vindictive to spring stuff like surrendering Casterly Rock as bait.

Bran knows EVERYTHING but he literally can't even walk on his own and his body is a mostly useless shell.

Humanity must unite against the White Walkers or die because only as a team do they have all the skills to survive.

Courage isn't enough

Wisdom isn't enough

Charisma isn't enough

Willingness to forgive and to Trust isn't enough

Tactics and Logistics isn't enough

you need all of the above.

[Ace]

5 hours ago, Brian Fowler said:

I still think Tyrion as the third head is unlikely. Just too neat and convenient. But we'll see.

Tyrion's already faced a dragon.

[Pete]

10 hours ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

Lots to discuss from this week but first,  holy fuck at what next week is going to lay upon us wow  the fucking 1992 Dream Team 

Needs more of this.

When Drogon allowed Jon to touch him, I was so hoping for a jump cut to Jon balancing a treat on his nose.

[Craig H]

 

 

[Throat]

8 hours ago, Eivion said:

Eh, Arya never trusted Sansa. Keep in mind Sansa was on her list originally. Arya also isn't completely wrong. Sansa may have pushed for Jon to be leader, but she definitely thinks she could do a better job much of the time. Her support of Jon has been pretty much half-assed since the opening of the season. Arya doesn't see Sansa as evil so much as manipulative and dangerous which if Sansa doesn't do a better job of covering Jon's ass Arya won't end up wrong on the dangerous part. Right now I would say both sisters are liabilities.

Sansa was never on Arya's kill list.

[Throat]

I found it really frustrating that Jaime and Bronn didn't become prisoners of war. Tyrion obviously didn't presume them dead, since he later arranged a meeting with them. Why didn't they have the Dothraki surrounding that lake waiting for them to surface?

[BobbyWhioux]

1 minute ago, Throat said:

I found it really frustrating that Jaime and Bronn didn't become prisoners of war. Tyrion obviously didn't presume them dead, since he later arranged a meeting with them. Why didn't they have the Dothraki surrounding that lake waiting for them to surface?

Especially because that would've opened the door for Jaime joining the Inglorious Basterds which would've made the whole "get an audience with Cersei, show her a wight" part of this goofy scheme more likely to actually work instead of her just arresting/killing everyone.

[Playa Shunna Ver 3.0]

Prediction.  Jon and team get fucked up by the Walkers and retreat.  Jorah makes the ultimate sacrifice to serve his Queen and gets himself killed and becomes a Walker, which is who they bring to Cersei to prove they exist.  

 

Also, last week I wrote an email to a friend and jokingly said "I wonder what happened to Gendry".  Then as soon as my man Davos said he was going to Flea Bottom I thought, holy fuck he's gonna get Gendry to smith all the Dragonglass.  

[Brian Fowler]

4 hours ago, Ace said:

Tyrion's already faced a dragon.

I'm aware. I still think Tyrion also being a secret Targaryen is far too convenient.

I don't think anyone except Jon is coming back alive from that raiding party.

[Raziel]

Nah, Hound needs to stay alive for the Ceglane Bowl.

[Eivion]

1 hour ago, Throat said:

Sansa was never on Arya's kill list.

Its been so long. I thought she at least considered adding her name due to Sansa being aligned to the Lannisters after Ned's death.

[Throat]

It has been hard to keep track of since it's changed so much. Some died, some were added and some were dropped for no reason.

This article I read ahead of this season's premiere helped sort it out: http://www.vulture.com/2017/07/game-of-thrones-arya-kill-list.html

Although it's not entirely accurate. Her list is now just Cersei and The Mountain. Ilyn Payne seems to have been written out because the actor got cancer, which he now no longer has. Melisandre, Beric and Thoros were also dropped without explanation.

[Dolfan in NYC]

1 hour ago, Brian Fowler said:

I don't think anyone except Jon is coming back alive from that raiding party.

I'm thinking this is the case too.  Especially since we're almost at the end of season 7 and unsatisfying endings to characters is Game of Thrones' signature.  

Personally I hope at least Tormund makes it.   But if he does bite it, Brienne better shed a tear or 90 over him. 

[Brian Fowler]

I specifically don't think the rest are coming back (alive) because I think it's going to be where the show means heavily into the whole Last Hero myth.

I'm half relieved the Hound is there instead of Ghost as the dog.

[piranesi]

11 hours ago, Eivion said:

Did not see Gendry coming back and becoming a complete badass. That was awesome. As was the forming of the Dream team at the end.

Eh, Arya never trusted Sansa. Keep in mind Sansa was on her list originally. Arya also isn't completely wrong. Sansa may have pushed for Jon to be leader, but she definitely thinks she could do a better job much of the time. Her support of Jon has been pretty much half-assed since the opening of the season. Arya doesn't see Sansa as evil so much as manipulative and dangerous which if Sansa doesn't do a better job of covering Jon's ass Arya won't end up wrong on the dangerous part. Right now I would say both sisters are liabilities.

Arya didn't like Sansa for childish reasons when they were children. She's snooty or whatever. Kids are like that. Meanwhile they are now in charge of a kingdom.  Sansa has grown up and is trying to hold together a world-saving alliance with an absent King. Meanwhile Arya still sees things like a child "I don't like her. I wish she was dead. Oh, I'll kill her!" It's absurdly stunted thinking from a mental defective sociopath.

I don't know though what anyone would do differently so far in Sansa's place. Jon left this shaky alliance in her hands that was constantly on the verge of crumbling but also that the fate of humanity relied on and was like "Hold this together. I'll be back in a few weeks/months...oh, wait, I'm going north of the wall now and probably not telling you. See you in a year or probably never again. Good luck!!!"

The alliance people didn't want him to leave in the first place so he already left this notoriously difficult to control group who were recently on opposite ends of a brutal war already  grumbling on their part.

They eventually try to coopt her to betray him, probably mostly under the whispered encouragement of littlefinger. She says no but for Arya she didn't say no fast enough I guess and oh, she took the best bedroom so instead of backing her up in the face of a whisper conspiracy to corner her, why not just make things 100 times worse!

Arya brilliant advise delivered as if it was a religious dogman was  to immediately murder anyone who says anything mean about Jon, which Jon had just two episodes ago made clear is the opposite of what he wants. But this is immediate evidence to Arya that she is basically Cersei of the North. I wonder if Arya had seen Jon spare those two kids and pardon their houses if she would be like "You just want people to love you, you're clearly evil!"

 

Sansa is a neophyte politician tasked with doing the near impossible while surrounded by primitive lunatics and at least one active genius manipulator who wants to corner her into betraying her brother.

Arya is Billy Mumy in The Twilight Zone throwing murder tantrums over who's the prettiest.

One of these is problematic. The other is a fucking catastrophe.

I vote to replace Arya with Lyanna Mormont. Or with a trained bear.

[Craig H]

I think Jorah and Gendry are goners. And if Thoros dies, Beric dies too. So two at the least, 4 at the most. I just don't see Tormund, the Hound, and especially Jon Snow dying.

[Pete]

1 hour ago, Dolfan in NYC said:

I'm thinking this is the case too.  Especially since we're almost at the end of season 7 and unsatisfying endings to characters is Game of Thrones' signature.  

Personally I hope at least Tormund makes it.   But if he does bite it, Brienne better shed a tear or 90 over him. 

Tormund needs to survive just so we can have a bunch of hulking ginger kids running around at the end of the series.

[Craig H]

Yeah, they're leaving way too much on the table by having Tormund die now. There needs to be a scene where Tormund and Brienne fight together. Maybe they don't fall in love, but those two need to fight side by side at some point.