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Games of Thrones Unsullied thread


elizium
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I don't think in a million years Ramsay thought they'd be on the losing end. And they wouldn't have been without the Hogan run-in. But that's Jon too. A lot of bad luck for Snow but also a lot of good luck. Like how didn't an arrow hit him. It's the Lord of Light at work. It's in his hands.

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35 minutes ago, Brian Fowler said:

If Ramsey was really smart, he would have used the opportunity to put the arrow through Jon's eye as he charged in to make the save.

That would ignore Ramsay still being a chicken shit douchebag despite being an excellent swordsman and archer.  There is no way that Ramsay would risk trying to kill Jon himself and fucking it up only to have him eventually face Jon on the field.... even though Sansa took care of that...

Also in hindsight, not one single arrow fired from anyone ever came close to hitting Jon. The favor of the Lord of Light definitely shined on Jon that day.

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Cunt-by-numbers: The real winner last night was Tormund with 2 cunts and a twat and he gets 5 bonus cunts for calling Stannis a cunt.  Everyone gets 5 bonus cunts for calling Stannis a cunt.  This actually manages to put him well in the lead for the season.

A bizarre run for second place goes to Davos with his weird obsession with everyone shitting.

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1 hour ago, Matt D said:

There was zero downside to that. I thought, for a moment, that was his plan. It would have caused Jon's side to charge in anyway. It would have had the exact same effect upon his own troop's morale as killing a weaponless running-away kid anyway, so it's not like honor was a concern.

The downside is the whole Jon can't be killed now thing. The arrow would have clanked off something and Ramsey would look like a shitty shot.

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1 minute ago, Jrag said:

The downside is the whole Jon can't be killed now thing. The arrow would have clanked off something and Ramsey would look like a shitty shot.

It's a good thing for Ramsay that Maester Jrag of House YouKnowThatIKnowThat informed him of that fact.

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Oh he should have taken the shot for sure. It would have skewered a low flying bird or something tho.

The real opening to take the shot was when he shot out the giant eye. The giant already had a billion arrows in him, maybe shoot at the warlord covered in other people's blood standing next to him instead.

edit: beat me to it

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Just now, Michael Sweetser said:

With no remaining Bolton heirs, does this now make Sansa Wardeness of the North and Lady of Winterfell?

Bran is technically the rightful Lord of Winterfell, but most people believe him to be dead.  Sansa is next in line, then Arya, and then maybe Jon if the northern vassals don't object.  Ned was beloved enough that they probably would let his bastard son hold his seat, but bastards are generally outside of the line of succession.  Normally you need a royal decree for a bastard to inherit, unless there is not another legitimate heir.  

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1 hour ago, bink_winkleman said:

I assumed while watching that we were supposed to be in awe of how Snow was a magical/mythical creature, and his aura of invincibility was shining through. It never occurred to me that it might just be cheesy writing.

Oh they definitely made that clear. Not just the arrows and the charging army, but a ton of close calls happened once the ground combat started and he never once showed any fear or concern for his well being.

 

 

 

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I kind of think maybe his fearlessness is a part of having already experienced the pain, process, and outcome of death.  And maybe a little logical given the whole "The God(s) brought you back so you really have no control over what happens to you.  You will live as long as they need you and you won't die before that."

That's got to be a little liberating.

Also in terms of purpose.  He has none.  He has no future or desire that does not involve protecting other people.  Remnants of being a bastard, a crow, a corpse, and seeing everyone you remember of your past lives slaughtered.

The guy is a shell.  I'm interested, actually, to see what is left of the honor and morality Jon Snow of the 1st season, and the "learning to live free or die" Jon from beyond the wall.  Jon Snow as warden of the north now is not the same Jon Snow everyone fell in love with.  In some ways he's less.  There's less under there.

They'll probably just make him the same old lovable emo dude again.  But they might not and that could be interesting.

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So now that I finally got to sit and watch Bastard Bowl...

My lord that was some epic shit. Add to that we do not need Lady Stoneheart because Sansa earned that title by getting her revenge and getting the coldest line of the night.

 

If you don't think that Littlefinger isn't going to demand Sansa marry him for his help so he ends up Lord of Winterfell then you underestimate Littlefinger.

James

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1 hour ago, J.H. said:

If you don't think that Littlefinger isn't going to demand Sansa marry him for his help so he ends up Lord of Winterfell then you underestimate Littlefinger.

Littlefinger has been oddly sidelined for the past couple of seasons, considering that he really was the driving force behind more of the plot's happenings than practically any other single character.  Petyr Baelish was the mastermind behind the murder of Jon Arryn, might have had something to do with Robert's death too, betrayed Ned and put Joffrey on the throne, plotted to turn Renly and Stannis against each other to their mutual destruction, convinces the Tyrells to join the Lannisters and help win the battle of Blackwater, prevents Sansa's marriage to Loras, orchestrates the murder of Joffrey, kills Lysa, gains total control over young lord Robin, makes a pact with the Boltons via Sansa's marriage, and spills the beans about Lancel's affair with Cersei to the septons.  He's the ruler of both Harrenhal and the Vale, and now arguably has Winterfell in his sights as well.  That's a LOT of influence over huge chunks of the plot in Westeros, yet he's barely had anything to do and seemingly vanished out of the story for huge chunks of seasons 5 and 6.  

