John from Cincinnati Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 (edited) 37 minutes ago, J.H. said: Am I the only person who got the vibe that being King now is mostly a ceremonial position given who they gasve it to and the real power lies with the Small Council? Not quite that extreme. But power is shifting. Edited May 20, 2019 by West Newbury Bad Boy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 (edited) I don't think he has less power so much as he's less likely to wield his power. Edited May 20, 2019 by Brian Fowler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eivion Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 I liked the ending. The first half with Jon needing to come to terms with what needed to be done was powerful, and the second half was the solid politics needed to keep everyone from trying to kill each other immediately. Don't think they did everything needed to get there perfectly, but ti was enough for me. I do wish one of those upcoming spinoffs was following Arya exploring uncharted lands. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 3 hours ago, EVA said: Grey Worm has such a weird arc in this episode. Goes from being merciless and taking no prisoners on behalf of Dany...to literally taking prisoners (of the people that conspired to kill Dany, no less!) and standing around, getting dunked on by literally everyone at that meeting. And then, after becoming a genocidal asshole for two episodes, he gets a weirdly heroic ending, as the Unsullied are sailing off to protect Missendei's island. Just all over the place. I thought about that after the penultimate episode. It was going to be a major plothole once Dany was gone. You have the Dothraki and the Unsullied who have been with Dany forever and now crazy ass Grey Worm w/ an insatiable blood thirst. Jon does the deed and then Grey Worm is...sorta pissed? What in the entire fuck? I watched these motherfuckers come all this way with her...to go to Naath? How did Jon avoid getting the Catelyn Stark treatment once he was found and all hell breaking loose? Alright then, showrunners. 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 (edited) I liked that Sam suggested a democracy and they all laughed and said " Thats nuts, but a president? Ok." Complete with a Cabinet that cant get along. Edited May 20, 2019 by Johnny Sorrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxB Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 Where did the Dothraki go? Did they just remember the Night King killed them all? Offering the Unsullied the Reach was a smart play. It would be empty again in two generations' time... not sure they'd have accepted Bronn as Lord Paramount though. I knew Brienne would end up as Lord Commander of the Kingsguard. Not sure what happened to Mandon Moore's page, or Meryn Trant's. Or who the other five members are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneWolf&Subs Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 With the way everything was setup at the end, I hope the spin-off is set in the future, where fantasy meets cyberpunk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.T. Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 (edited) On 5/19/2019 at 10:22 PM, Raziel said: I'm, actually really ok with that ending. I am also very ok with that ending. Bran is interested in being king, but not necessarily in rulership. so the people who really run Westeros were sitting around that table right before the credits rolled. Finally, King's Landing has some competent heads of state. There is not enough love for the real world gaffes inserted into the script: Sam's suggestion of democracy or the title of the chronicle being A Song of Ice & Fire. One of the writers must haunt this board and saw our blistering criticism of Jon & Ghost's parting. That reunion was all kinds of tearful. Nice to see that someone found a copy of White Fang and read it. I am looking forward to the ADVENTURES OF ARYA STARK spin-off. On 5/20/2019 at 7:08 AM, LoneWolf&Subs said: With the way everything was setup at the end, I hope the spin-off is set in the future, where fantasy meets cyberpunk. There is nothing that can't be improved by the insertion of airships and sky pirates. On 5/20/2019 at 12:10 AM, EVA said: Grey Worm has such a weird arc in this episode. Goes from being merciless and taking no prisoners on behalf of Dany...to literally taking prisoners (of the people that conspired to kill Dany, no less!) and standing around, getting dunked on by literally everyone at that meeting. And then, after becoming a genocidal asshole for two episodes, he gets a weirdly heroic ending, as the Unsullied are sailing off to protect Missendei's island. Eh, he just saw the love of his life decapitated in front of his eyes and her last words were "Burn this fucking city to ashes," so he went on a vengeance kick and then sailed off to protect her people once the shooting stopped. A bit uneven, but it was interesting to note how war weary everyone was by the end credits, even the Unsulled and those fuckers LOVE to fight.. I was okay with how it all went down. Edited May 23, 2019 by J.T. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 18 minutes ago, J.T. said: There is not enough love for the real world gaffes inserted into the script: Sam's suggestion of democracy or the title of the chronicle being A Song of Ice & Fire. The best part of that was Sansa's amused look of derision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwoy2j Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 7 hours ago, EVA said: Speaking of coin, who the fuck hired Bronn to be Master of Coin? It doesn't make the slightest bit of sense that A) anyone would hire him to do it, or B) that he would agree to do it, if anybody even asked him. His only experience with coin is earning it by killing folks and spending it on whores. Tyrion literally had to explain how interest and money lending worked in season 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuerrillaMonsoon Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 So we've spent years building to the big secret of Jon's parentage and rightful claim to the throne...and its totally irrelevant. Even Varys' letters to this effect from the last episode was forgotten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 1 minute ago, RolandTHTG said: So we've spent years building to the big secret of Jon's parentage and rightful claim to the throne...and its totally irrelevant. Even Varys' letters to this effect from the last episode was forgotten. I mean... that's one take? Another take is that it drove Sansa to tell Tyrion and Tyrion to tell Varys and Varys to betray Dany, which that, combined with the sheer threat of Jon (who she loved), helped to drive Dany the rest of the way over the edge. Then, at the very end, it was part of what made it seem like Jon had a choice when so many others didn't. So it was actually key on multiple levels to the finish to the story they told. It just wasn't, you know, the story in and of itself. I get your frustration. I just don't think your statement was entirely accurate or fair to the story they did tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneWolf&Subs Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 (edited) 54 minutes ago, J.T. said: There is not enough love for the real world gaffes inserted into the script: Sam's suggestion of democracy or the title of the chronicle being A Song of Ice & Fire. I was disappointed it didn’t end with something like... Tyrion: Interesting... It doesn’t appear to be finished. Samwell: Well me, and Podrick we’re going to get together, and finish it. Tyrion: Have you ever been involved in something like this? Samwell: Not really... But me, and Podrick have worked on a few plays. Tyrion: I don’t believe that counts as a qualification for something as grand as this. Edited May 20, 2019 by LoneWolf&Subs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beech27 Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 (edited) I'm not really sure yet how I feel or what I think, whether to treat this as the ending or an ending. I'm probably most intrigued by ideas surrounding subversion and consistency and confirmation, and whether a work that is expected to do the anti-fantasy thing is, in fact, subversive by going for an ending that is both (realistically) blandly politically uniformitarian and very LOTR also. The corrupting thing is burned with magic fire as the hero who never wanted to be a hero or powerful fails but succeeds in that failing and then is whisked away to a land beyond because this place is just too trauma laden and can't be home anymore and then Arya literally sails west while dynastic politics continues more or less the same as ever while someone writes the whole frame narrative/book which is how the story has come down to us. There are very large essays to write about all that, but I can't quite get it straight in my own head. Also, can't wait for the sequel set ages in the future, when a mystical threat from beyond the wall rises, a name out of legend that the people take to be myth and metaphor because an undead ice zombie king with the last name Snow, come on. Edited May 20, 2019 by Beech27 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigertooth Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 6 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said: I thought about that after the penultimate episode. It was going to be a major plothole once Dany was gone. You have the Dothraki and the Unsullied who have been with Dany forever and now crazy ass Grey Worm w/ an insatiable blood thirst. Jon does the deed and then Grey Worm is...sorta pissed? What in the entire fuck? I watched these motherfuckers come all this way with her...to go to Naath? How did Jon avoid getting the Catelyn Stark treatment once he was found and all hell breaking loose? Alright then, showrunners. Yeah, they conveniently did a time skip over the period where the Unsullied and Dothraki reacted. I wonder exactly what Jon did after leaving the throne room. Did he immediately go and confess? With no body and no murder weapon? He could've said that Dany melted down the throne and flew off (she's randomly flown away before, so it's not implausible). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.H. Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 I'm still confused , how exactly did they know Jon killed Dani when there was no body? Please don't tell me Jon was dumb enough to confesss James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig H Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 8 minutes ago, J.H. said: I'm still confused , how exactly did they know Jon killed Dani when there was no body? Please don't tell me Jon was dumb enough to confesss James That's what I wondered as well and I took it as Jon was just that dumb to confess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVA Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, tigertooth said: Yeah, they conveniently did a time skip over the period where the Unsullied and Dothraki reacted. I wonder exactly what Jon did after leaving the throne room. Did he immediately go and confess? With no body and no murder weapon? He could've said that Dany melted down the throne and flew off (she's randomly flown away before, so it's not