Matches that rule, but don't get pimped heavily anymore?(or never in some cases)

[supremebve]

This match is pretty fun, Juvi probably doesn't get his due.

 

http://youtu.be/i5oyawzkXrY

[Ace]

Because his talent has been continually overshadowed by his being batshit insane.

[Brian Fowler]

Juvi's WWE run was something else. Pretty sure he could have plucked me out of the crowd and gotten ***, but you just kept waiting for him to be fired.

[Victator]

Yeah, if anything Taz winning at GAC was long overdue.

Douglas had been made to look like a punk for over a year. Taz winning the belt in his first match was anti climatic and made both Shane and the belt look like shit. If Shane had won the match, it would have gave him credibility again and it would show that winning the ECW title was not going to be easy. As it was Taz won every single confrontation with Shane, going back to when he won the ECW TV belt. Shane needed that win more than Taz, who would not have been damaged by the loss at all. As it was Taz and RVD were the only protected main eventers. Now you can say Shane Douglas should have dropped the belt months before, but at that time him losing made everyone (and the belt) look bad. 

 

Just about everything written in that post is dead wrong.

 

Nope I'm right. To go further on the shitty Florida crowds in 99. They sat on their hands all thru Armageddon 99, which was a decent enough show. Not even reacting to the Rock and Foley. The only non shitty Florida crowd I can think of is the night after the Orlando Wrestlemania. Even then they were doing stupid ROH type chants. It is hard to believe Florida was ever a wrestling hotbed. 

[MORELOCK]

Yeah, if anything Taz winning at GAC was long overdue.

Douglas had been made to look like a punk for over a year. Taz winning the belt in his first match was anti climatic and made both Shane and the belt look like shit. If Shane had won the match, it would have gave him credibility again and it would show that winning the ECW title was not going to be easy. As it was Taz won every single confrontation with Shane, going back to when he won the ECW TV belt. Shane needed that win more than Taz, who would not have been damaged by the loss at all. As it was Taz and RVD were the only protected main eventers. Now you can say Shane Douglas should have dropped the belt months before, but at that time him losing made everyone (and the belt) look bad.

Not sure what planet you were living on in the late 90's, but nothing did more to damage the ECW title than Douglas sitting on the shelf for all of 1998 and holding the belt the whole time. Douglas didn't need the win, he was by far the most protected ECW worker in the history of the fed - and for very little reason.

[Victator]

Now you can say Shane Douglas should have dropped the belt months before

 

I said that like an hour ago. Douglas being injured did hurt the title. Douglas said he wanted to lose the belt to Al Snow at the May PPV, but was vetoed. In the time he was injured, Taz beat him in every single one on one confrontation they had.The champion losing the title in his first major defense in nine months makes the belt look worthless. Douglas being injured for so long, combined with being made to look like a punk in every confrontation hurt him significantly. The main thing helping him was he was a good promo and could make the angles work,.I watched the 98/99 TV recently and the booking was not protecting him.  Even if he was squashed at House Party 99, he needed to beat Taz to validate the championship and himself. For the record, Douglas himself disagreed with me and thought Taz needed to win.  

and for very little reason. 

 

He was the best all around wrestler in the company (before the injuries piled up) and by the end could get over even the most nonsensical angles as logical.  

[RandomAct]

As I recall, the whole point of the Douglas/Taz feud was that everyone knew Taz was going to beat him, and that was the point.  Douglas did everything he could to get out of it.  Created an issue out of nothing to get Taz distracted with Sabu, sent the Triple Threat after him at every turn.  He wanted no part of Taz.  The payoff was Taz finally getting him.  Now I do agree that they could have probably done a little more out of letting Douglas get some kind of screwy win in at GAC.

[supremebve]

Juvi's WWE run was something else. Pretty sure he could have plucked me out of the crowd and gotten ***, but you just kept waiting for him to be fired.

I'm pretty sure I'm missing some good stories about The Juice(did anyone else notice his tights say juciy?).  My favorite Juvy non-wrestling moment is when he was doing commentary on Thunder during the repackage of Prince Iakea to The Artist Formerly Known as Prince Iakea and Juvi said something to the effect of "Wow, they finally gave the worst wrestler in the company something to do."

[MORELOCK]

Now you can say Shane Douglas should have dropped the belt months before

I said that like an hour ago.

Since that was my only original point and you needed to disagree with it, I must have missed it somewhere in all the "I'm right, you're wrong."

In the time he was injured, Taz beat him in every single one on one confrontation they had.

And the injured chickenshit heel should have been made to look stronger against the top face who was being pushed as unstoppable why, exactly?

The champion losing the title in his first major defense in nine months makes the belt look worthless. Douglas being injured for so long, combined with being made to look like a punk in every confrontation hurt him significantly. The main thing helping him was he was a good promo and could make the angles work,.I watched the 98/99 TV recently and the booking was not protecting him.

He was allowed to hold onto the top title for nine months without wrestling. How is that not being protected? And how is that not shitting all over the top title?

For the record, Douglas himself disagreed with me and thought Taz needed to win.

Possibly the smartest thing the man's ever said.

He was the best all around wrestler in the company (before the injuries piled up) and by the end could get over even the most nonsensical angles as logical.

