SMACKDOWN LIVE IS BAD HAIR VS. WORSE

[tbarrie]

I sort of want to see that now, yeah.

 

[NikoBaltimore]

Quick notes:

-Tag and women's titles look awesome and I'm looking forward to the matches leading up to the initial champions.  AA/Breezango was super fun, I'm a bit baffled at how AA's getting backlash.  They're going to be champs and rightfully so.  However, I kind of hope Slater/Rhyno somehow pull off the win so Heath has a job.  Do it for the aboveground pool, man!

-In response to Sky Blue Sam's post about Becky, I get they're going with the steampunk vibe.  I think they could stand to add more to it so it's not mainly turd brown.  But honestly, she's still super attractive so I sure didn't mind either way.  On top of that it was a damn good match.  Speaking of attractive, Renee's been looking especially good the past couple weeks and she's doing a helluva job on the talk show.  I feel with the sense of direction all the women have they're all doing meaningful stuff that will build over time.  I like Carmella and every impression I got is she's an absolute sweetheart.  But it's about time they turn her and I look forward to her feud with Nikki.  The follow up on Talkin' Smack was aces.

-The main event was good and maybe it's me but Ziggler wasn't as annoying as he normally is.  That said, glad AJ won and that should be a fun title match.  As for Talkin' Smack, hot damn is that a good show.  The Miz/Daniel part of the show has been discussed quite a bit, but all I'll say is they sure had me fooled for a bit.  It seemed awfully real in a so-called worked environment.   Very compelling stuff though.

[evilwaldo]

21 minutes ago, JCM said:

So now people are turning on AA and saying they were carried I've heard it all now. They never had anything less than a good match in NXT including a pretty badass match with green as grass Authors of Pain. I guess that was Ryhno and Corbin carrying them to a great match in the tag classic last year.

I can't wait for Asuka to show up and have a few mediocre matches with Carmella and Nattie so people can say she was carried in NXT.

It is a whole different world when you are up on the main roster as opposed to NXT.

18 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

True but there's the 5% chance it did go beyond what was intended and they are going to run with it anyway because it got people talking. This is a great look for the network too. Talking Smack has almost become must-see TV.  Whether it was intended or not, this could be a nice win for the network.

More like 50%.  When Bryan brought up working soft that was the moment they went off script.

I think Bryan is 100% incorrect with his comments and he should watch what he says regarding other wrestlers working soft given all of the garbage the WWE put up with when he was trying his holistic healing methods over surgery for months on end.  The WWE did him a favor putting up with his BS and letting him come back at the top of the card.

 

 

As for Becky's steampunk apparel.  Welcome to steampunk where everything is turd brown or rust.  I love the genre but yeah the colors leave much to be desired.

[JCM]

When did WWE let Bryan come back at the top of the card? I remember him being thrown out early in the Rumble, and opening Mania in a cluster ladder match.

Yeah the main roster is a different animal, and Gable and Jordan are pretty inexperienced. However, when someone says a team that had good matches for a year with every team they worked with were carried I have to call bullshit.

[evilwaldo]

After his injury they slotted him back into the main event area.  The other stuff was just to make sure he was over as a sympathetic face with the fans.  Bryan never left the top of the card.  The fans were still doing 'yes' chants over and over for weeks.

[Jiji]

20 minutes ago, tbarrie said:

I sort of want to see that now, yeah.

 

I mean, outside of the Undertaker series last year, watching Brock matches have more or less been akin to Romans watching Christians being fed to the lions. 

[Cristobal]

9 minutes ago, evilwaldo said:

After his injury they slotted him back into the main event area.  The other stuff was just to make sure he was over as a sympathetic face with the fans.  Bryan never left the top of the card.  The fans were still doing 'yes' chants over and over for weeks.

This is a fascinating view of history. They slotted him back into the main event area by having him work 10 minutes of the Rumble and get eliminated 11th to keep him a sympathetic face with the audience (cuz he was in real danger of losing the crowd) and having them shit on the Rumble the next 30 minutes.

