RAW is UNIVERSALLY AWESOME

[OSJ]

15 minutes ago, odessasteps said:

Is that like a 5 tool player?

I suspect so. (I wish he'd given us what the four quadrants were, but let me take a stab at it...)

In ring performance: Finn has demonstrated over and over that he can have fantastic matches with a wide variety of opponents.

Versatility: Hard to think of anyone since Barry Windham that's so good as both heel and face. 

Mic Work: In glorious old-school fashion, Finn is one of the best today in talking you into buying a ticket for the next show. He gets the purpose of a promo as well as anyone in the business and makes every upcoming event seem like a big deal even if it isn't.

Charisma: When we talk about the "It factor" he's pretty near the top. Most US fans have only seen the eminently likable, sort of nerdy Irish guy that builds Lego stuff. They haven't seen the hate-able cocky prick that we NJPW fans loved to hate. 

Really, I see very little downside to the guy at all, he's already laid the "too small" bugaboo to rest. The people that fear that he and Rollins will bring out the worst in each other need to re-watch his classics with Samoa Joe. If the match does wind up anything less than spectacular, it's not going to be Finn's fault. Personally, I lean the other direction and have a pretty good feeling that they're going to bring out the best in each other. Might just be a MOTYC in a year that's had some great ones already.

[Niners Fan in CT]

That's a good write up @OSJ but I just meant that Finn is going to play to the under 25 male and female demos as well as the over 25 male and female demos.  Basically because he has the looks and everything else that you look to as what is a typical WWE superstar but in addition he has the outsider credibility from his work in New Japan.

Sami plays to most crowds and is very easy to root for but I don't know if he's got the superstar looks and physique to be a top guy like Finn would.  The crossover potential.

Like I said, I like Sami more but I'm not a casual fan. I'm insane about wrestling.  Finn looks like a movie star.

[The Man Known as Dan]

20 minutes ago, OSJ said:

I suspect so. (I wish he'd given us what the four quadrants were, but let me take a stab at it...)

In ring performance: Finn has demonstrated over and over that he can have fantastic matches with a wide variety of opponents.

Versatility: Hard to think of anyone since Barry Windham that's so good as both heel and face. 

Mic Work: In glorious old-school fashion, Finn is one of the best today in talking you into buying a ticket for the next show. He gets the purpose of a promo as well as anyone in the business and makes every upcoming event seem like a big deal even if it isn't.

Charisma: When we talk about the "It factor" he's pretty near the top. Most US fans have only seen the eminently likable, sort of nerdy Irish guy that builds Lego stuff. They haven't seen the hate-able cocky prick that we NJPW fans loved to hate. 

Really, I see very little downside to the guy at all, he's already laid the "too small" bugaboo to rest. The people that fear that he and Rollins will bring out the worst in each other need to re-watch his classics with Samoa Joe. If the match does wind up anything less than spectacular, it's not going to be Finn's fault. Personally, I lean the other direction and have a pretty good feeling that they're going to bring out the best in each other. Might just be a MOTYC in a year that's had some great ones already.

 

Counter argument

In Ring Performance: I would argue he has very much NOT demonstrated the ability to have fantaastic matches with a wide variety of opponents. I'd go so far as to say his main event run in NXT was composed of "matches that should have been better then they were". He had 1 great match with Samoa Joe in 3 attempts, and that was a mach were people thought Joe went into world beater mode. His Owens feud was certainly not "bad" but I don't think you could even put in close the Zayn/Owens NXT series (which, yeah, more personal grudge, but Neville/Owens was a better match then any of Finn's stuff with KO). Heck, has there been a single NXT Special that FInn had the best match on? I thought him vs. Joe at the last Takeover had a legitimate claim for worst match on that show. 

 

Versatility: Huh? I think Finn was an outright shitty face most of his run. Just really not a good seller, at all. He wouldn't be in my top 100 in "versatility" since Windham, and I actually would give a list if you ask. Just for a couple names: Eddie Guerrero, Tajiri, The Rock, Bryan Danielson, and on this front, even Kurt Angle. 

 

Mic Work: Nope from me. Sorry, but Finn certainly hasn't "talked me into buying a ticket". I actually think he's a pretty mediocre talker.

 

Charisma: When Finn doesn't have the paint on, he is pretty much just a guy to me. And I have seen some of the New Japan stuff and thought that was pretty shitty too.

[OSJ]

1 minute ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

That's a good write up @OSJ but I just meant that Finn is going to play to the under 25 male and female demos as well as the over 25 male and female demos.  Basically because he has the looks and everything else that you look to as what is a typical WWE superstar but in addition he has the outsider credibility from his work in New Japan.

Sami plays to most crowds and is very easy to root for but I don't know if he's got the superstar looks and physique to be a top guy like Finn would. 

Like I said, I like Sami more but I'm not a casual fan. I'm insane about wrestling.  Finn looks like a movie star.

Gotcha. And I absolutely agree. He's got the looks that will play to the ladies, but he's also a guy that the male demographic will respect. Of course, I said exactly the same thing about Roman, but the VKM lets-force-this-guy-down-their-throats campaign was too much for him to overcome. I think Finn's rise to the top is going to be fast and it's going to be organic. Maybe not quite Daniel Bryan levels, but close. 

[Sammo~!]

Prince Devitt in 2008-2009 was one of the wrestlers that got me watching New Japan along with Tanahashi and Nakamura. Finn has definitely got the "it" factor that Sami just doesn't have. Finn oozes cool guy charisma. Not to say that Sami isn't charismatic, but Sami has dorky little brother charisma. You're rooting for Sami and you want him to win but you don't want to BE Sami.

[OSJ]

3 minutes ago, El Dragon said:

 

Counter argument

In Ring Performance: I would argue he has very much NOT demonstrated the ability to have fantaastic matches with a wide variety of opponents. I'd go so far as to say his main event run in NXT was composed of "matches that should have been better then they were". He had 1 great match with Samoa Joe in 3 attempts, and that was a mach were people thought Joe went into world beater mode. His Owens feud was certainly not "bad" but I don't think you could even put in close the Zayn/Owens NXT series (which, yeah, more personal grudge, but Neville/Owens was a better match then any of Finn's stuff with KO). Heck, has there been a single NXT Special that FInn had the best match on? I thought him vs. Joe at the last Takeover had a legitimate claim for worst match on that show. 

 

Versatility: Huh? I think Finn was an outright shitty face most of his run. Just really not a good seller, at all. He wouldn't be in my top 100 in "versatility", and I actually would give a list if you ask. Just for a couple names: Eddie Guerrero, Tajiri, The Rock, Bryan Danielson, and on this front, even Kurt Angle. 

 

Mic Work: Nope from me. Sorry, but Finn certainly hasn't "talked me into buying a ticket". I actually think he's a pretty mediocre talker.

 

Charisma: When Finn doesn't have the paint on, he is pretty much just a guy to me. And I have seen some of the New Japan stuff and thought that was pretty shitty too.

Wowser. We're usually not that far apart in our opinions on the rasslin. It's certainly hard to top the Owens/Zayn feud which had the advantage of two guys that have worked well together for years and spot-on build up from the writers. I'm not going to damn Finn for be upstaged by MOTYC on the NXT specials. "Should have been better than they were" is always a strange road to go down, absent clear botches or over-booking how does one map out what "should" have happened as opposed to what did?

Okay, you will have to go a long ways to find a bigger fan of Eddie Guerrero than myself, and I have to admit his face work was always unconvincing Eddie had a naturally heelish persona that was very hard to mask. For that matter, Danielson as a heel was never my cup of tea either. 

Mic Work: Again, we'll have to agree to disagree, he doesn't scream or shout or spout ridiculous catchphrases. His mic work is far more in the spirit of Arn Anderson, low-key but compelling.

Charisma: All I can say is keep watching...