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4 minutes ago, Jingus said:

Littlefinger has been oddly sidelined for the past couple of seasons, considering that he really was the driving force behind more of the plot's happenings than practically any other single character.  Petyr Baelish was the mastermind behind the murder of Jon Arryn, might have had something to do with Robert's death too, betrayed Ned and put Joffrey on the throne, plotted to turn Renly and Stannis against each other to their mutual destruction, convinces the Tyrells to join the Lannisters and help win the battle of Blackwater, prevents Sansa's marriage to Loras, orchestrates the murder of Joffrey, kills Lysa, gains total control over young lord Robin, makes a pact with the Boltons via Sansa's marriage, and spills the beans about Lancel's affair with Cersei to the septons.  He's the ruler of both Harrenhal and the Vale, and now arguably has Winterfell in his sights as well.  That's a LOT of influence over huge chunks of the plot in Westeros, yet he's barely had anything to do and seemingly vanished out of the story for huge chunks of seasons 5 and 6.  

 

I think there is a little bit of a time issue.  I'm unclear on a lot of the timeline and I think it makes some people seem like they are inactive for longer than they are. 

Your list of stuff keeps him quite busy right up to Sansa's escape, which was...well, we're not sure how long after he left her with Ramsay...and then all of season six...well, we're not sure again are we, it could only be a month or so? Maybe even a few weeks.  So in real-time terms he's only been out of the loop for as long as it took him to gather the Knights of the Vale, entice Sansa to use them, and wait for the battle.

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3 hours ago, piranesi said:

I kind of think maybe his fearlessness is a part of having already experienced the pain, process, and outcome of death.  And maybe a little logical given the whole "The God(s) brought you back so you really have no control over what happens to you.  You will live as long as they need you and you won't die before that."

That's got to be a little liberating.

Also in terms of purpose.  He has none.  He has no future or desire that does not involve protecting other people.  Remnants of being a bastard, a crow, a corpse, and seeing everyone you remember of your past lives slaughtered.

The guy is a shell.  I'm interested, actually, to see what is left of the honor and morality Jon Snow of the 1st season, and the "learning to live free or die" Jon from beyond the wall.  Jon Snow as warden of the north now is not the same Jon Snow everyone fell in love with.  In some ways he's less.  There's less under there.

They'll probably just make him the same old lovable emo dude again.  But they might not and that could be interesting.

Another aspect that ties into this. It could simply be madness.

If we are right about Jon's parentage, a coin has been flipped. 

The battle itself was predictable, but Jon's actions really do open up so many possibilities. 

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If you think about it on the D&D scale, Jon Snow's development has been pretty astounding.

He started out learning from Ned about loyalty yes, but also about codes of duty and honor that were bound to the rules of civil society, such as it is in Westeros.  He went to the wall filled with those ideals: Lawful Good.

At the wall and beyond it he learned, both from the fucked up system of the Night's watch and from the very different codes and morals of the free folk to see through what of Ned's teaching was bullshit and what was real.  It reinforced loyalty and a basic sense of justice but overturned a lot of his belief in the social rules.  So moving to Neutral Good.

Then confronting even larger truths that were bigger even than the war between crows nd widlings and needing to fight a war that most of the world refused to believe was happening he was forced to take essentially outlaw measures, becoming a criminal in the eyes of the very watch he was leading: Chaotic good.

Suffering the betrayal and consequences of that, learning another truth, that all his morality and honor and the truth of his cause was repaid with failure and murder he came back changed again, not perhaps believing in anything, he finally movies the other side of the scale: neutral neutral?

And now confronted with a new set of outrages, a more personal set of goals to fight for, and seeing and living through the utter carnage that came from trying to live by any ideal whatsoever, and coming through it essentially berserk even to the point of tacitly offering up his enemy to Sansa so she could enjoy a proper mauling of him, he is what now? Chaotic neutral.

Not many steps left to work his way through the whole system. Although I don't see him ever going evil, who knows.  He hasn't much left to lose I guess.  Sansa? To watch his sacrifices lead to others he views as corrupt ascending to power (Littlefinger?)?

 

This is in comparison to a lot of other characters who have remained essentially the same.  Dany, for instance, I think has the same moral code and moral shortcomings she has always had.  Likewise Ayra.  Tyrion has been pretty stalwart as well, neutral good from the beginning. 

Jaime had a big development but then seems to alter his internal belief system based on which woman in his life he's nearest to.  Brienne brings out the Lawful good side and Cersei the chaotic evil side.  But I kind of get the sense now that he's always been like that and the season 2 stuff wasn't really a "development" just a pattern he falls into. He's a moral chameleon.

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14 hours ago, odessasteps said:

By the time its an issue, we may learn Jon's heritage is not what everyone thinks it is.

I honestly believe that will be the season finale cliffhanger.  Jon will return to Winterfell with Sansa and find out who his parents really are.

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As Baelish dropped off Sansa with House Bolton, he said that when Stannis overtakes Winterfell, Sansa would be Warden.  Of course, he also made a deal with Cersei to make him the Warden.  Since Cersei has little power in King's Landing atm, I imagine it's Sansa, though who knows what deal she may have made with Baelish to get his support.  Obviously even if there wasn't an explicit deal, Baelish didn't bring in the Knights of the Vale out of the kindness of his heart.

Moving to Meereen: What was the point of Tyrion freeing the other two dragons if they ended up just hanging out in the dungeon as if they were still chained up until the point that Dany came back, when she would have surely freed them anyway?  I guess it'll pay off with some Tyrion/dragon stuff in the future, but it seems weird at the moment.  Were people bringing food and water to the unchained dragons in the basement?

Also odd: when Dany came back last episode, it was nighttime, right?  She came in, and her dragon flew off for some reason.  Then they just waited around all night getting bombarded before she decided to tear shit up in the morning.  Oh well, at least that meant we got good lighting for the dragon attack.

Grey Worm slicing the two guys who didn't kneel was pretty great.  As was the wailing horde of Dothraki. 

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