[RRR]

Maybe AJ can get Corbin as a bodyguard by getting him a Bosley treatment to fix his hair. 

I can already see Baron's inset promo before his best of 5000 match with Dolph.

"I cut this hair, I comb this hair, I mess this hair up if I want to. THIS is MY hair." 

 

(I watch too much El Rey) 

[(BP)]

 

[Wyld Samurai]

9 minutes ago, JCM said:

When did WWE let Bryan come back at the top of the card? I remember him being thrown out early in the Rumble, and opening Mania in a cluster ladder match.

Yeah the main roster is a different animal, and Gable and Jordan are pretty inexperienced. However, when someone says a team that had good matches for a year with every team they worked with were carried I have to call bullshit.

I think there's a difference between being carried and working a match by the #'s. Up until their last 2 matches against The Revival you could say that all of Aa's matches followed the exact same model. They went almost a year running the same shtick that they rehearsed who knows how many times in the PC. If anything it was a gift and a detriment to Jordan's development as he became a programmed robot woth his hot tags.

[NikoBaltimore]

10 minutes ago, Zartan said:

Maybe AJ can get Corbin as a bodyguard by getting him a Bosley treatment to fix his hair. 

I can already see Baron's inset promo before his best of 5000 match with Dolph.

"I cut this hair, I comb this hair, I mess this hair up if I want to. THIS is MY hair." 

 

(I watch not enough El Rey) 

FTFY as there's never enough El Rey.

[The Green Meanie]

Re: AA

I admit I don't know them as much as other fans, as I hadn't seen a lot of their work on NXT other then when they were on Breaking Ground and SDL since the draft. They wrestle pretty good but their personalities are pretty terrible, Jordan being the more annoying of the two. They remind me of two college jocks that won't shut up about how good they are at sports, like the kinda guy that's reminiscing about his athletic days ten years later while hanging out at the local high school, not the good annoying jocks like Nowinski or Alex Riley were. (the Varsity Villian!)

[Sammo~!]

11 minutes ago, NickMD said:

FTFY as there's never enough El Rey.

Its Monster Mash Sword and Sorcery Flying Death Punch Zombie Revenge Bare Knuckle Grindhouse High School High Tough Guy Tuesdays. Only. On the El Rey network

[Trocar Slush Weasel]

13 minutes ago, The Green Meanie said:

Re: AA

I admit I don't know them as much as other fans, as I hadn't seen a lot of their work on NXT other then when they were on Breaking Ground and SDL since the draft. They wrestle pretty good but their personalities are pretty terrible, Jordan being the more annoying of the two. They remind me of two college jocks that won't shut up about how good they are at sports, like the kinda guy that's reminiscing about his athletic days ten years later while hanging out at the local high school, not the good annoying jocks like Nowinski or Alex Riley were. (the Varsity Villian!)

That's why they were originally cocky heels and were pretty good at it.  I don't remember the point where people switched on them and turned them face.

[Dewar]

42 minutes ago, Cristobal said:

This is a fascinating view of history. They slotted him back into the main event area by having him work 10 minutes of the Rumble and get eliminated 11th to keep him a sympathetic face with the audience (cuz he was in real danger of losing the crowd) and having them shit on the Rumble the next 30 minutes.

He main evented the PPV after the Rumble, and was positioned to be the guy carrying the Smackdown television show until the career ending injury happened. Was he put back in the exact same spot he had before? No. Was he still considered to be a top 5 guy in the company? Yes. Was bringing him back for the Rumble a shitty idea? Fuck yes.

[Kyuubi]

I saw the Miz promo, and I'll say this about the Miz's career.