implausible). YES. THIS. This was my greatest frustration with the finale as purely an episode of TV: the most interesting conflict happened offscreen during the time jump. Everything after that is just epilogue, really. Did Jon turn himself in or try to escape? How did Team Dany initially react? What about all the Northmen, Davos, and Arya who were still in and around the city when it went down? Did they have to fight their way out after Team Dany found out what happened? Did they try to rescue Jon? How did the rest of the realm respond to the entire fiasco in King's Landing? And how did the Unsullied, and Grey Worm in particular, who have been nothing but killing machines under someone's command their whole lives, react to suddenly finding themselves in control of (the ruins of) a major city on the other side of the world? What do they even really want at this point--the first time in their lives that it actually matters (because it's certainly not terribly clear during the negotiation)? Edited May 20, 2019 by EVA 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 (edited) I get not understanding where the Dothraki went. That, to me, is a huge lapse. I like to imagine that they are sacking Highgarden and Bronn has to deal with it. I have no patience for people who think that Jon has the capacity or willingness to lie, especially about this. Did you actually watch the show? Edited May 20, 2019 by Matt D 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raziel Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 I imagine that Grey Worm isn't stupid, he knows that after they just burned the Capital City to the ground, and knowing that no one really wanted them there (and honest, he didn't want to be there either), that killing Jon right off when surrounded in a country where there's more people that want him alive than dead is not a great proposition, and getting permission from whoever was going to be in charge is a better prospect than asking for forgiveness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 There was a significant time jump. They say that the city is surrounded by northern soldiers. So basically what happens is Jon confesses and The Unsullied hold him and Tyrion captive but there is a standoff between them and the north. If Grey Worm wants to get everyone the fuck out of there he has to choose to be diplomatic in this situation and not do anything too drastic. He's in a tough spot we again are left to fill in the gaps which is again why this conclusion shouldn't have been 13 episodes. Sailing off to protect Missandei's homeland seems like a fitting conclusion for him. I think most of the characters ended up where they needed to be it's the how we got there that is going to be the issue moving forward because this debate is just getting started. These last couple seasons will be debated around message boards for the next decade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raziel Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 Yeah, Grey Worm gives the number of Troops he has occuping the city and Sansa shoots off that she has exponentially more surrounding it so fighting their way out is not a realistic option. Grey Worm at this point was only in it for the revenge and some remaining sense of purpose, and was already done with war before the Battle of Winterfell. While duty called for executing Jon, doing so signed his and the Unsullied's Death Sentences, so let the people staying behind make the call and agreed with the solution that allowed him and his men to get the fuck out. I imagine the remaining Dothraki were put on boats and shipped back to Essos, or they rode off and will be dealt with at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVA Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 (edited) A) You guys are having to carry all the water on this for Weiss & Benioff, which is not how good storytelling works. B). This issue isn't whether it makes sense as a plot point without being shown, the issue is that it would have been an interesting and highly significant character beat to see Grey Worm work all this out for himself. This is basically the denouement of his character arc (what little of one he was given): He's finally free to choose for himself, so what's he going to do with it? How does he react to this untenable situation he's been thrust into? What's that experience like for him? What does he really want out of this? That's the shit that makes stories great, not plot math. But they skipped it. Probably, as with most of the issues this season, because they didn't give themselves enough episodes. Edited May 20, 2019 by EVA 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Throat Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 On 5/14/2019 at 2:18 PM, Throat said: He damn well better pet his dog then. My demand was met. I'm fine with how this ended. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.T. Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, EVA said: : He's finally free to choose for himself, so what's he going to do with it? Does he want to do anything with it? The Unsullied have known nothing but combat since Dany broke the wheel way back when.... and they've never been happier. What is the first thing that the Unsullied do after the war is pretty much over and they have true authorship over their own lives? Set sail to Missandei's isle to "protect it." In short, go someplace where it is highly likely they will find another fight. Grey Worm is happiest when he is either fighting or preparing to fight. Edited May 20, 2019 by J.T. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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