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Randy

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1 hour ago, EdA said:

Wow!  No mention of Scotty Moore dying yet?

Perhaps as important of a rock guitarist as anyone this side of Chuck Berry.  And really, if you can't dig his playing on the Elvis Sun singles, you don't like the rock or roll.

 

One day I'm going to need a definitive list of people who are credited for being the inventor of Rock and Roll.  Off The top of my head I've heard Chuck Berry, Ike Turner, and now Scotty Moore(There are more, I just don't remember all of them).  There probably isn't a real answer, but knowing what each person contributed would be an interesting read.  There probably also needs to be a definitive answer to what exactly Rock and Roll is, because I went to the hall of fame and it seems to be all American music.  

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Didn't say say Scotty Moore was any sort of inventor of rock & roll.  Given that rock & roll is a bastard child of blues, country/rockabilly, folk, jazz, R&B, what have you, there is no INVENTOR, per se.

But Scotty's work on the Elvis Sun singles is as important for what would follow over the next 60 years as Chuck Berry, Ike Turner, Carl Perkins, etc.

 

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1 hour ago, EdA said:

Didn't say say Scotty Moore was any sort of inventor of rock & roll.  Given that rock & roll is a bastard child of blues, country/rockabilly, folk, jazz, R&B, what have you, there is no INVENTOR, per se.

But Scotty's work on the Elvis Sun singles is as important for what would follow over the next 60 years as Chuck Berry, Ike Turner, Carl Perkins, etc.

 

The article says he "practically invented the modern rock ‘n’ roll guitar sound."  I'm 100% on board with the fact that there is no inventor.  The part that interests me is trying to figure out who brought certain things to the table that became rock staples.  Ike Turner is credited for playing the first rock guitar solo, which is vital to the art form.  I would love to know who brought all of those little elements to the table that pushed the genre from a deviation of a bunch of previous sounds to a whole new sound of its own.   

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14 minutes ago, supremebve said:

The article says he "practically invented the modern rock ‘n’ roll guitar sound."  I'm 100% on board with the fact that there is no inventor.  The part that interests me is trying to figure out who brought certain things to the table that became rock staples.  Ike Turner is credited for playing the first rock guitar solo, which is vital to the art form.  I would love to know who brought all of those little elements to the table that pushed the genre from a deviation of a bunch of previous sounds to a whole new sound of its own.   

Well, obits are generally over the top.  It's best to take them with a grain of salt.  But...fair enough.  Scotty certainly did not invent rock.  But playing on those early Elvis sides certainly got him heard more than Berry, Turner, Perkins, Link Wray, Les Paul, etc. so one could make the statement that he is/was the best known rock guitarist (ergo, inventor of sorts...still a stretch, but whatever) until the British players took over and took rock in their different directions.

And trying to put a fine point of who took the rock sound from what we know as the earliest-labeled "rock & roll" to the point of say, the Beatles and Stones would be Herculean like trying to put a fine point on how hip hop went from the Sugar Hill Gang to Biggie or what have you.  

 

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18 minutes ago, EdA said:

Well, obits are generally over the top.  It's best to take them with a grain of salt.  But...fair enough.  Scotty certainly did not invent rock.  But playing on those early Elvis sides certainly got him heard more than Berry, Turner, Perkins, Link Wray, Les Paul, etc. so one could make the statement that he is/was the best known rock guitarist (ergo, inventor of sorts...still a stretch, but whatever) until the British players took over and took rock in their different directions.

And trying to put a fine point of who took the rock sound from what we know as the earliest-labeled "rock & roll" to the point of say, the Beatles and Stones would be Herculean like trying to put a fine point on how hip hop went from the Sugar Hill Gang to Biggie or what have you.  

Yeah, it would be like trying to figure out who invented the wheel, but would still be a fun journey even if the destination is ultimately nowhere.

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HOLY FUCK~! The Prophets of Rage Tour!  RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE~! PUBLIC ENEMY~! CYPRESS HILL~!

I will see your punk asses at the EagleBank Arena in Fairfax, Virginia on August the mother fucking 19th!

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22 hours ago, KidNatural said:

Most music historians point to Jackie Brentsen's Rocket 88 as the first rock and roll record and that was produced by Ike Turner. It's a good start.

I'd heard about that but not heard the song until now. How did they get the distortion on the guitar? Of course the jokers in the comments section said Ike beat the amp

EDIT: From Wikipedia 

Quote

The legend of how the sound came about says that Kizart's amplifier was damaged on Highway 61 when the band was driving fromMississippi to Memphis, Tennessee. An attempt was made to hold the cone in place by stuffing the amplifier with wadded newspapers, which unintentionally created a distorted sound; Phillips liked the sound and used it. Robert Palmer has written that the amplifier "had fallen from the top of the car", and attributes this information to Sam Phillips.[8][9] However, in a recorded interview at the Experience Music Project in Seattle, Washington, Ike Turner stated that the amplifier was in the trunk of the car and that rain may have caused the damage; he is certain that it did not fall from the roof of the car. Peter Guralnick, in his biography of Sam Phillips has the amplifier being dropped from the car's trunk when the band got a flat tire and was digging out the spare.[10] Link Wray explains the development of his fuzz tone with a similar story.