[The Man Known as Dan]

On in ring: I've been in the middle of rewatching all of the NXT Takeovers and most of the "big" matches from regular NXT. It's not a matter of being overshadowed, it's been a matter of "his matches just haven't felt particularly good." Now, there is some bad opponents in there (first big match against the Ascension), but his stuff with Breeze was not among Breeze's best work, his stuff with Owens was not among Owens best work, and outside of the "Holy Shit Joe's bleeding and beating the shit out of Finn" match, his work with Joe has not been anything to write home about. Finn's big problem as a face is that he's face who, to me, is a shitty seller. He's outright boring after getting his ass kicked. It's been a big problem for me in a lot of his stuff. As someone who really wanted to like Finn, I just find his comeback and "super intense facial reactions" making comebacks to be really fake looking.

Okay. Okay. The idea of Finn Balor, who in his WWE run has one legitimately, no question, great match under his belt as a better face worker then Eddie Guerrero, let alone a better heel worker then Bryan Danielson, is just something I can't comment on. Like, if that's how you feel, cool beans, but Finn isn't even in the stratosphere of either in those roles to me. 

Mic Work: Arn Anderson wasn't a "low-key" promo man, he was usually a fucking intense promo with his best work. And if you can show me one Finn Balor promo anywhere in the same book as an Arn promo. I thought Joe was consistently out talking him during their feud. 

Charisma: I've watched over 100 matches. I don't want to watch any more.

[Wyld Samurai]

Finn's ring work bores me. His entrance is absolutely killer... so he has The Ultimate Warrior thing going on that gets the kids and ladies all in a frenzy. 

I never thought much about his mic work... he speaks English, so that's a plus.

I do thinkle he's absolutely deserving of where he's being placed at on RAW. He is a license to print money and got the biggest pop Monday night when everyone was on stage. Thst again flues into the notion that people have here that the audience at RAW is not the same audience that watches NXT.

The dude is over, has credibility, and is ready for the main stage. He's not Danielson or Eddy. I would never associate him with those two... but those two are legends.

[Brian Fowler]

Finn has a bunch of good matches in NXT, but only one I personally thought was great (the blood stoppage Joe match)

His charisma died nothing for me.

(And Eddy Guerrero is not only the best wrestler I ever saw, but the best babyface as well)

[Zakk_Sabbath]

4 hours ago, OSJ said:

Finn as the chosen one will keep me watching, that's for damn sure.

Oh for sure. I should have clarified. I meant Finn as the chosen one in another rehashing of the same authority bullshit we've been seeing for years on years now. I should have made that clear. I'm a firm Finn supporter, but it's gross in that context is all I meant.

[turk128]

Finn could easily make the same ole authority BS look refreshing by simply reforming the Bullet Club. Then Rollins can easily transition into face if they want.

Heck, they can keep it on the down-low by having Stephanie be supporting them secretly while Foley play the patsy.

[Dolfan in NYC]

Or actually make it interesting and have Foley be the one secretly supporting them and have them do a hostile takeover. 

She's Cersei Lannister... Let her get her's like Cersei eventually will. 

[odessasteps]

Stephanie mcmahon walk of shame = ratings

[Curt McGirt]

Watching the SHRIM squash again on NBC Universo was so good because the announcers keep yelling "OUCH!!!" Also at one point SHRIM has his prey in the corner and opens up his mouth like he's gonna take a bite out of him.

[turk128]

6 hours ago, odessasteps said:

Stephanie mcmahon walk of shame = ratings

And only on the WWE Network, for $9.99!

[Charro!]

Anyone else notice the similarity between the enhancement talent guy who faced Braun and soccer manager Alex McCleish?

 

[SirSmUgly]

I thought the jobber who wrestled Strowman resembled a somehow-even-more-chinless Paul Dano myself. 

[Lazlo Woodbine]

7 hours ago, Charro! said:

Anyone else notice the similarity between the enhancement talent guy who faced Braun and soccer manager Alex McCleish?

 

If McLeish were somehow merged with "elephant man" Davie Dodds, I'm pretty sure the result would be that job guy.

 

[turk128]

Foley did a great write-up about his backstage experience of Sasha's win.

[Eivion]

That was an amazing read.