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MAY 2016 WRESTLING DISCUSSION THREAD


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5 hours ago, JohnnyJ said:

Isn't the underlying problem that compensation in WWE is a little wacky? It's a worked sport that pays its talents based on position on the card and purse of the events as if it were the UFC or boxing.

This might have worked in the past but over the last few years the talent level in the WWE has really shot up and you end up with a upper-midcard logjam. Cena is the franchise and deserves every penny he gets. But when you start going down the line of your Ortons, Cesaros, Big Shows, Zigglers, Owens, Rusevs, etc.  it's hard to come up with a compelling reason why one is worth more than the others. Nobody is moving the needle or drawing in any measurable sense.  

How is WWE different from movies or TV shows.  Robert Downey Jr gets paid an assload for Iron Man 2 and Terrance Howard thinks he should get paid more.  They tell him to kick rocks and go get Don Cheadle.  They put a value on Howard that didn't match his.  Same with WWE and Ryback.

For everybody that thinks the WWE should adjust their pay structure, I need some suggestions on figures.  If Cena is 100%, what should other people be paid?

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3 hours ago, evilwaldo said:

New Day were  supposed to be heels when they started but got over and then jumped back and forth between heel and face.  Now they pretty much do whatever they want because if merchandise sales.

New Day were heels when they started out, and it took a little while for them to get over, it didn't happen overnight.

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38 minutes ago, Trocar Slush Weasel said:

How is WWE different from movies or TV shows.  Robert Downey Jr gets paid an assload for Iron Man 2 and Terrance Howard thinks he should get paid more.  They tell him to kick rocks and go get Don Cheadle.  They put a value on Howard that didn't match his.  Same with WWE and Ryback.

For everybody that thinks the WWE should adjust their pay structure, I need some suggestions on figures.  If Cena is 100%, what should other people be paid?

I actually referenced this with Javier Bardem and character actors.  They may not make the most money but they will see an increased number of roles.  Not many people are willing to play the villain and not many actors can play the villain.

When you are worried about how being the bad guy looks in terms of your personal image you turn away roles.

If a guy is willing to be a 100% heel and forego merchandise should they get a bump in base vis-a-vis other wrestlers?  It goes back to the article I posted regarding why Cena will never go heel.  He brings in too much merchandise wise for the WWE for them to do the turn.  They are not going to risk losing millions in merchandise sales.

What happens when the Make-A-Wish sponsors call and ask why the #1 guy is a bad guy now and not a good guy?

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17 minutes ago, The Green Meanie said:

New Day were heels when they started out, and it took a little while for them to get over, it didn't happen overnight.

It's that long build to get over that keeps you over. 

Which is why Roman Reigns will be a footnote.

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Sandow gets me because he was gold at SDCC making fun of the people on the floor.  He was gold as Miz's lackey.  Give him the MITB and immediately buried wasting a PPV.

Remember when Ziggler cashed against ADR and the time he won Survivor Series all on his own?  

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3 hours ago, Trocar Slush Weasel said:

How is WWE different from movies or TV shows.  Robert Downey Jr gets paid an assload for Iron Man 2 and Terrance Howard thinks he should get paid more.  They tell him to kick rocks and go get Don Cheadle.  They put a value on Howard that didn't match his.  Same with WWE and Ryback.

For everybody that thinks the WWE should adjust their pay structure, I need some suggestions on figures.  If Cena is 100%, what should other people be paid?

If there was a pay structure curve (considered 100%- whatever Cena's making):

100%- John Cena, Roman Reigns- whoever's "THE GUY" at the moment.

95%- Part-timer stars (albeit pro-rated based on how many shows a year they wrestle.)

90%- People fighting for the World Title, people actively feuding with THE GUY.

85%- Any "No doubt about it" main eventers not mentioned.

80%- The upper midcard types. Whoever "THE WOMAN" in the women's division picture is.

75%- most of the major rotation women's performers, the people in NXT who WWE had to get into a bidding war with a major competitor to sign (think Balor, Nakamura, Ricochet if he comes in.) 