He is like the Will Smith of wrestling. Not the actor. I mean the rapper. He is safe and digestable, but I never really was invested in anything he did in the ring. Better comparison, in terms of action stars, the Miz is like Steven Seagall in the face of a Jackie Chan, Bruce Lee, Jason Stratam, Jet Li, Iko Uwais, Tony Jaa or anybody who is actually skilled. I am sorry, but I can't think of a Miz match that I watched because of him. His best match was Daniel Bryan and what has he done in that ring since? He is only as relevant as the guys he is in the ring with. I honestly forgot that there was an intercontential title shot at Summerslam(although it was against Apollo Crews, but still). He has excellent character and mic work and I will never take that way from him, but can you truly say that you watched a Miz match because you wanted to watch Miz? Very few can and that is cool, but I can't say I have. There is no intensity in his matches, and yeah, I do believe that a lot of workers in the WWE need to cut the shit and work within their means i.e. Sasha Banks, Sami Zayn, and Seth Rollins. There is no reason why Seth Rollins needed to powerbomb Finn in that barricade and it still puzzles me as to why that spot happened. It was unnecessary and nobody in the crowd wanted it but even appreciated it. But Miz saying that? Okay, if Daniel Bryan were to get miraculous medically cleared and he was going to debut tomorrow, the WWE audience would collectively lose their shit. It can be now or ten years from now, but that is how much Daniel Bryan means to them because in the sadly short amount time he spent in the WWE as an active wrestler, 1 year with Bryan meant more than Miz's entire career. Sasha Banks , in the short amount of time she has been in the WWE, has had more classic performances than the Miz. The Miz is vanilla as hell in that ring and it has nothing to do with him being safe, but the fact that he is not interesting or unique is the problem. Yeah, he gets to keep coming to the WWE and "perform" in front of  fans, but okay...I barely noticed that you were here.

I am terribly sorry that a generation of wrestlers decided to look up to Dean Malenko, Eddie Guererro, Rey Mysterio, Ultimo Dragon, Jushin Liger, and etc instead of Hulk Hogan, Kevin Nash, The Rock and Stone Cold. I am sorry that the Miz decided to look up to those people while a squadron of nerds wanted to do the cool looking shit and acquired the skill or moxy to do so. I feel bad that I would rather guys shut the fuck up and get in that ring and wrestle because you are never going to be as interesting as the Rock circa 2000-2003. They don't do cocaine and blow anymore so we aren't going to get those super charged promos like we did in the 70s, and 80s. Do I feel bad that wrestlers are being pressured to do spots that are fucking insane to get a reaction? Hell yeah. I don't want people to do Jeff Hardy spots every goddamn night. Even at house shows. Fucking house shows. But be honest here, would you rather have a hundred Miz-esque workers? Because the first thing that popped in my mind thinking about that was post-2005-2008 WWE where Rey Mysterio was probably the only guy that did Lucha moves and everyone else pretty much worked the same way. And that is when those indy promotions thrived because they were offering an alternative to the stupid shit that the WWE was peddling.

And it is not about just being safe because there are plenty of WWE wrestlers who are safe and interesting. AJ Styles as of late is pretty goddamn safe compared how he was in 2002-2007 and he is still getting nagging injuries. There is no spot that I can see that AJ does is reckless. Roman Reigns is safe, and for the most part is interesting enough in the ring or people to actually want to watch him in ring. Dolph Ziggler is safe even with his terrible offense and predictable spots, he still conveys enough interest than the Miz. The Revival are safe and smart and interesting and represent the best of the WWE style and I am more invested in their matches than I have ever been in Miz's sans anyone else who is actually interesting in that ring with him.

And using Daniel Bryan is terrible because he has always had health problems that stemmed outside of wrestling. Even his reason he turned to veganism was due to dietary issues and his physical health. It's placing unfair blame on people who are willing to perform because in all honesty, there is no truly hundred percent way to land on your back a hundred times a week "safely." Our bodies are not fans of falling on our asses and no amount of training is going to fix that. Yeah, you can spread the impact out and dissipate from a single point, but you are still in general going to feel those drops if you do it a million times a year. If the strongest man in the world took a tryout for a few days and realized the harsh demands that a wrestler takes at day to day, and said fuck that noise, I would rather train for the World's Strongest Competition, there is a goddamn problem. I am pretty sure Jackie Chan would look at the WWE tour schedule and be like "I would rather slide down a building with no ropes again, then do this shit day in and day out." Maybe they should not be working as much as they do? Maybe guys like Sami Zayn, Cesaro, and Daniel Bryan should not work 365 days a year or anybody for that matter especially if you have an entire roster of people that can mitigate the workload? You say that the fans ask, no, demand for a pound of flesh, but what of the company? 

