Games of Thrones Unsullied thread

[J.T.]

56 minutes ago, Craig H said:

I mean...people can also find a mate that doesn't drive them crazy...

And doesn't inspire them to do dumb things, but to just be better in general....

Men do dumb shit for the women they love.  it's in our DNA.

You don't just go out facing down dragon supported Dothraki cavalry or pushing kids out of tower windows for mother fuckers you just like and what guy doesn't enjoy the sight of his woman fawning over him after he's done performing some fang bearing alpha wolf bullshit?

Two things a guy loves to hear his woman say are, "Thank you,  baby," and "Let me get you another cold beverage."

The key is to be with a woman that is grateful for the dumb shit you do on her behalf and as Jaimie said, he and Cersei were hateful, incestuous peas in a pod. Like figuratively and literally cut from the same cloth.

Sketchy as their relationship was I imagine that Jaime and Cersei's spirits soared when they were together at the end. 

I would feel sorry for them if I didn't feel that it was poetic justice for them to be buried under the rubble of the kingdom their family ruined.  Also, incest is nasty.

The whole thing with Cersei and Jaime makes me wonder how Varys kept from making a snarky comeback when he discussed Dany and Jon's relationship with Tyrion.

"But she's his aunt."

"That's never stopped a Targaryen before, has it."

It didn't stop a Lannister either, eh Halfman?

Edited May 16, 2019 by J.T.

[Beech27]

 

[supremebve]

15 hours ago, AxB said:

The moral of the story is this: If you spend your leisure time getting drunk and shagging prostitutes, you will be a witty, ingenious and responsible person. However, if you then switch to a life of sobriety and voluntary celibacy, you will lose both wit and wisdom in a heartbeat.

 

The Golf discussion is in the Sports folder.  You are talking about Tiger Woods, right?

14 hours ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

She was also carrying their baby.

Was she?  I'm about to break this down.  She first claimed to be pregnant before Jon and his band of misfits went north to capture a wight.  So, she has to be at least a month or so pregnant, just to know that she's pregnant.  Travelling to the wall from Winterfell is about 650 miles, which is a long ass trip, especially in the winter.  If they walk 20 miles a day, which is generous in those conditions it would take 32.5 days just to get to The Wall.  So, then they have to wander around beyond the wall for who knows how long before they find anyone.  Then they fight a pretty big battle and have to walk back to the Wall, let's say that is another 30 days...remember the weather up there was absurdly bad.  So, they have to walk from The Wall, which is 650 miles north of Winterfell to King's Landing, which is about 1500 miles from Winterfell...that's 2150 miles in the winter.  Let them keep their 20 miles a day pace, which once again is generous in the winter, that is 107.5 days.  Then they have to walk back to Winterfell, that is a cool 75 days.  Then they have to call the banners and prepare for the battle of Winterfell which has to take a couple of months, because Winterfell is literally far as fuck from everything.  Give that another 60 days.  Now they fight the battle of Winterfell, have a party, and with a tired, battle-worn army, and march another 1500 miles back to King's Landing.  That 75 days has probably stretched out to 90, because they can't possibly travel as fast after the battle.  OK, let's add that up...395 days...that's over a year.  Not only has she not had a child, she hasn't gained a pound, and she's been binge drinking the entire time.  

[EVA]

43 minutes ago, supremebve said:

 

Was she?  I'm about to break this down.  She first claimed to be pregnant before Jon and his band of misfits went north to capture a wight.  So, she has to be at least a month or so pregnant, just to know that she's pregnant.  Travelling to the wall from Winterfell is about 650 miles, which is a long ass trip, especially in the winter.  If they walk 20 miles a day, which is generous in those conditions it would take 32.5 days just to get to The Wall.  So, then they have to wander around beyond the wall for who knows how long before they find anyone.  Then they fight a pretty big battle and have to walk back to the Wall, let's say that is another 30 days...remember the weather up there was absurdly bad.  So, they have to walk from The Wall, which is 650 miles north of Winterfell to King's Landing, which is about 1500 miles from Winterfell...that's 2150 miles in the winter.  Let them keep their 20 miles a day pace, which once again is generous in the winter, that is 107.5 days.  Then they have to walk back to Winterfell, that is a cool 75 days.  Then they have to call the banners and prepare for the battle of Winterfell which has to take a couple of months, because Winterfell is literally far as fuck from everything.  Give that another 60 days.  Now they fight the battle of Winterfell, have a party, and with a tired, battle-worn army, and march another 1500 miles back to King's Landing.  That 75 days has probably stretched out to 90, because they can't possibly travel as fast after the battle.  OK, let's add that up...395 days...that's over a year.  Not only has she not had a child, she hasn't gained a pound, and she's been binge drinking the entire time.  