70%- The midcarders who can at least get into the IC or US title picture. The women's performers who'd be more likely to be seen on "Total Divas" than on Raw or Smackdown.

65%- The "mechanics" in the company (or- carpenters, but who would have a chance at getting a major storyline or two of their own.) 

60%- The carpenters in the company. The top draws on NXT who weren't involved with a bidding war to get them (so think people like Bayley, American Alpha, etc.)

55%- Anyone else who's at least in rotation on the main roster. The top stars in NXT.

50%- Anyone who's 'officially' on the main roster, whether they get on TV or not. 

40%- Anyone who's in regular rotation on the NXT roster.

30%- Anyone who's in regular rotation on the Florida house show roster. 

20%- Anyone who's under an exclusive training contract to the WWE Performance Center who hasn't made live events yet.

10%- Any non-contracted workers who NXT brings in for jobber matches (pro-rated based on the shows they wrestle.)

5%- Alex Riley.

This may be a little out of wack- some people like Orton who'd be at 85% likely make closer to Cena money, most of the women apparently wouldn't make this much, and I'm pretty sure I might have Alex Riley as overpaid.

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7 hours ago, mattdangerously said:

And albums based on all the Batman movies.  And an alt-country album.  And Purple Rain 2:  The Purpling, which just replaced Electric Boogaloo as my go-to movie subtitle joke.

I need all this stuff in my life.

There is a reason he didn't release it.

Why could Austin get condoms and some guys can't get tshirts? Is it going to kill WWE to have 500 shirts for everyone that theycould at least offer to sell back to talent if they leave - no. But I'm still dumbfounded how they equate merch sales to popularity and don't even have merch available for some people.

Unless of course they are just straight up megalomaniacs, which has certainly been suggested over the years.

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That Prince/Bob Mould thing is a joke. 

Here's Bob Mould remembering Prince, from Bob's Facebook Page:

With everyone who ever said "hi" on the street to the guy coming forward and telling stories, I'm inclined to believe Bob. 

 

Quote

 

I never spoke with Prince. He always struck me as a private guy. Maybe he was shy around strangers. We never had much actual interaction – a couple nods in passing, but no real words were exchanged.

The Twin Cities of the 1980s was a very special time for all of us local musicians. There were the North Minneapolis R&B artists, the South Minneapolis guitar rock bands, and in the center of it all was First Avenue/7th Street Entry.

I've seen Prince perform sold out shows with The Revolution at First Ave, he and a rhythm section jamming as a guitar/bass/drums three piece in the Entry for 30 people, and was selfishly frustrated when he took over "the main room" for 25 days of filming Purple Rain.

I had the pleasure of spending seven days recording the basic tracks for my first solo album at Paisley Park in December 1988. It was the most professional studio I had ever seen at that point in my life. On the seventh day, I moved from the B room to Studio A, which was Prince's primary room. I remember seeing Sheila E's percussion in one of the isolation booths. The large control room was decorated with several of Prince's scarves. It certainly felt like Prince's home.

Prince was an artist through and through – always pushing himself to new levels, often creating controversy through his actions and words, and ultimately creating a lifetime of wonderful memories for the world with his incredible volumes of published (and unheard) works.

I heard the news while driving from Tomah WI to Minneapolis. I immediately flipped on The Current 89.3 FM to make sure what I was hearing was true. Sure enough, there was a live report from outside Paisley Park confirming the sad news of Prince's passing.

I'm two blocks from First Avenue as I write these words. Friday and Saturday nights, I will walk that same stage we all know from the movie. The exterior walls of First Avenue are covered with stars to honor the musicians who made an impact on music fans in Minnesota.

Make no mistake: Prince was the brightest star in these Northern skies. My deepest condolences to his family, friends, and fellow musicians. Prince's music will give consolation and comfort to the collective grief. Godspeed.

 

 

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5 hours ago, DTTW said:

There is a reason he didn't release it.

