odessasteps Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 One of my friends asked if Ser Pounce followed him out the window? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiji Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 Ser Pounce is Azor Ahai, so no. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigertooth Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 So what was Jon Snow thinking in regards to Melisandre? I could understand putting her to death. I could understand keeping her around, like she was suggesting (and possibly out of a sense of debt since she brought him back). But why would he just let her go? The Arya scene just underscored how they screwed up her storyline through this season, especially towards the end of her time in Braavos. If that was the end point they were shooting for (and it was a great ending point), they really could have aimed for it better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bink_winkleman Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 On 6/23/2016 at 1:20 PM, BobbyWhioux said: Exactly. It's not a good thing. As wrestling fans, we should know the difference between a clean win an and winning because a run-in cost your opponent the match. This was the latter. Jon's forces got wiped out and he almost died himself. Littlefinger was probably hoping a long enough wait would give Jon enough time to "die heroically", but even without that, waiting until attrition made his army a non-factor relative to his is close enough. Military wise, Ramsay kicked Jon's ass. He took the bait, his plan got ruined, and his forces took massive losses. They would've been wiped out, had not Littlefinger bailed them out with a run-in. Jon and Sansa didn't rally the north and take their home back so much as Littlefinger gave it to them. He hit Ramsay with a chair and dragged Jon on top of Ramsay for the pinfall. And Jon/Sansa are beholden to him for it. [Well okay visually Jon got to finish Ramsay off personally with a ground-and-pound, but you know what I mean]. He laid the groundwork for this several episodes back in this season, last time he talked to Sansa directly. 1] Sansa is (rightly, by now) paranoid about depending on "trusted" others to protect her. 2] Not deeply explored in the show but semi-hinted during their reunion: of all the Stark siblings, Jon and Sansa were the least close growing up. They started out in this season with Sansa apologizing to Jon for past instances of "being an ass to [him]." They don't have the base level of warmth and trust that you'd see with, say, Jon and Arya, or Jon and Robb, or Jon and Bran and/or Rickon. Jon's a bastard and doesn't fit in with Sansa's sheltered (spoiled?) world view she started the series with. They're not "reconnecting", they're connecting for the first time, just about. Jon/Sansa is, then, the pair of Stark siblings Littlefinger would best be able to drive a wedge between. And that's exactly what he does when he starts talking up how Jon's army is not necessarily hers, and implying that Jon would double cross her. Jon wouldn't. We the audience know Jon wouldn't. Sansa doesn't really know Jon wouldn't. So with her fragile trust eroded just that much, she withholds the info from Jon. Brienne (think of her as a physical representation of Sansa's conscience, in a way) calls her out for this, later. Sansa doesn't have a good answer. Later, Sansa sends Brienne away to recruit The Blackfish. Littlefinger told Sansa about that opportunity, too. Separated from her conscience and with that bit of a wedge between her and her brother, Sansa goes all in on doing things Littlefinger's way. Wittingly or no, she plays right into Littlefinger's hands. His army isn't hers either. And the army that would be hers (through Jon) is wiped out. She is back to being dependant on Littlefinger, and now Jon is too if he survives Bastardbowl (and if he doesn't quite make it, even better, from Littlefinger's perspective). Any reward LF might request for this service, Sansa basically has to give him as it stands right now. Maybe she didn't have much choice, since Ramsay, like a good heel, would never have fought that battle if he didn't think he knew he'd win (superior numbers, planned psychological edge on Jon with using Rickon as bait) and so if The Vale showed up early Ramsay would've holed up in Winterfell from the start. Sansa knew this about Ramsay. So she had to make sure Ramsay didn't know rThe Vale sneak attack was coming, and she figured (probably correctly) that Jon would've given that away if he knew, so Jon couldn't know it was coming either (and thus Jon's army had to function as bait for Ramsays, and take heavy losses). The question is, did Sansa fully get duped by Littlefinger? Or is she being more complicit with Littlefinger (either genuinely or because she's utimately swerving him, too, and when will that happen). The shots of her smugging up with Littlefinger and smirking as she walked away from Ramsay being ripped apart by his own dogs sure could function as hints that Sansa is going to double cross Jon (and at least one person I talk show with thinks this is coming, now). Will Jon be mad about not being told, since the heavy losses jeopardize EVERYTHING from his