[AxB]

I don't know if @J.T. ever watched Oz, but I bet if he did, his favourite scene was the one where McManus was arguing with Ryan O'Reilly. "If you love someone, that means you want them to be happy. That doesn't mean you murder their fucking husband!" "Then maybe you've never really been in love"

[J.T.]

1 hour ago, AxB said:

I don't know if @J.T. ever watched Oz, but I bet if he did, his favourite scene was the one where McManus was arguing with Ryan O'Reilly. "If you love someone, that means you want them to be happy. That doesn't mean you murder their fucking husband!" "Then maybe you've never really been in love"

I did indeed watch Oz and I thought that was some great shit.

I really do think that the turning point in their inbred relationship came when Jaime failed to secure revenge for the poisoning of their daughter and Cersei had to take vengeance in her own hands... lips... whatever... 

I think that's when she lost her respect for the Kingslayer and that's when Euron cheerfully jumped in to fill the void.  

Cersei's a lunatic.  Euron's a lunatic.  Like Attracts Like.

Edited May 16, 2019 by J.T.

[Throat]

How differently would things have played out for Jaime if he hadn't happened to walk in on Sansa and Brienne talking about Cersei striking a major blow against the resistance? Was that all a setup on Sansa's part? She planted the seeds in the dumbest Lannister's mind that Cersei now had the advantage in the coming war AND that she'd die for what she had done. He would either try to kill her to prevent the war or try to save her. Either way, it gets him out of Sansa's home and likely leads to his death. As she said a few episodes ago "Men do stupid things for women. They're easily manipulated." Her teacher would've been proud.

As always, I could be giving the writers too much credit.

[supremebve]

6 minutes ago, Throat said:

How differently would things have played out for Jaime if he hadn't happened to walk in on Sansa and Brienne talking about Cersei striking a major blow against the resistance? Was that all a setup on Sansa's part? She planted the seeds in the dumbest Lannister's mind that Cersei now had the advantage in the coming war AND that she'd die for what she had done. He would either try to kill her to prevent the war or try to save her. Either way, it gets him out of Sansa's home and likely leads to his death. As she said a few episodes ago "Men do stupid things for women. They're easily manipulated." Her teacher would've been proud.



As always, I could be giving the writers too much credit.

Yeah, but what does Sansa actually gain from that?  Sansa trusts Arya, Bran, Brienne, and Tyrion more than anyone else.  Jaime gets the cosign from Brienne and Tyrion, Arya doesn't have any reason to dislike him, and Bran has forgiven him.  She'd be sending away one of the few competent people around to defend Winterfell if shit goes bad.

[CSC]

21 hours ago, jaedmc said:

I thought when he made fun of Varys for not having testicles we were going to get that Tyrion back....then he hid in a basement like a punk.

That whole thing was so confusing.

So he has his conversation with Sansa, gets the dagger and ... we never see it again?

I thought for sure at that point he was going to be a goner trying to defend the women and children from walkers.

edit: Oh God ... he's totally taking out Dany with that dagger and after he does Jon is gonna be all "I KNOW THAT DAGGAH"

Edited May 16, 2019 by CSC

[Throat]

2 minutes ago, supremebve said:

Yeah, but what does Sansa actually gain from that?  Sansa trusts Arya, Bran, Brienne, and Tyrion more than anyone else.  Jaime gets the cosign from Brienne and Tyrion, Arya doesn't have any reason to dislike him, and Bran has forgiven him.  She'd be sending away one of the few competent people around to defend Winterfell if shit goes bad.

Could've been an easy Cersei kill. Maybe it was also a test of his devotion to her friend Brienne. I'm sure Sansa values her opinion, but enough to forget everything Jaime had done? Tyrion vouching for his brother and only friend in the world doesn't mean much, and his suggestions have been pretty awful for a long time. Bran didn't so much forgive him as move beyond human concerns like holding grudges. If I were her, I'd be uneasy about having a Lannister, especially the one who was closest to Cersei, staying in Winterfell with so much of their forces away at war. He left Cersei and came to Winterfell to fulfill his promise to fight for the living. With that fulfilled, she'd have to be concerned about what his future plans were.

[supremebve]

5 minutes ago, Throat said:

Could've been an easy Cersei kill. Maybe it was also a test of his devotion to her friend Brienne. I'm sure Sansa values her opinion, but enough to forget everything Jaime had done? Tyrion vouching for his brother and only friend in the world doesn't mean much, and his suggestions have been pretty awful for a long time. Bran didn't so much forgive him as move beyond human concerns like holding grudges. If I were her, I'd be uneasy about having a Lannister, especially the one who was closest to Cersei, staying in Winterfell with so much of their forces away at war. He left Cersei and came to Winterfell to fulfill his promise to fight for the living. With that fulfilled, she'd have to be concerned about what his future plans were.