Why could Austin get condoms and some guys can't get t-shirts? Is it going to kill WWE to have 500 shirts for everyone that they could at least offer to sell back to talent if they leave - no. But I'm still dumbfounded how they equate merch sales to popularity and don't even have merch available for some people.

Unless of course they are just straight up megalomaniacs, which has certainly been suggested over the years.

There is simply no excuse not to have a t-shirt for every person on the roster.  You know when Cena and Rollins come back, they're going to be swimming in new ones.  And granted, Cena needs 10,000 tees to satisfy demand.  But they can't throw in an order for 1,000 for Sandow? Come on.

How they keep ignoring Tyler Breeze's selfie stick is ridiculous.  Make that sucker for $3.00, sell it for $15.00. 

There are so many inexpensive items they could do.  Have some sports/water bottles with the WWE logo slapped on them at least, yeesh!

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It was mentioned earlier that Sasha Banks could pull off stuffed animals with shutter shades etc., and makeup.  My daughter would love the shit out of this!  Hell, I may make her a Sasha bear just for her enjoyment.

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6 hours ago, SorceressKnight said:

If there was a pay structure curve (considered 100%- whatever Cena's making):

100%- John Cena, Roman Reigns- whoever's "THE GUY" at the moment.

95%- Part-timer stars (albeit pro-rated based on how many shows a year they wrestle.)

90%- People fighting for the World Title, people actively feuding with THE GUY.

85%- Any "No doubt about it" main eventers not mentioned.

80%- The upper midcard types. Whoever "THE WOMAN" in the women's division picture is.

75%- most of the major rotation women's performers, the people in NXT who WWE had to get into a bidding war with a major competitor to sign (think Balor, Nakamura, Ricochet if he comes in.) 

70%- The midcarders who can at least get into the IC or US title picture. The women's performers who'd be more likely to be seen on "Total Divas" than on Raw or Smackdown.

65%- The "mechanics" in the company (or- carpenters, but who would have a chance at getting a major storyline or two of their own.) 

60%- The carpenters in the company. The top draws on NXT who weren't involved with a bidding war to get them (so think people like Bayley, American Alpha, etc.)

55%- Anyone else who's at least in rotation on the main roster. The top stars in NXT.

50%- Anyone who's 'officially' on the main roster, whether they get on TV or not. 

40%- Anyone who's in regular rotation on the NXT roster.

30%- Anyone who's in regular rotation on the Florida house show roster. 

20%- Anyone who's under an exclusive training contract to the WWE Performance Center who hasn't made live events yet.

10%- Any non-contracted workers who NXT brings in for jobber matches (pro-rated based on the shows they wrestle.)

5%- Alex Riley.

This may be a little out of wack- some people like Orton who'd be at 85% likely make closer to Cena money, most of the women apparently wouldn't make this much, and I'm pretty sure I might have Alex Riley as overpaid.

Based on these percentages, either Cena is gonna have to take a paycut or ZZ will be swimming in new Corvettes.  Also, it appears that you will have people's salaries changing all the time.  Zach Ryder would have gone thru a bunch of these tiers in the last month.

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10 hours ago, Trocar Slush Weasel said:

How is WWE different from movies or TV shows.  Robert Downey Jr gets paid an assload for Iron Man 2 and Terrance Howard thinks he should get paid more.  They tell him to kick rocks and go get Don Cheadle.  They put a value on Howard that didn't match his.  Same with WWE and Ryback.

For everybody that thinks the WWE should adjust their pay structure, I need some suggestions on figures.  If Cena is 100%, what should other people be paid?

It's apples and oranges. In tv/movies there are many places to work. Terrance Howard left the Iron Man franchise but now stars in one of the top shows on tv. In wrestling if you leave WWE there is no other place to go to make a living. 

I don't think you should be entitled to make a ton of money just because you're a WWE performer. If they want to pay the whole roster $50k per year it's their own prerogative. What's screwed up is how much your pay is tied in to your placement on the card when your placement on the card is arbitrary and nobody outside of Cena is drawing.