 

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30 minutes ago, Curt McGirt said:

 

22 hours ago, KidNatural said:

Most music historians point to Jackie Brentsen's Rocket 88 as the first rock and roll record and that was produced by Ike Turner. It's a good start.

I'd heard about that but not heard the song until now. How did they get the distortion on the guitar? Of course the jokers in the comments section said Ike beat the amp

EDIT: From Wikipedia 

Quote

The legend of how the sound came about says that Kizart's amplifier was damaged on Highway 61 when the band was driving fromMississippi to Memphis, Tennessee. An attempt was made to hold the cone in place by stuffing the amplifier with wadded newspapers, which unintentionally created a distorted sound; Phillips liked the sound and used it. Robert Palmer has written that the amplifier "had fallen from the top of the car", and attributes this information to Sam Phillips.[8][9] However, in a recorded interview at the Experience Music Project in Seattle, Washington, Ike Turner stated that the amplifier was in the trunk of the car and that rain may have caused the damage; he is certain that it did not fall from the roof of the car. Peter Guralnick, in his biography of Sam Phillips has the amplifier being dropped from the car's trunk when the band got a flat tire and was digging out the spare.[10] Link Wray explains the development of his fuzz tone with a similar story.

How much of the history of music, especially black music, is "we just used what we had and did what we could?" Their amp was fucked up, they couldn't afford another one, and they just made it a part of the sound.  That is the kind of thing that I find fascinating.  They basically created a whole new art form, because they were too damn poor to buy another amp.

 

 

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Yeah.  Just read that Sam Phillips bio a few months ago with the falling out of the trunk story.

There are equally apocryphal stories on how the Kinks wrecked their amps to get the distortion for "You Really Got Me" and "All Day and All of the Night."

Problem is - musicians are like workers in that they've bullshitted for so long even they don't know the truth now.

 

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7 hours ago, EdA said:

Yeah.  Just read that Sam Phillips bio a few months ago with the falling out of the trunk story.

There are equally apocryphal stories on how the Kinks wrecked their amps to get the distortion for "You Really Got Me" and "All Day and All of the Night."

Problem is - musicians are like workers in that they've bullshitted for so long even they don't know the truth now.

 

One of the most frustrating things about early rock and roll history is that when it was happening no one thought it would last so no journals or records were kept. Rocket 88 was in '51, but rock and roll didn't really break nationwide until 1955 with Rock Around the Clock. Most of the music that resembled Rocket 88 was labeled as Rhythm and Blues in the meantime.

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11 hours ago, KidNatural said:

One of the most frustrating things about early rock and roll history is that when it was happening no one thought it would last so no journals or records were kept. Rocket 88 was in '51, but rock and roll didn't really break nationwide until 1955 with Rock Around the Clock. Most of the music that resembled Rocket 88 was labeled as Rhythm and Blues in the meantime.

Exactly.  Early R&B and Country/Rockabilly that easily contributed to what rock became was treated as a silly fad.  Even rock & roll itself was not treated seriously by the press until basically the mid-60's.  So we're reliant on oral history and shady memories to figure out how things developed.  And everyone is lying liars.

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On 6/27/2016 at 2:41 PM, Control said:

This new Swans album is awesome. I was actually not a big fan of To Be Kind, which I think puts me in the minority, but I can get behind this.

I've listened to it a few times, so I feel like I've thought about it enough to respond finally. 

I think this is the first album that suffers from the "tour to record" style that Swans uses, in that a lot of songs that I heard evolve over the past couple years of touring are in my opinion inferior as studio tracks. I like this album a good amount, but it almost feels a bit too dynamic, if that makes sense? One of the things I've always respected and admired about Swans is the fact that Gira isn't afraid to push songs to their breaking points, explore far beyond the point that most artists would. This album feels very curated, as though for the first time in his life he has actually taken the audience listening experience in to account. In this respect, I think TBK will always be an album I view as a superior product, in that it sounds less of a compromise. I think you can listen to the four newer Swans albums in order and see why M. Gira has said this will be the final one with this lineup, while it doesn't sound like a final act or anything, I listen to it and get the distinct impression that he has pushed this sound as far as he thinks is interesting. The albums strikes me as caught in between him wanting to make another TBK/Seer and him wanting to make something different, more classic. I look forward to him taking some time to figure out the next step. 

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I've looked at this sitting around on CD a thousand times and never bought it, and now I'm kicking myself. Even the instrumental tracks are awesome. Mesmerizing hard-ass beats with the best scratching. And I know this is silly as hell to say, but the funny thing is when Rakim gets all nasal, he sounds like J-Roc (from the Roc-Pile. Sunnyvale Trailer Park mafuckas, knowmsayeeeen)

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Yeah, that hit my best friend pretty hard; he got to play with Mischief Brew and said Eric was a swell dude. Wonder what happened as apparently he was missing for two days prior. Also, I believe his last show was with World/Inferno on Friday or Saturday...

RIP

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With PIX Fest this upcoming weekend, I'm really going to love seeing a group of people that all loved and respected Erik's work come together and be together. I'm sure many Mischief Brew songs will be sung around the campfire.

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