I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have been satisfied with Jaime's arc unless he either lived happily ever after with Brienne, or sacrificed himself to rid the world of Cersei, so maybe I'm close-minded to anything other than that.

[Throat]

1 minute ago, supremebve said:

I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have been satisfied with Jaime's arc unless he either lived happily ever after with Brienne, or sacrificed himself to rid the world of Cersei, so maybe I'm close-minded to anything other than that.

I had hoped for the same.

[Craig H]

41 minutes ago, Throat said:

I had hoped for the same.

Me too. I think most fans would agree.

[TheVileOne]

I always imagined Jaime would strangle Cersei to death and then kill himself as his final act of redemption.

[odessasteps]

15 minutes ago, TheVileOne said:

I always imagined Jaime would strangle Cersei to death and then kill himself as his final act of redemption.

Yeah, something like that. Or she would poison him and he would kill her before it took effect. 

[Throat]

Subverting expectations is a big part of what made this show so fun to watch throughout its run, but what's the harm in doing the expected every now and then? Especially for a character who had been on such a long redemption arc. His end was unexpected, but I wasn't shocked and amazed. It just bummed me out.

I did really like his final scene with Tyrion, though. I wish he didn't say he never cared for the innocents, considering he saved them from the Mad King, but maybe he was just putting up a villainous front so his decision to return to his evil sister didn't seem so dumb.

[TheVileOne]

 

[tigertooth]

At one point during the destruction of King's Landing, I had a flashback to the execution of Ned Stark.  In re-watching, I get it.  There was a moment right after Dany went ham and Grey Worm followed when the camera was on Jon and he was clearly like "WTF, I was honorable and whatnot, yet everything went to hell?" At that moment, the sound of everything around Jon went mute and all you could hear was his breathing.  Looking back at Ned's execution, the exact same thing happened.  It's like that's the moment when each Stark man realized that being true to his word led to a complete clusterfuck. 

[AxB]

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/quiz/2015/apr/11/game-of-thrones-quiz

80 question quiz. I got 79 right, and the one I got wrong I swear the quizmaster was mistaken

Spoiler

How many Kings/ Queens of Westeros has Varys served. I said 5, meaning Aerys, Robert, Joffrey, Tommen and Daenerys. They thought the correct answer was 4, not including Daenerys. 

 

[cwoy2j]

I got 71/80. I didn't know much about what other shows the actors have been in and missed a couple of random questions.

[supremebve]

14 hours ago, Throat said:

Subverting expectations is a big part of what made this show so fun to watch throughout its run, but what's the harm in doing the expected every now and then? Especially for a character who had been on such a long redemption arc. His end was unexpected, but I wasn't shocked and amazed. It just bummed me out.

 

Subverting expectations only works when the subversion is a payoff for something else.  The Red Wedding worked because we were introduced to Walder Frey as an ill-tempered, prideful man.  More than a book/season goes by before we're introduced to this ill-tempered, prideful man in the most ill-tempered and prideful way possible.  I once had a professor explain writing as building a wall.  She said, "anyone who knows the language and can hold a pencil can build stack bricks, but good writing is mortar."  My issue with this season of Game of Thrones is that there is no mortar.  The books/show introduces a shitload of characters, some minor, some major, and some that will never be seen again.  When they introduce a character like Walder Frey, you don't know where it is going to lead, but he has a name, a personality, and some character traits that lay the groundwork in case he comes back around.  There are thousands of those characters sprinkled around the books.  Lyn Corbray is a homosexual Knight of the Vale, who was introduced in Game of Thrones during Tyrion's trial.  He volunteers to fight Bronn (Corbray has a Valerian Steel Sword named Lady Forlorn.  He killed Lewin Martell of the Kingsguard during Robert's Rebellion.  He probably kills Bronn in seconds), but is refused.  He isn't seen again until Feast for Crows, and may or may not have a bigger role going forward.  Who knows if he's actually an important character, but if you want to tell a story this complex that is the kind of mortar you are going to need so the walls don't fall down.  The television show cut so much of that stuff out, that the walls are just piles of bricks.  They keep stacking these bricks, but it's becoming more and more clear that there is nothing holding them together. 

So when Jaime runs back to Cersei directly after he finds out that she tried to have him killed parts of the wall start crumbling down.  When you go to the wall and ask, "Why is Jaime going back to her?" or "Did we need that Bronn subplot?" or "Why did Jaime do all that other stuff, if he's just going to run back to Cersei?" You start looking between the bricks and find that there's nothing there.  There is no character moment, conversation, a character from the past, or anything else that lays the groundwork for that decision.  So it just feels like the showrunners are screaming, "Gotcha," and it isn't satisfying.

