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Elsalvajeloco

UFC 202: Diaz vs. McGregor II (8/20/2016) - Las Vegas, NV (T-Mobile Arena)

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I thought Conor was done for in Round 3, he was completely gassed and Nate threw some bombs. He was able to weather the storm and kind of ride out the last 2 rounds.

All i could think of was all his talk before the fight of "having more in the tank this time" was going to get thrown back in his face but to be fair to him he found another half tank to get through 4 and 5.

What was telling for me is that Conor had Nate on the ground 3 or 4 times and never went in for the kill, was he scared Nate would take him to the ground if he did? If so, then he definitely learned a bit from the first fight. 

Whats Conors standing like with US fans after that? He's got redemption in eyes of fans here (ireland) but i feel US fans and pure MMA fans in general will have more respect for him after that.

Diaz is a warrior, his show of respect at the end was one of the subtlest and classiest things ive seen. 

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The original UFC 200 main event was Nate Diaz vs. Conor McGregor 2 but it didn’t happen over disagreements between the UFC and Conor. UFC 202 hosted the rematch and as a show was better than UFC 200. Be interesting to compare the two for buys. UFC big draw Brock Lesnar and the milestone UFC 200 to another big PPV draw in McGregor and the rematch of the newsworthy first fight when Nate beat Conor by rear naked choke in the second round at UFC 196. In the end Conor won the rematch by majority decision. I scored it 48-47 Conor. The two are tied and there will be the decider at some point.

In the co-main event Anthony Johnson KTFO Glover Teixeira by uppercut in 13 seconds of the first round. Johnson has scary knockout power. Also scary is that he fought at Welterweight when Light Heavyweight is the weight class he should fight in. Rumble should get the next UFC Light Heavyweight Championship shot, fuck Bones. Poor Daniel Cormier having to fight Johnston again.

A favourite fighter of mine, Donald Cerrone beat Rick Story in the second round with a diverse combo of strikes. Cerrone is now 3-0 as a Welterweight, all three finishes.

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5 hours ago, AxB said:

I have seen (stupid) people suggesting Diaz jobbed on purpose to guarantee himself a third big payday. I don't buy it. If he wanted to take a dive, he'd have taken a dive. Not stayed in there trying to win for all 5 rounds.

I thought -- and stated as much in this thread -- before the fight that that would be the only way McGregor gets him - Diaz tumbling for a third payday that would be greater than anything else he'd get for most of the rest of his career combined. McGregor gave the impression of having emotionally cracked prior to the fight, and its still outrageous to me that a man at featherweight in a professional combat sport jumps 25 lbs in less than 10 months and goes on to beat a top fighter at that weight. But it was too intense to be that. Maybe Nate got complacement. I'm amazed he didn't register a takedown until the final seconds of the fifth. I was also surprised to see those early knockdowns when he was comfortable with Conor's power in the first fight, and surprised that he wasn't closer to putting McGregor on the mat with his own strikes. Conor clearly won 3 rds there though, so very fair victory. Got to think McGregor wins again at 155 -- but who knows,

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It seems clear to me from last night's press conference that McGregor has no plans to defend the belt ever again.  Ideally, he shouldn't be stripped.  But then what the hell do you do with the featherweight division?  

OK guys.  Look Conor McGregor is the featherweight champion.  So that's just how it's going to be from now on.  McGregor stays featherweight champion and you all just permanently fight for the interim belt until the end of time.  

McGregor can't say he's going back down to defend the belt and then say, I won't fight Aldo again because he lost in 13 seconds.  Well, that dude's the interim champion.  So you can fight him, or you can fight Max Holloway, who you also beat in 15 minutes.  Those are the realistic options. 

Or he can let go of his belt and just move on from featherweight for good.