Before the injuries piled up would apply to before 1998, not during. At that point Lynn, Taz, RVD, Bam Bam, Storm, and Candido were all working circles around him, and arguably others. Give me some of what you're smoking, Vic, I'm all out.

[cwoy2j]

 

Juvi's WWE run was something else. Pretty sure he could have plucked me out of the crowd and gotten ***, but you just kept waiting for him to be fired.

I'm pretty sure I'm missing some good stories about The Juice(did anyone else notice his tights say juciy?).  My favorite Juvy non-wrestling moment is when he was doing commentary on Thunder during the repackage of Prince Iakea to The Artist Formerly Known as Prince Iakea and Juvi said something to the effect of "Wow, they finally gave the worst wrestler in the company something to do."

 

 

I remember that too! Juvi was something else.

[Victator]

And the injured chickenshit heel should have been made to look stronger against the top face who was being pushed as unstoppable why, exactly?

 

Because he was the World Champion and should have at least won one or two confrontations.  

He was allowed to hold onto the top title for nine months without wrestling. How is that not being protected? And how is that not shitting all over the top title?

 

Because it was putting the spotlight on him in a time he needed to recover from injury. Instead it emphasizes his weakness and makes him look like a paper champion. It is shitting on the belt and that is all on Paul Heyman. The same guy who thought letting his champion and top contender get beat by the WWF champion was a great idea.Douglas argued to lose the belt to Al Snow at the May Pay Per View and was vetoed. But focusing on January 1999, both Shane and the title needed to be rehabilitated.  

[HumanChessgame]

Here's a Giant vs. Muta match I thought was a really smart big guy vs smaller guy match.

 

[MORELOCK]

And the injured chickenshit heel should have been made to look stronger against the top face who was being pushed as unstoppable why, exactly?

Because he was the World Champion and should have at least won one or two confrontations.

So when are you going to take credit for the booking of Sting-Hogan at Starrcade?

He was allowed to hold onto the top title for nine months without wrestling. How is that not being protected? And how is that not shitting all over the top title?

Because it was putting the spotlight on him in a time he needed to recover from injury. Instead it emphasizes his weakness and makes him look like a paper champion.

The entire angle was that he was running scared from Taz because he couldn't beat him. And he was right. Injured workers don't need the spotlight, they need time off to recover so they can be 100% for when they're back and ready for the spotlight.

But focusing on January 1999, both Shane and the title needed to be rehabilitated.

Which was the reason it was booked that way: the top babyface got the title he'd been chasing so the title could stop being wasted as a prop for an injured worker, and Douglas turned face so he could be booked stronger and not as a chickenshit heel.Heyman made a lot of booking mistakes in late-era ECW. This is not an example of one. The angle had been dragged out for over a year, there's no reason it should have dragged on longer.

[SovietShooter]

My two cents on this...

 

If they had done that same Douglas/Taz match a year prior, it would have made logical sense, and Douglas would have been able to stay in the main event challenging.  For the exact reason that Morelock said - the payoff to Taz/Douglas was Taz getting his hands on Douglas.  The outcome was inevitable once Taz got his hands on him.

 

However, once Douglas went out for an injury, the jig was up.  While a lot of the stuff in between to tread water was pretty cool, it totally killed Taz' momentum.  In hindsight, Douglas should have put over Snow, Taz then beat Snow, and then Douglas should have returned with the fake championship belt claiming to be the real champion.  Then you could have had Douglas get his heat back with a win, and then play chickenshit again avoiding a rematch.  The chase was just too long. 

[Victator]

Its not like it would have been dragged out another month. They had an ECW Arena show a week later where they ended up running a Shane/Taz match. Shane should have dropped the belt to Sabu in April of 98 and had time off. And I do not think Shane should have kept the belt while injured. Heyman was the only one who supported that. 

[MORELOCK]

Its not like it would have been dragged out another month. They had an ECW Arena show a week later where they ended up running a Shane/Taz match.

I just don't understand how that makes any sense. They were running what, 4 PPVs a year at this point? To delay the payoff for a week later at what, a house show? Even if it was a TNN taping it wouldn't be logical. It would have killed their PPV business, which probably wasn't doing all that great at the time anyway. Why would anyone buy the PPVs if they are used to build up ECW Arena shows?

[elizium]

Haven't read through all this thread, but my stock answer whenever something like this comes up is Mr. Perfect against Tito Santana from Saturday Night's Main Event. Not the tournament final, but Tito's rematch.

 

Probably Tito's last hurrah as a serious singles competitor (along with the appearance in the final of the Ultimate Survivor Match at Survivor Series I think the same year). Crowd was super into it, even though no one thought Tito was actually going to win. I was only 9 or 10, but even I knew that Tito was a guy that mostly lost by that point, but it is so easy to get sucked in.

 

Definitely my favourite match ever. Without question.

[elizium]

Again, have not read the whole thing (who has time to read on the internet?), but as a grainy ECW tape collecting dude at the time, I thought it was kind of bullshit that Heyman sat on the World Title that long. As an outsider, I knew Shane was "The Franchise", but it wouldn't have mattered to me who Taz won the belt from. He was The Guy, have him beat JT Smith for crissakes.

 

Another note, watching ECW on WWE's DVDs still looks weird as shit to me, like it's not even the same product. Where are the fucking tracking and dub lines? That's ECW.