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1 hour ago, Burgundy LaRue said:

There is simply no excuse not to have a t-shirt for every person on the roster.  You know when Cena and Rollins come back, they're going to swimming in new ones.  And granted, Cena needs 10,000 tees to satisfy demand.  But they can't throw in an order for 1,000 for Sandow? Come on.

How they keep ignoring Tyler Breeze's selfie stick is ridiculous.  Make that sucker for $3.00, sell it for $15.00. 

There are so many inexpensive items they could do.  Have some sports/water bottles with the WWE logo slapped on them at least, yeesh!

Granted, T-shirts are cheap, but if you make 1,000 Sandow shirts and only sell 100, you're still stuck with 900 shirts.  Just because you make a lot of crap doesn't mean you're automatically going to sell it all (unless it's a unicorn horn.)I can only imagine how many Miz "chick magnet" shirts are clogging their warehouse.

 

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8 minutes ago, sydneybrown said:

Granted, T-shirts are cheap, but if you make 1,000 Sandow shirts and only sell 100, you're still stuck with 900 shirts.  Just because you make a lot of crap doesn't mean you're automatically going to sell it all (unless it's a unicorn horn.)I can only imagine how many Miz "chick magnet" shirts are clogging their warehouse.

 

They buy everything at wholesale prices.  Even if they put the t-shirts on sale for $10 to clear them out, they turn a profit.  If it still doesn't sell, ship them to whatever country thinks the Buffalo Bills are 4-time NFL world champions and get a tax write-off.

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2 hours ago, Burgundy LaRue said:

There is simply no excuse not to have a t-shirt for every person on the roster.  You know when Cena and Rollins come back, they're going to swimming in new ones.  And granted, Cena needs 10,000 tees to satisfy demand.  But they can't throw in an order for 1,000 for Sandow? Come on.

How they keep ignoring Tyler Breeze's selfie stick is ridiculous.  Make that sucker for $3.00, sell it for $15.00. 

There are so many inexpensive items they could do.  Have some sports/water bottles with the WWE logo slapped on them at least, yeesh!

Sandow will sell out at one house show and they will proceed to bury him.

 

You know what is the worst part of all this?  They will find a way to sell merchandise for Camp WWE to promote the show.  

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53 minutes ago, Playa Shunna Ver 3.0 said:

30+ years and literally billions of dollars made.....but somehow you still find a way to question the WWE merchandising machine.  I think they know what they are doing.  

I think not given the limited offerings.  It is not billions of dollars made but billions of dollars left on the table.  I think they left more on the table then made.

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1 hour ago, Playa Shunna Ver 3.0 said:

30+ years and literally billions of dollars made.....but somehow you still find a way to question the WWE merchandising machine.  I think they know what they are doing.  

IMO, you can't look at what they're doing and not think they could do more.  Simple things could do a lot toward investing in the future and gaining new fans.  If they can develop a rolling ring truck for a few of their guys, how hard can it be to consider putting together a Big Sister-type Bayley doll?  Make a few and see where they go.  If they don't sell, give them to some children's charities with Bayley handing them out in person.  You're a PG company, develop some PG friendly merchandise for the kids. How hard can it be to have a new coloring book with current stars printed and sold in Dollar General stores? And this is just stuff that some of us have put out there during our coffee breaks.  Pull some stars into a brainstorming session and I bet they'd come up with some cool stuff.  New Day got over something that doubles as a sex toy, for crying out loud.  Invest in the roster and make money while doing it.

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On the Ryback stuff, what he is making is a case that talent should be "harder to work with" and should refuse to job at times, because ultimately if they are draws, it is good for their bottom line to protect their spot.

 

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No one is saying WWE is bad at what they do in terms of merchandise.  The Bayley slap bracelets are a great example of taking a simple idea and making a nice sum of cash with it. But they could be better.

How many times have we heard not everyone likes Cena or whoever is the flavor of the month? How often have we complained that they need to develop new stars before Cena's body finally gives out?  That's not going to happen without some effort, both inside and outside the ring.

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