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4 hours ago, A_K said:

I thought -- and stated as much in this thread -- before the fight that that would be the only way McGregor gets him - Diaz tumbling for a third payday that would be greater than anything else he'd get for most of the rest of his career combined. McGregor gave the impression of having emotionally cracked prior to the fight, and its still outrageous to me that a man at featherweight in a professional combat sport jumps 25 lbs in less than 10 months and goes on to beat a top fighter at that weight. But it was too intense to be that. Maybe Nate got complacement. I'm amazed he didn't register a takedown until the final seconds of the fifth. I was also surprised to see those early knockdowns when he was comfortable with Conor's power in the first fight, and surprised that he wasn't closer to putting McGregor on the mat with his own strikes. Conor clearly won 3 rds there though, so very fair victory. Got to think McGregor wins again at 155 -- but who knows,

I don't know if it was the early leg kicks or whatever "injury" Nate may or may not have had coming into the fight, but his defense was much less dynamic in the 2nd fight than the first.  Generally he's a guy who gets hit, but never really gets hit hard but last night he was getting raked repeatedly.  The fact that he's been around this long and still can't figure out how to defend leg kicks is kind of crazy when you think about how good he is at almost every other aspect of fighting.  He is an elite grappler, has some of the best boxing in the sport, and has a great mind for how to chain his boxing defense in order to consistently outland his opponents.  He just can't seem to stop his opponents from crippling his lead leg. 

McGregor going up in weight is really one of the more amazing things I've seen in combat sports.  On the Sherdog Beatdown After the Bell, they were discussing how big some of the lighter weight fighters are outside of the cage.  McGregor would probably be a 185-190 lbs. man if he wasn't constantly training, so it's not that surprising that he could fight at 170.  I think the crazier thing is that he's been able to cut down to 145 so many times. 

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40 minutes ago, TheVileOne said:

It seems clear to me from last night's press conference that McGregor has no plans to defend the belt ever again.  Ideally, he shouldn't be stripped.  But then what the hell do you do with the featherweight division?  

OK guys.  Look Conor McGregor is the featherweight champion.  So that's just how it's going to be from now on.  McGregor stays featherweight champion and you all just permanently fight for the interim belt until the end of time.  

McGregor can't say he's going back down to defend the belt and then say, I won't fight Aldo again because he lost in 13 seconds.  Well, that dude's the interim champion.  So you can fight him, or you can fight Max Holloway, who you also beat in 15 minutes.  Those are the realistic options. 

Or he can let go of his belt and just move on from featherweight for good.

Forget the belt. You're too hung up on it. Enjoy the fights. 

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I think it obviously he wants to fight at 155 now. Aldo should just be declared full time champion.

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32 minutes ago, glfpunk said:

Forget the belt. You're too hung up on it. Enjoy the fights. 

I can't.  Just like Bret Hart, I'm a belt mark.

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What a great fight. Finally fighters who talk shit and then back it up. No Rashad Evans or Chael Sonnen here.

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22 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

Garbrandt blows through Mizugaki and calls out Cruz. With Dillashaw's win over Assuncao not setting the world on fire, is that the next bantamweight title fight?

I hope so. I love well built grudge matches.

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18 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

Thank god Joe Silva is the matchmaker so he can do a ton of things you hate.

Man no wonder Elsalva is the leader of this forum. Right on the money.

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10 hours ago, glfpunk said:

Forget the belt. You're too hung up on it. Enjoy the fights. 

The scraps have been great but any idiot can earn a living being punched in the face.  You get into the fight game to be a champion as well as an earner; not just an earner.

I suppose the problem has to do with the talent gaps in the divisions.  Some are stacked and some have alpha champions that run through the division in no time flat.  Mighty Mouse is on a 9 or 10 fight win streak as the Flyweight champ and half of those wins were finishes.

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I don't think it's so much the talent gaps but that some people move the ppv buys than others and get bigger purses because of it. Rousey did pretty good as a pay per view draw, didn't she? During her run there was a bigger perceived skill gap than in the flyweight division or during Silva's run.

I have to disagree with the idea of 'anybody can be punched in the head for a living' - sure, but there's something to be said about working your way up to the point where you can get a massive payday for it. Even before the Diaz series, anybody would have lined up for a fight with McGregor because you know you were gonna get PAID for it. There are realistically very few fighters who get that attention so it's not like these types of dream matches will ever be more than rare. I bet if Diaz could go back and have fought for the LW title with the same results (win the title, lose the rematch) he probably would have still preferred to stick with this reality even if it means never winning the title. He's probably made 2-3 times as much money and has another huge pay day in his future.

Titles are great and all but if you have the opportunity to basically set yourself for life from one or two fights, you've gotta jump on that opportunity.

 

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17 minutes ago, Setsuna said:

I don't think it's so much the talent gaps but that some people move the ppv buys than others and get bigger purses because of it. Rousey did pretty good as a pay per view draw, didn't she? During her run there was a bigger perceived skill gap than in the flyweight division or during Silva's run.

I have to disagree with the idea of 'anybody can be punched in the head for a living' - sure, but there's something to be said about working your way up to the point where you can get a massive payday for it. Even before the Diaz series, anybody would have lined up for a fight with McGregor because you know you were gonna get PAID for it. There are realistically very few fighters who get that attention so it's not like these types of dream matches will ever be more than rare. I bet if Diaz could go back and have fought for the LW title with the same results (win the title, lose the rematch) he probably would have still preferred to stick with this reality even if it means never winning the title. He's probably made 2-3 times as much money and has another huge pay day in his future.

Titles are great and all but if you have the opportunity to basically set yourself for life from one or two fights, you've gotta jump on that opportunity.

 

I think the championship is a legacy thing.  You can be a great action fighter for your entire career.  You can make millions of dollars, and live in luxury.  Once your career is over, no one will give a shit about how fun your fights were or how much money you made.  We remember champions.  We don't give a damn about Jon Fitch, Thiago Alves*, Sean Sherk, or any other guy who was pretty dominant but never won the belt.  So in the moment, sure these guys like getting paid, like being in great fights, but in the end the goal is to be the champion.   

*I re-upped with Fightpass UFC 200 weekend, and decided to rewatch UFC 100.  I had totally forgot how devastating Alves was leading up to that GSP fight.  He stopped his previous 5 opponents including a flying knee that almost decapitated Matt Hughes.  He had a pretty incredible run, and I completely forgot about it.  If he was the champion, we'd be talking about him like he was a legend.  

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1 minute ago, supremebve said:

 We don't give a damn about Sean Sherk, 

Ummmm.....

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31 minutes ago, Setsuna said:

I don't think it's so much the talent gaps but that some people move the ppv buys than others and get bigger purses because of it. Rousey did pretty good as a pay per view draw, didn't she? During her run there was a bigger perceived skill gap than in the flyweight division or during Silva's run.

I have to disagree with the idea of 'anybody can be punched in the head for a living' - sure, but there's something to be said about working your way up to the point where you can get a massive payday for it. Even before the Diaz series, anybody would have lined up for a fight with McGregor because you know you were gonna get PAID for it. There are realistically very few fighters who get that attention so it's not like these types of dream matches will ever be more than rare. I bet if Diaz could go back and have fought for the LW title with the same results (win the title, lose the rematch) he probably would have still preferred to stick with this reality even if it means never winning the title. He's probably made 2-3 times as much money and has another huge pay day in his future.

Titles are great and all but if you have the opportunity to basically set yourself for life from one or two fights, you've gotta jump on that opportunity.

 

Not to mention, the perception of what a fighter is now versus what a MMA fighter was prior to 05/06/07 has changed immensely. If you were a UFC fighter or a somewhat notable MMA fighter ten years ago, it was like this weird cult celebrity status but within a hardcore fanbase. I think that's what basically started that Affliction shirt wearing "I train UFC bro" stereotype and the "I go on the Sherdog/UG forums" thing. Based on those fighters having that status, people always want to be the original fan of everything in MMA.

Ten years or so later, since it broke more mainstream, fighters don't enjoy that type of celebrity outside certain fighters on Twitter and the fighters and personalities who enjoyed that status before that. You have more larger than life personalities than Chuck Liddell and Tito Ortiz. If those guys came along now, they would probably be stars depending on how well they did but no way would a dude like Liddell be this heroic figure. I don't think Tito would be half as popular either. Every fighter now is virtually categorized into specific tiers and divisions. The fighters who can claim UFC veterans now can be your weekend warriors and people can look at them as just that. It is this unconscious thing that boxing has enjoyed for awhile where fans can say this fighter is a club fighter or cab driver etc. People can separate between Floyd Mayweather Jr. and the unathletic tin knocker fighting at the local high school with a record of 15 wins and 21 losses. However, there is still a ton of space between that. You can be a UFC level fighter and still not be close to a title shot, especially in a deep division. While it is noble to want to fight for the highest prize in prize fighting, money is still a prize itself. For a fighter like Nate Diaz to make millions without even fighting for a title is a boon for the fighters.

