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Games of Thrones Unsullied thread

elizium

By elizium
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AxB

AxB

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There's a theory that every Trai by Combat in the story is actually decided on the side of Justice. To wit: Bronn vs Ser Vardis Egen over Tyrion's guilt the death of Jon Arryn, Bronn wins, and it later emerges Tyrion was innocent. The Hound vs Beric Dondarrion, over the Hound's guilt of murder: The Hound wins, and technically he was following orders or defending imself every time he killed to that point. The Viper vs the Mountain, that's where it gets tricky. But if you assume that that fight is over at the point the Mountain is fatally injured, that trial is over and Tyrion's innocence over the death of Joffrey is proven. But then because Oberyn constantly accuses Sandor of the rape and murder of Elia Martell, that then begins a second trial by combat, which the Mountain wins, because... he was always innocent of killing Elia.

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AxB

AxB

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3 hours ago, Brian Fowler said:

I'm curious... He even admits to killing and raping her, where's the "he's innocent" part come from?

Tyrion admits to killing Joffrey, doesn't mean he did it. nb: It's more of a book theory than a show one. People think Kevan Lannister probably did it, because he's one of the nice Lannisters, and it's GRRM.

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Dolfan in NYC

Dolfan in NYC

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So Bran (or Ian Hempstead-Wright) told Variety that they cut a scene from the finale that was supposed to fill in Arya/Sansa motivations/etc.

Spoiler

Basically, Sansa remembers, hey, Bran is the Three Eyed Raven and he can confirm what Littlefinger is saying about Arya's plot to kill me. The 3 Eyed Raven tells her everything about Littlefinger and that Arya's fine.  Which leads to her turning on Littlefinger in the court. 

Jesus Christ, am I glad they cut that.  

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Throat

Throat

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7 minutes ago, Dolfan in NYC said:

So Bran (or Ian Hempstead-Wright) told Variety that they cut a scene from the finale that was supposed to fill in Arya/Sansa motivations/etc.

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Basically, Sansa remembers, hey, Bran is the Three Eyed Raven and he can confirm what Littlefinger is saying about Arya's plot to kill me. The 3 Eyed Raven tells her everything about Littlefinger and that Arya's fine.  Which leads to her turning on Littlefinger in the court. 

Jesus Christ, am I glad they cut that.  

So Arya was legitimately threatening to murder her sister and wear her face the week before, but now everything's cool between them. I would've preferred that the Starks had been in on it the entire time, as dumb as that would be. It was the less awful of the two possible explanations for this ill-conceived storyline.

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Brian Fowler

Brian Fowler

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5 hours ago, AxB said:

Tyrion admits to killing Joffrey, doesn't mean he did it. nb: It's more of a book theory than a show one. People think Kevan Lannister probably did it, because he's one of the nice Lannisters, and it's GRRM.

That seems highly unlikely to me.

Especially given that Kevan is dead and revealing that would seem to serve literally no story purpose at this point. It's not like removing that crime would suddenly make Gregor any less of a complete monster.

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BobbyWhioux

BobbyWhioux

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14 hours ago, AxB said:

There's a theory that every Trai by Combat in the story is actually decided on the side of Justice. To wit: Bronn vs Ser Vardis Egen over Tyrion's guilt the death of Jon Arryn, Bronn wins, and it later emerges Tyrion was innocent. The Hound vs Beric Dondarrion, over the Hound's guilt of murder: The Hound wins, and technically he was following orders or defending imself every time he killed to that point. The Viper vs the Mountain, that's where it gets tricky. But if you assume that that fight is over at the point the Mountain is fatally injured, that trial is over and Tyrion's innocence over the death of Joffrey is proven. But then because Oberyn constantly accuses Sandor of the rape and murder of Elia Martell, that then begins a second trial by combat, which the Mountain wins, because... he was always innocent of killing Elia.

Oberyn was able to prove Tyrion's innocence by defeating/mortally wounding Gregor Clegane, but he was not able to survive pursuing his personal vendetta because that fell outside the scope of that particular trial, so he was on his own (and as it happens Gregor was able to inflict a more immediately fatal wound on Oberyn).  Tyrion was on trial. Gregor was not; he was the opposing lawyer (for lack of a better term).  Gregor's Objection (his crimes are irrelevant to Tyrion's innocence/guilt) Sustained in the eyes of the gods/Justice.

That's how it fits. :)

 

 

 

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BobbyWhioux

BobbyWhioux

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1 hour ago, Brian Fowler said:

I understand that. I've read the books. It still makes no sense to me. Bobby's answer makes some, but still seems like a stretch.

Well I won't dispute that. :)

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A_K

A_K

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On 30/08/2017 at 11:25 AM, AxB said:

There's a theory that every Trai by Combat in the story is actually decided on the side of Justice. To wit: Bronn vs Ser Vardis Egen over Tyrion's guilt the death of Jon Arryn, Bronn wins, and it later emerges Tyrion was innocent. The Hound vs Beric Dondarrion, over the Hound's guilt of murder: The Hound wins, and technically he was following orders or defending imself every time he killed to that point. The Viper vs the Mountain, that's where it gets tricky. But if you assume that that fight is over at the point the Mountain is fatally injured, that trial is over and Tyrion's innocence over the death of Joffrey is proven. But then because Oberyn constantly accuses Sandor of the rape and murder of Elia Martell, that then begins a second trial by combat, which the Mountain wins, because... he was always innocent of killing Elia.

Thats a stretch.

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supremebve

supremebve

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As someone who has read the books multiple times, there is no evidence whatsoever that someone other than Gregor Clegane raped and murdered Elia Martell.  It was him, everyone knows it was him, no one even insinuates that it is anyone but him, and it is 100% in his character to rape and murder a woman in the most brutal way possible.  

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driver

driver

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On 8/30/2017 at 2:48 PM, Throat said:

So Arya was legitimately threatening to murder her sister and wear her face the week before, but now everything's cool between them. I would've preferred that the Starks had been in on it the entire time, as dumb as that would be. It was the less awful of the two possible explanations for this ill-conceived storyline.

They did an episode of Dragon Pool Karaoke, so it's all good.

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BobbyWhioux

BobbyWhioux

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There's apparently a deleted scene where Bran gets Arya and Sansa to bury their legit heat, which presumably they cut so as to preserve the surprise pivot by Sansa to charging Littlefinger.

7 hours ago, supremebve said:

As someone who has read the books multiple times, there is no evidence whatsoever that someone other than Gregor Clegane raped and murdered Elia Martell.  It was him, everyone knows it was him, no one even insinuates that it is anyone but him, and it is 100% in his character to rape and murder a woman in the most brutal way possible.  

The only room for debate is whether Tywin specifically ordered a hit on Elia, too  (Tywin claims to Tyrion that he didn't tell Gregor NOT to kill her and back then he didn't realize what he had in Gregor.  I think we're supposed to smell bullshit, but that's a personal inference.  Elia "got over" on the Lannisters way back when by being picked to be Rhaegar's wife instead of Cersei.)

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offspring515

offspring515

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Posted

Some of the theories that come up on the message boards dedicated to the books are so strange. Just people willfully ignoring evidence, clues, and common sense to say "But what if R+L=J isn't true...and Jon's real father is time traveling Bran!!!"

I guess it's just the amount of time between books has allowed people to discuss them to death and now to kill time they come up with whatever bizarre nonsense possible and strain like hell to connect the dots.

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BobbyWhioux

BobbyWhioux

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9 minutes ago, offspring515 said:

I guess it's just the amount of time between books has allowed people to discuss them to death and now to kill time they come up with whatever bizarre nonsense possible and strain like hell to connect the dots.

This, and sometimes an inflated sense of "SUBVERSION!  GRIMDARK!  THE BADGUYS WIN! GEORGE IS A SADIST" caused by the books not being finished (and the babyface comeback not being written yet), is the bane of the fandom.

Lotta cabin fever.

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Craig H

Craig H

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I re-watched the finale and something really stuck out to me.

I'll preface this by saying that until now, I never watched any of the "BRAN IS THE NIGHT KING OMG" videos on YouTube, but I'm watching that ending and man, the next shot of the crows flying over the wall felt like a huge red herring/misdirection. Every other time Bran wargs into something, they show that animal under Bran's control. Except for this time with the murder of crows flying around. Not to mention, why is he watching the wall at that particular moment anyway? The Wights and White Walkers haven't even exited the woods yet and somehow Bran knows to watch this exact spot? He doesn't have future sight. He can only see the past and the present. So...

The Wights and White Walkers roll up and then here comes the Night King. Bran isn't shown again and the Night King does his thing. At that moment it really felt like Bran was under the control of the Night King, or was the Night King, or like there was more of something there between Bran and the Night King than Bran seeing everything from the crows POV.

I then watched a couple of the Bran is the Night King videos and some of the ideas or hypotheses mentioned don't add up. Not completely anyway.The stuff at the finale just sticks out to me though.

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