[Throat]

7 minutes ago, supremebve said:

So when Jaime runs back to Cersei directly after he finds out that she tried to have him killed parts of the wall start crumbling down.  When you go to the wall and ask, "Why is Jaime going back to her?" or "Did we need that Bronn subplot?" or "Why did Jaime do all that other stuff, if he's just going to run back to Cersei?" You start looking between the bricks and find that there's nothing there.  There is no character moment, conversation, a character from the past, or anything else that lays the groundwork for that decision.  So it just feels like the showrunners are screaming, "Gotcha," and it isn't satisfying.

Perhaps they should've had Cersei hire Bronn to kill only Tyrion. It would've warmed Jaime's heart to hear she didn't want him murdered as he probably expected she would. Gotta go back to her!

I've never been more upset with this show than the "gotcha" moment of Littlefinger's death. So much was left out that could've helped make sense of it just for the sake of shocking the audience. D&D pushed a wall of loose bricks down on us and yelled "Surprise!" The surprise lasts for a moment. The disappointment with how poorly it was executed lasts a lot longer.

[Craig H]

Boy, if you really don't want this final season ruined even more, don't watch the very first episode. Half of the episode is about the white walkers. That is the opening mystery. Hell, that's how the first episode starts. It is the first gong of the doomsday bell.

I sat there watching the episode thinking about how much the white walkers didn't even mean anything. For everyone in this thread who said the white walkers were just a representation of death or how they weren't really that important or whatever...Y'all got it wrong. I don't really care what was in the books and I understand that the books just makes them sound like a fairy tale, but in the TV show, they are the central, overarching threat. Go back and watch those first episodes. You'll see.

It makes me feel like the best way to handle the threat of the white walkers would be to make some of the stuff from episode 7 happen much earlier. Basically, when they get past the point where the books end, that's where the story with the white walkers and the Night King should have ended. Of course, you have to find a way to have the Night King take over Viserion, but maybe you just create another macguffin, like the dragon horn or whatever to take down the wall. Make it a season finale type thing where you play it up that the world will never be the same again.

And then from that point, you start really getting into the meat of Dany going mad, Cersei being the big bad, etc. It would at least make this season all about that stuff with the white walkers a distant memory, but at least their disappearance wouldn't be cheapened. You need to have more space between each apocalyptic event. When you go from one right to another it feels cheap and unearned.

[Beech27]

You could have fixed a lot by switching the conflict order at the end. Dany goes crazy and takes the throne, and the disparate parties have to balance their horror with the knowledge that they need her to defeat the pending apocalypse. The central conflict—that the game of thrones is a game, distracting from the real problem—comes into sharp focus. 

[supremebve]

47 minutes ago, Craig H said:

Boy, if you really don't want this final season ruined even more, don't watch the very first episode. Half of the episode is about the white walkers. That is the opening mystery. Hell, that's how the first episode starts. It is the first gong of the doomsday bell.

I sat there watching the episode thinking about how much the white walkers didn't even mean anything. For everyone in this thread who said the white walkers were just a representation of death or how they weren't really that important or whatever...Y'all got it wrong. I don't really care what was in the books and I understand that the books just makes them sound like a fairy tale, but in the TV show, they are the central, overarching threat. Go back and watch those first episodes. You'll see.

It makes me feel like the best way to handle the threat of the white walkers would be to make some of the stuff from episode 7 happen much earlier. Basically, when they get past the point where the books end, that's where the story with the white walkers and the Night King should have ended. Of course, you have to find a way to have the Night King take over Viserion, but maybe you just create another macguffin, like the dragon horn or whatever to take down the wall. Make it a season finale type thing where you play it up that the world will never be the same again.

 And then from that point, you start really getting into the meat of Dany going mad, Cersei being the big bad, etc. It would at least make this season all about that stuff with the white walkers a distant memory, but at least their disappearance wouldn't be cheapened. You need to have more space between each apocalyptic event. When you go from one right to another it feels cheap and unearned.

Yeah, the entire season feels anticlimactic because everything has to happen at once.  It's kind of like how you need a throwaway match between main events on a wrestling show.  What do you mean about the White Walkers not meaning anything?  Between the two major conflicts of the show, that is the one that was at least a competition.  Sure, Cersei was last, but they were defeated before the battle even started.  The White Walkers were literally a second away from ending all life in Westeros.  If it wasn't for a faceless man trained assassin, who somehow survived the worst of the fighting, and was inspired by a red priestess coming out of nowhere with a Valryian steel blade, they would have won.  If Arya was able to make it back to Winterfell after her dad was beheaded, they would have lost.  They were more than a legitimate threat.  If it wasn't for all the pain and suffering that the Stark children went through they would have won, and won easily.