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3 minutes ago, Setsuna said:

Ummmm.....

Unless you are Sean Sherk, I don't understand your point.  If you are Sean Sherk, I don't mean any disrespect.  He(you) were 36-4, and only lost to Matt Hughes, GSP, BJ Penn, and Frankie Edgar all at the peak of their powers.  When we talk about the best welterweight/lightweight fighters ever, we'll hear about Hughes, GSP, Robbie Lawler, BJ Penn, Frankie Edgar, and Rafael Dos Anjos, GSP is the only one of those guys who has fewer than 4 loses.  Winning a championship means more than money in the eyes of the fans.  

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But really, they don't need to be mutually exclusive. Diaz IS closer to a title shot now by going 1-1 in high profile fights. Just having his name explode as it has guarantees he'll need to win less fights between title shots.

And these big fights are rare. We're talking two guys right now who everyone wants to fight aren't we?

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2 minutes ago, supremebve said:

Unless you are Sean Sherk, I don't understand your point.  If you are Sean Sherk, I don't mean any disrespect.  He(you) were 36-4, and only lost to Matt Hughes, GSP, BJ Penn, and Frankie Edgar all at the peak of their powers.  When we talk about the best welterweight/lightweight fighters ever, we'll hear about Hughes, GSP, Robbie Lawler, BJ Penn, Frankie Edgar, and Rafael Dos Anjos, GSP is the only one of those guys who has fewer than 4 loses.  Winning a championship means more than money in the eyes of the fans.  

I think @Setsuna's point is that Sean Sherk WAS a champion, UFC Lightweight Champion from 10/14/06-5/24/08...

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3 minutes ago, supremebve said:

Unless you are Sean Sherk, I don't understand your point.  If you are Sean Sherk, I don't mean any disrespect.  He(you) were 36-4, and only lost to Matt Hughes, GSP, BJ Penn, and Frankie Edgar all at the peak of their powers.  When we talk about the best welterweight/lightweight fighters ever, we'll hear about Hughes, GSP, Robbie Lawler, BJ Penn, Frankie Edgar, and Rafael Dos Anjos, GSP is the only one of those guys who has fewer than 4 loses.  Winning a championship means more than money in the eyes of the fans.  

He was lightweight champion.

You're right, the alpha-champions will always be remembered, As it stands now, will Dos Anjos be better remembered in 15 years than Diaz, I'm not sure. Titles change hands quickly, unless you go on a major run you're likely to get lost in the historical legacy shuffle.

 

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1 minute ago, Setsuna said:

But really, they don't need to be mutually exclusive. Diaz IS closer to a title shot now by going 1-1 in high profile fights. 

Not really. He is still behind Cerrone (who might go back down), Khabib, Dos Anjos, Ferguson, and Barboza. God knows someone else is going to make a run like a Michael Chiesa or Beneil Dariush. He would have to wait for at least 18 months for that to shake out plus get multiple wins. Why do that when you can wait until the third McGregor fight rolls around and guarantee yourself way more money than you would fighting for a title? I want to see Nate fight more than once or twice year if healthy, but I don't think anyone can force him to if a trio of fights can set him up for life. 

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Yeah I can't really dispute that. I didn't mean immediate title shot or anything but even one less significant win on your way to the title can be a life-saver.

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15 minutes ago, Setsuna said:

He was lightweight champion.

You're right, the alpha-champions will always be remembered, As it stands now, will Dos Anjos be better remembered in 15 years than Diaz, I'm not sure. Titles change hands quickly, unless you go on a major run you're likely to get lost in the historical legacy shuffle.

 

I completely forgot that Sean Sherk was champion.  The fact that he won the title on the same card that Anderson Silva destroyed Rich Franklin makes it even more inexcusable than it would be otherwise.  That is probably a top 5 MMA memory for me.  So, maybe my point is built on a faulty foundation.

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