perspective (White Walkers are coming) and deepen the wedge between Jon and Sansa for Littlefinger's benefit. Or, is Sansa actually about to swerve Littlefinger, not yet tipping that hand to Jon, or us the audience even, yet? But you're right, because this isn't a clean win and take back of Winterfell for Team Stark, yet. Sansa could make it one if she double crosses Littlefinger at this point, now that she's used him to get what she wants. Though that requires her first stealing the Vale army from him (possible, she might have a way with her cousin Robin, and Lord Royce would certainly be happy to get rid of Littlefinger) or find a new one somewhere (unlikely, there doesn't seem to be one). To truly get their home back for themselves, Jon and Sansa have to really work together. And Littlefinger, of course, is trying to prevent them from being willing/able to do that, except through/under him. I normally wouldn't quote for length, but DAMN SON YOU NAILED IT! Disagree with Piraneesi up there that Sansa was looking to protect Snow. She's got a heel turn coming. Didn't really care for Margeary doing the dumbshit politicking with the Sparrows, so glad she got hers. Glad Cersei's victory turned out to be hollow, too. Arya was mark out moment of the century. I'm totally over the characters taking red-eyes around the globe, so that didn't bother me at all. Plus, as a faceless man, I'm assuming she's on the move like a super human. I am in love with all the bitching about her "pointless" training and all of the contradictions turning out to be a swerve. Euron is going to be the Big Bad that's not made of ice going forward, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVileOne Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 The inspiration for the jump. I guess we know why they call it King's Landing though, amirite fellas? I guess the North kinda remembers now. Varys going from Mereen to Dorne straight back to Mereen in the space of about 10 minutes was bullshit. Unless you are establishing teleportation powers in this show. Does Casterly Rock have any trump cards left? There's Clegane and Jaimie, but Daenaerys has three dragons, 100 ships from the Iron Fleet, and the Unsullied. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piranesi Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 If it wasn't for Arya teleporting at this point I would be willing to sketch out a theory where Littlefinger and Varys can teleport around because they are basically good/evil demigods making and controlling a wager about whether moral order or selfish self-destructiveness is a stronger force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig H Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 She has ships from the Iron fleet and the remaining ships from the masters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVileOne Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 OK and what does King's Landing have? It looks like Cersei used all her wildfire oil on the Faith Militant. They are wildly in debt to the Iron Bank. So I guess they have the Lannister and King's Guard forces. They have Jaimie Lannister, and they have zombie Clegane. They don't have any top level strategists or military leaders. Jaimie was beaten by Robb Stark. Bronn's cunning and smart, but he can't win this war for them. Plus they have a Mad Queen. I just see no single strategic advantage for Team Lannister at this point, other than maybe she will marry Euron or something and form an alliance with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 I believe the wildfire was placed all over the city. The Lannisters can't do shit in a straight battle but they might be able to set a couple traps. But honestly they will be hope spots at best. They are there to do the job. Someone had to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hail Sabin Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 Hopefully Melisandre was sent away to heal Jorah Mormont. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eivion Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 I'm pissed Margery died, but there was so much awesome shit in this episode i can't be too angry. Lady Mormont is so damn great. Arya's vengeance was just fantastic. The whole build to the death of the Faith Militant was brilliant. I could go on and on, but there was just way too much greatness happening. The only things I wasn't big on was the weird time jumping (surely this could have been pulled off a little better) and as mentioned before Margery's death. I'm excited for what comes next season even though I know its likely a whole lot of anger and sorrow over favorites biting it because way too much good shit happened here. We are more than likely not getting anything this satisfying again. I suspect most of the coming victories will be Pyrrhic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hail Sabin Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 Just watched the finale again but this time noticed Tyrell ships in the ending scene . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxB Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 Martell, not Tyrell. Red Sun & Black Spear on a yellow field. The Tyrell emblem is a gold rose on a green field. Also, if Jon Snerr is now King in the North, and then Bran (Ned's actual son) comes back from beyond the wall, does Jon have to abdicate in favour of Bran? A legitimate son always inherits first, bastards aren't included in the succession unless they're legitimised by royal decree. Although technically that means Jon could just legitimise himself right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hail Sabin Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 I saw green flags with gold in the center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Sweetser Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 1 hour ago, AxB said: Martell, not Tyrell. Red Sun & Black Spear on a yellow field. The Tyrell emblem is a gold rose on a green field. Also, if Jon Snerr is now King in the North, and then Bran (Ned's actual son) comes back from beyond the wall, does Jon have to abdicate in favour of Bran? A legitimate son always inherits first, bastards aren't included in the succession unless they're legitimised by royal decree. Although technically that means Jon could just legitimise himself right now. If R+L=J has been confirmed, wouldn't that make Jon a Targaryen and the rightful king over even Daenerys at this point? Honestly, the lines of succession fascinate me. And it looks like whoever theorized that Cersei was actually next in succession was dead on, assuming this wasn't just a hostile takeover of the Iron Throne after killing literally EVERYONE. Fucking amazing episode. Forget Jon, I'm bending the knee for the true QUEENINDANORF, Lyanna Mormont. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrag Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 It was a hostile takeover for Cersie. Assuming Rhaegar and Lyanna wed in secret....Jon is a Prince's son, Dany is the King's daughter. Think she still has him beat on the succession, but not 100% on that. I'm working with the theory that they were married, because it makes more sense for the Kingsguard to be there after the Prince is dead if they are protecting an heir. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcosLoura Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 Rhaegar was already married though, Westeros is not Utah. Also it's so weird when the show goes full meta regarding the Sand Snakes, that Queen of Thorns beatdown was so silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Sweetser Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 Exchanging barbs with the Queen of Thorns is rarely a good idea, especially when you're rookies at it. Olenna ate them for lunch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piranesi Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 46 minutes ago, Jrag said: It was a hostile takeover for Cersie. Yeah Cersei is queen now because she has 1) the Mountain 2) a recent rack record of being able to kill everyone in her way whoever wants to stand against that go ahead and raise your hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.H. Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 To my understanding of Primogenitor Inheritance with titles, it goes to the first available Male heir if he so wishes to claim it. Dany being daughter to the last Targaryen King makes no difference, if Jon is recognized as the primary Male then he would be offeredthe crown first. Of course given the Targaryen propensity for keeping it in the family, Dany and Jon could marry to "strengthen the bloodline". If I'm wrong in my understanding of this please correct me James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 40 minutes ago, MarcosLoura said: Rhaegar was already married though, Westeros is not Utah. Also it's so weird when the show goes full meta regarding the Sand Snakes, that Queen of Thorns beatdown was so silly. Westeros is Utah, Aegon the Conqueror married two of his sisters. They stopped doing that, because the faith had a problem with it, not because it is illegal. Being that the faith just burned to death, and Dany is being supported by the followers of R'hllor, I don't think that will come up. Jon would be next in line over Dany, because it goes from King to the first born, to the first born's children. Rhaegar's children are before his siblings. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyWhioux Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 Hopefully Arya remembers to spring Uncle Edmure out of prison, since she just murdered all his captors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Sweetser Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 The last scene will be Edmure in the cell saying "Hello?" 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 Jon is still a bastard as far as we know. So Dany is still the rightful heir, although he wouldn't be the first bastard to stake a claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piranesi Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 Eh, she should gut him just for drill. As satisfying as Arya's scene was, it was about as believable as Frank Drebin ripping off his mask and beating up the Ayatollah. Her character right now is literally operating at Drebin-level. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts