CWC EPISODE THREE- 1st Round (7/27/16)

[SirSmUgly]

Yeah, we'll agree to disagree. Again, half the guys in the tourney have mediocre-at-best builds. Zayn/Nak is my favorite match of the year, and those two guys have very mediocre builds. I just don't think it matters. I think work elevates everything else. 

[MapRef41N93W]

13 minutes ago, EVA said:

I love the character Kendrick is playing in this.  The promos set him up as a classic babyface archetype, and then he comes out and cheats his balls off and does virtually nothing flashy to get cheered, letting Mendoza get all the shine.

Agree, this was great. At the end of match I thought "this doesn't sit well with me, it felt like Mendoza was the better wrestler." Then a split second elapsed and I realized, duh, that's the whole point! It helped a lot that the finishing choke looked so brutal.

I also appreciated that a bit of the Gulak match revolved around how you shouldn't cross your feet when you have someone's back because it makes you vulnerable to an ankle lock. That's a habit that gets drilled out of you very early in BJJ, but pro wrestlers, in those big boots, do it all the time. I realize that grappling in pro wrestling will never be realistic, but this something they could quit doing without losing anything except the ability to work a rear body scissors as a rest hold (switch to a body triangle, it's more realistic AND it looks cooler, problem solved).

[MapRef41N93W]

Disclaimer: this is my first time seeing Sabre, so I don't know how representative this match was.

That said, I don't think his build needs to a liability. We know six-foot skinny dudes can be dangerous grapplers--just look at the Diaz brothers. The problem is that his work is so cute. He needs to compensate for his build, and his general gawkiness, by bringing a sense of real danger to what he does. Less "look at these neat tricks I can do", and more legitimate, painful-looking stuff.

I did like the finish of the match, with him bending the fingers back to stop the rope break. More of that kind of thing would be great.

[The Man Known as Dan]

15 minutes ago, Smelly McUgly said:

Yeah, we'll agree to disagree. Again, half the guys in the tourney have mediocre-at-best builds. Zayn/Nak is my favorite match of the year, and those two guys have very mediocre builds. I just don't think it matters. I think work elevates everything else. 

Zayn and Nakamura both have significantly better builds then Sabre has. I think now a days, body types have opened up as acceptable, but more to the "You don't have to have a 6 pack anymore, you can have a little more weight packed on then that" mindset, which both Zayn and Nak fit. Name any guys in the WWE that have been getting pushed that you would describe as "lanky"

And I agree that work elevates things. But, as said above, his work tonight was just so soft and unserious to me. He's a tall lanky guy who has some flashy submissions, but no anger in his moves. I was actually kinda bummed because I thought he made Dux look pretty mediocre today, because Dux never felt like a threat because Sabre never seemed to treat him like one.

It certainly doesn't help my perspective that a guy who is right in my wheel house of technical wrestling followed him, though.

[Charlie M.]

I wish they would have let Tyson Dux go further in this thing. The tournament needs bruisers like him in it.

The less said about Zack's performance, the better. I like a bunch of his matches so hopefully he tweaked some things between the first and second taping.

Kendrick's character is wonderful.

[JRGoldman]

I think ZSJ's build is totally fine as long as his offense is built around joint manipulation and reversals. Look at his matches with Hero. He looks like he can hang because when he gets a hold of an arm or a leg, he can go from hold to hold super fast and make everything look painful. Things fall apart when he tries to hit uppercuts, which look they would do nothing to the average fan, let alone another rassler. 

Kendrick was great, and this tournament will be awesome as long as he is bullying people and cheating and generally wrestling as though he might not be able to eat if he loses. I don't have the bracket in front of me and this probably won't happen, but I would love for Kendrick to heel his way until he meets up with Gulak, who is just a better, younger, bigger asshole.

[Rev Ray]

Youtube post match interviews:

 

 

OK, Main event really turned around the show.

 

- I thought Sabre/Dux was OK.  Sabre did some neat stuff, but the crowd though chanting for ZSJ at the opening seemed really quiet for the most of it.  DBry and Mauro were marking out.  

- Gulak/H Shira was another OK match.  The theme of the night seemed to be guys doing holds, Bryan saying "fans don't really understand how this works" perhaps to cover the quiet crowd, which is OK.  Mat style hasn't really been prominent in the US for a long time, but it's a chance for the announcers to really explain it and hopefully, fans will start buying in.

- Nese/Bennett was kind of a dud.  It was really the Nese show where sometimes the guy going over gets to put over some of the guy losing stuff, this seemed almost all Nese

 

- Kendrick/Mendoza was my match of the night.  First off, "Man with A Plan" returns as Kendrick's theme (forgot if he used it on his NXT matches).  He was also sporting a Blackbeard Pirate Flag.  If he's doing a pirate gimmick, I hope he has smoking cannon fuses in his beard in a later round.  I was really impressed with Mendoza and I hope to see more of him.  I was sort of confused when Kendrick busted out the choke finish, it seemed like Bryan was putting that over as something Michaels used or taught them which I don't recall ever seeing though I think someone name dropped Suzuki.  