[RIPPA]

AA became faces after Summerslam last year

Honestly - I think they were "technically" heels all the way to the Dusty Classic match against Rhyno/Corbin and they were faces by default and the crowd was over huge for them so they were suddenly faces

[JCM]

Well in NXT the fans got to take the journey of Jordan looking for a tag partner, and the promos where Gable would try and sell himself as the ideal partner. Then finally he gets a chance and they win where Jordan had been losing with his other partners. So the fans were already invested in the act by the time they debuted. On the main roster it's "here's this act as a finished product". The matches will be fine they just have to find the right balance of character work, and to be fair someone like Becky got more character development on the MR than NXT so it is possible.

[NikoBaltimore]

I'm hoping AA get a chance to show that.  As beloved as they were in NXT when they did the sit down interview before winning the tag titles you felt for them.  I'm hoping they have a chance to show how much all this means to them, and how much it meant when they finally won the titles.  There's a chance they'll get that opportunity, but until that I'm hoping that people catch on and see what makes these two pretty darn special.

[evilwaldo]

37 minutes ago, Dewar said:

He main evented the PPV after the Rumble, and was positioned to be the guy carrying the Smackdown television show until the career ending injury happened. Was he put back in the exact same spot he had before? No. Was he still considered to be a top 5 guy in the company? Yes. Was bringing him back for the Rumble a shitty idea? Fuck yes.

Having him go out in the Rumble early was the best thing for his character coming back because it reinforced his underdog status.

[SirSmUgly]

6 minutes ago, evilwaldo said:

Having him go out in the Rumble early was the best thing for his character coming back because it reinforced his underdog status.

In a vacuum, this argument is valid.

In reality, that's not at all what the audience wanted or expected. They viewed Bryan as a top guy, not an underdog. There was pretty obvious dissonance there when you put that booking decision in context.

But this is well-tread ground.

Part of what will also help American Alpha is for Gable to get a bit better at FIP. I don't think he emotes enough physically or facially. Jordan's a great hot tag, but the hot tag will be more meaningful if Gable's out there dying before he makes it. 

[Wyld Samurai]

Jordan is nothing but a tongue wangling, straps down hot tag. There was that one moment in the 2of3 where he was the FIP... but it's so played out. 

[Sammo~!]

Maybe if they took the Steiner Bros comparison to its logical conclusion and just started making up suplexes on the fly and murderizing jobbers. (I know we just had an in depth discussion about safety but I still love early 90s Steiners. I don't actually want AA to kill people.)

[evilwaldo]

23 minutes ago, Smelly McUgly said:

In a vacuum, this argument is valid.

In reality, that's not at all what the audience wanted or expected. They viewed Bryan as a top guy, not an underdog. There was pretty obvious dissonance there when you put that booking decision in context.

But this is well-tread ground.

Which is why it worked.  Bryan going out early created a tremendous amount of face heat which fed into the following PPV.  

Instead of thinking from the smark POV you need to look at this from the promoter POV.  Massive success.

[SirSmUgly]

9 minutes ago, evilwaldo said:

Which is why it worked.  Bryan going out early created a tremendous amount of face heat which fed into the following PPV.  

Instead of thinking from the smark POV you need to look at this from the promoter POV.  Massive success.

OK, there's the rub: It didn't work from a promoter's perspective. It just helped to destroy the push of the face that won the Rumble and then beat Bryan cleanly on the following PPV. That's because the promoter didn't look at it from the fan perspective. 

But let's just agree to disagree because we are still talking about that fuckin' angle! It was like three years ago! I suppose from the perspective that people still talk about it, the angle was a success, huh?