[Dog]

25 minutes ago, MapRef41N93W said:

Disclaimer: this is my first time seeing Sabre, so I don't know how representative this match was.

That said, I don't think his build needs to a liability. We know six-foot skinny dudes can be dangerous grapplers--just look at the Diaz brothers. The problem is that his work is so cute. He needs to compensate for his build, and his general gawkiness, by bringing a sense of real danger to what he does. Less "look at these neat tricks I can do", and more legitimate, painful-looking stuff.

I did like the finish of the match, with him bending the fingers back to stop the rope break. More of that kind of thing would be great.

Sabre toned down the "hurty" stuff here; I have to think he's saving it for later rounds. Most of his matches are half neat chain wrestling and half disgusting joint manipulations that make the viewer scream in sympathy pains. I'm pretty sure he turned Jigsaw's ankles to powder in their recent EVOLVE match.

[MapRef41N93W]

Ah, good to hear. I hope he brings some of that stuff out in later matches.

[EVA]

I think ZSJ's current build is a non-factor when it comes to a possible WWE career.  If they sign him, they'll stash him at the performance center for a while and help him refine his body into something they find acceptable.  Zayn's body looks much different now than when he was Generico.

And hopefully Brookside and Regal will teach him to tighten his shit up, while they're at it.

[JCM]

1 hour ago, Infinit said:

By comparison, what about Kendrick's physique? How does he rate by The WWE Standard?

Kendrick's stuff has snap and impact. Plus his head doesn't make up a third of his body weight. Everything Kendrick did in his match looked like it hurt his opponent. I dug some of ZSJ's submissions(especially the finish) but his noodle arm uppercuts were a joke, and his selling was comically bad in a few spots.  FTR I thought Kendrick was easily the best guy on the show between his character work and execution. He didn't do anything fancy, but that fit the veteran past his athletic prime character they're going for. Really great performance.

[Cristobal]

Can I say that Ioved the choice Bryan made for his commentary during the Kendrick match? The core of Bryan's appeal is his authenticity. And rather than pretending to complain about Kendrick's cheating, he just spent the match nakedly rooting for his friend to win. It felt like his fan side coming front and center.

[Eivion]

Dux/ZSJ was  a decent match match. Dux was the more impressive guy though I like what ZSJ seemed to be going for. Gulak/Shira was fine. Neese/Bennett seemed to mostly be a showcase for Neese. Neese had some cool stuff but a so-so personality at best. Loved Kendrick/Mendoza. It definitely made the show. Mendoza was awesome flying around while presenting that showmanship personality, and Kendrick was great as a sneaky, surly vet. You have to love the story they had going in with this being Kendrick's final shot only to have him be such a cheap bastard. The crowd went from cheering him before the match even started to them absolutely loving Mendoza and booing Kendrick for his tactics. This is up there as one of my favorite matches in the tournament so far.

[Kyuubi]

I fucking hate Zack Sabre Jr's style. Fuck. It did not make Dux look good at all. It was a squash and it made him look ridiculous. I feel bad for the guy.  This match embodies everything I can't stand about ZSJ. From the transitions, the absurd submissions, and stupid habit to look at the audience while in holds. He doesn't make every hold count and just transfers holds at the expense of logic and story. It annoys me so much and it takes me out of it. 

Gulak is the opposite. There is nothing exciting about him nor is he pretty which is something that I appreciate from a Cruiserweight.  Harv Shiva really did nothing to impress me. Probably works better as a tag team with his brother.

Neese was cool. Dude looks shredded and has a lot of power moves, but then again, Bennet is under a buck 50. I hope Bennet is okay. Dude did not show much to impress.

Kendrick's final shot story intrigues me because he does not wrestle like someone with that storyline would. He is hungry, but he shows his desperation. He is a crafty veteran, but he is also guile and will take short cuts and that is the most interesting kind of heel. It confused the crowd for a bit too and they eventually turned him and that is the best part of story telling. Mendoza was very impressive and showed that fiery babyface style that the night needed after the past three matches.

Daniel Bryan's inclusion on the commentary team made this card. His genuine interest and fascination with every wrestler just carries over because if DB gives a shit, his enthusiasm makes you give a shit. He was the best part of ZSJ's bullshit and his rooting for fellow classmate Kendrick reminded the audience of Kendrick's very genuine and sympathetic reason for competing. He is nuanced in his character to know that yes, he is still a babyface, so Bryan even goes on after the match and say, "I don't approve of every tactic Kendrick used...but.." Who would have thought having commentators excited for what you are watching does so much makes the card better?

 

[Go2Sleep]

Looks like ZSJ is gonna be the most divisive guy on the roster. I like him, though. There's a few tweaks he could make, but I like the general idea of his style. He has the makings of a babyface who can switch between sympathetic and badass in a heartbeat. He would benefit from having lots of different finishers and mixing in more ragdoll bumping, so he could be like a Colin Delaney that could tap you out at any second. Also he should tell his opponents to struggle in his holds, so his transitions make more sense. They look cool and all, but why switch holds if the guy isn't getting out of the one you have him in? I feel like Gulak should bring out the best in him next week.

Nese looked like he was over the 205 limit, or maybe there's just some really small dudes in this tournament and my size perception is getting skewed.

The main event was easily the best match of the tourney so far, and possibly a low-end MOTYC. Mendoza won the crowd over by hitting all his stuff fast and clean. Kendrick pitched in some solid heel work, especially that rope kick that cut up Mendoza's mouth. This was the first match where it felt like the favorite was really caught off guard and struggling against an unknown, instead of just letting the other guy hit some offense because he has to.

[Lamp, broken circa 1988]

a quick note: why is everyone's theme song the worst

I've never enjoyed ZSJ, through his work in PWG or NOAH, and that didn't change here. He's what I saw there. Very clever, too cooperative for me to suspend disbelief.

I wish Gulak was meaner but there's time. The Bollywood Boys have really compelling stories so it's a shame they won't do that well here. Maybe next year's classic is a tag tournament?

anyone criticizing Sabre's build while not rolling their eyes at Nese being kitten soft makes it seem like they're mad at something else. Also Tony's got like an insane amount of butt meat. I was awestruck.

Beautiful main event. Nigh star making. Also violent as hell. Carnyism Vs. Indie Spots is a storyline I'm 100% in on.

[Cyanide]

Not white-knighting for ZSJ, but couldn't shake this throughout the thread:

[MORELOCK]

Oh, did ZSJ fight? I thought he was dancing.

[Dirty J.]

MMA has changed my perception of smaller guys being tough as nails, but ZSJ just looks like a lanky dork. Dude needs to hit the weights. I appreciate the WoS tribute act he is trying to do. Bare in mind, this is the first time I've seen him wrestle, but he did not live up to the internet hype.

[RIPPA]

In regards to crowd reaction 

All the matches except Kendrick's were taped in the third hour of a show that started something like 90 minutes late

Not saying that was the cause just a possible explanation 

[w. josh]

Sabre's post-match interview seems to make it clear he was purposely working a first-round match style with a plan to do more as he progressed. I prefer that to some of the balls-to-wall stuff we've seen so far from guys like Lince Dorado. I think it tells a good story, too - a guy like Dorado or Raul Mendoza isn't coming in with much fanfare, so there's a little more desperation and a need to throw it all out there from day one; whereas Sabre is one of the 2-3 favorites to win so he's more likely to feel like he can coast for a bit.

I also liked most of ZSJ's strikes - the back elbow in the corner looked particularly hurty - which I thought balanced out some of the cutesy stuff. I've never been a fan of the guy's look, and some of his bug-eyed selling gets on my nerves (his sell of the fisherman's buster here was obnoxious), but I think there's enough "there" there that a few months in NXT could prepare him for a successful run on the main roster. 

[turk128]

I hope Dux gets more chances, he's solid and clearly well seasoned.

Dig both Gulak and ZSJ for simply being different, refreshingly so.

Tony Nese surprised the heck outta me, agile mofo for his build; Apollo Creed-ish except he doesn't make everything look easy... which actually makes it look better somehow.

Kendrick is a master storyteller and dragged Mendoza into the depths. (Mendoza deserves a contract, he looked fantastic in the loss.) Kendrick clearly modified the plan when Mendoza got bloodied. If Kendrick stays around, I hope he recruits others to be part of his motley crew.

[w. josh]

Kendrick as the Raven of NXT is a fantastic idea.

[Sky Blue Sam]

I'm possibly a touch biased because ZSJ got his first break in my hometown promotion (which hosted, I believe, the only ZSJ/Danielson match in a small WMC in Coventry in 2008), but I really dug his match. Thought it all made sense: Sabre Jr comes in a one of the odds-on favourites in the tournament, so he's a little cocky in the opening stages. Knows he can out-wrestle Dux, so rather than fighting out of holds, he uses his superior skills to reverse everything Dux tries, giving him an increased sense of superiority. It's only when he makes the mistake of arrogantly slapping Dux, and paying for it with the fisherman's buster (and admittedly I hated his selling here), that he realises he needs to take this guy more seriously. Hence suddenly busting out a load of uppercuts, the penalty kick then, with Dux weakened, he wrenches the fuck out of his arms, bending the wrist in unnatural ways, and gets the win. Totally told the story of ZSJ's cockiness nearly backfiring on him, but him still being superior enough to win.

[(BP)]

The thing with guys like Sabre (and a lot of guys in the CWC) is if they're signed they'll go through the performance center and NXT, where they'll come out cut from marble with 1% body fat (by hook or crook) and be rid of a lot of goofy selling and mannerisms through coaching.