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MAY 2016 WRESTLING DISCUSSION THREAD


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I'm pretty sure Adderall is on everyone's no no list without a specific waiver (that is what Chris Davis got popped for in baseball)

And it is definitely on WADA's banned list

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19 minutes ago, RIPPA said:

I'm pretty sure Adderall is on everyone's no no list without a specific waiver (that is what Chris Davis got popped for in baseball)

And it is definitely on WADA's banned list

Yeah, I'm aware of it in MLB. I just wanted to sound like a network talking head, apparently. 

Honestly didn't think adderall was still a "thing". Garnering such strictness and all that. 

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7 hours ago, Brysynner said:

I don't follow puroresu anymore but muscular American heel is not a good role in Japan anymore?

Also I think it was on Jericho's podcast, he was looking in to doing the motivational speaker gimmick so he could do that and wrestle an odd indy show here and there. I am curious how low the offer Vince made was

I'm more thinking in terms of style. Nothing I've seen or heard about Ryback suggest he would be a good fit.

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Eh, would Ryback be any less likely to catch on in New Japan than Juice Robinson/CJ Parker?

Ryback should have known the contract negotiation wasn't going to go well when he walked into Vince's office and said "Feed me more" and Vince's reply was "I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today."

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5 minutes ago, Vader does my taxes! said:

Ryback should have known the contract negotiation wasn't going to go well when he walked into Vince's office and said "Feed me more" and Vince's reply was "I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a beef wrap with ketchup today."

 

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3 hours ago, The Comedian said:

Apparently part of his problem with WWE stems from the fact that he filed for a trademark for "The Big Guy" before the company did...

Given the amount of powerlifters I am surprised nobody filed for it yet.  At least one of the supplement companies.

3 hours ago, rzombie1988 said:

He's right on what he said.

The people who win more = Get paid more, get better booking, get to look better and end up having better wrestling and non-wrestling options outside of WWE.

The people who lose more = "Sorry, creative has nothing for you", "We wish you well on your future endeavors", "Hey we got this new stiff from developmental, don't complain when he legit kicks you in the head and you get hurt when you lose to him tonight, k?".

The problem is WWE decides who is going to be a star, not the fans, as we are seeing weekly with Reigns vs the fans. They could make Primo the next Reigns and due to the "no one is bigger than the brand mentality", it wouldn't matter. But what we are seeing is this - WWE ratings have been going down for over a decade and don't see to be picking up. They aren't even 1/4th of where they were when they were hot, and until HHH takes over, it's hard to see anything changing. Yeah, they are always going to get the 2,000 who want to see the show when it is town, but they don't even advertise who will be there, so it doesn't matter. They can also play with the numbers any way they want with the network, but 2 million is their ceiling at their peak, and that's globally. Not only in the states, and it's really not impressive

Even HHH taking over is not going to help.  The company is far too big trying to do everything under the sun while not being able to do the basic things correct.  

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4 hours ago, Brysynner said:

By the way Ryback's not wrong. Yes there's difference in value between Roman Reigns and Heath Slater, but how much of that is due to Joe Anoa'i and Heath Miller and how much of that is due to WWE Creative and the whims of Vince McMahon?

Would it hurt WWE to make the payscale closer so a good mechanic would get a base pay similar to that of the top guy? The top guy still gets perks like more merch and things of that nature. Maybe allow the guys to get sponsorships without WWE choosing who gets to be the sponsor for something...plus with UFC Reebok issues, WWE could point to themselves and say see you can make more money with us if you're good enough.

Are you saying that somebody like Brad Maddox should be close to the same payscale as John Cena?  John Cena can go on the Today Show, Ellen, etc and get WWE thousands of dollars of free advertising and Ryback can barely mumble out his few catchphrases.  Of course certain people have more value than others.  Whether that's WWE that decides it or the fans doesn't matter.  The WWE has plenty of ways of determine a wrestler's value to the WWE and I'm sure that helps them decide how much to pay them.

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1 hour ago, RIPPA said:

I'm pretty sure Adderall is on everyone's no no list without a specific waiver (that is what Chris Davis got popped for in baseball)

And it is definitely on WADA's banned list

I get where you're coming from, but those are legitimate competitive sports. In wrestling, why would you not want your wrestlers to have increased concentration, coordination, energy and speed? Providing their cardiology tests showed they wouldn't drop dead of a heart attack mid-match, of course. I understand on a logical level why it isn't good to have a roster full of guys on amphetamines, be it due to PR concerns, the issues other prescription drugs have been over the years, or the feds being up Vince's ass again or any other reason under the sun. But from a "moral" standpoint (for example, McGwire and Sosa being gassed up when breaking Maris' HR record) I don't see why it would matter.

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52 minutes ago, paintedbynumbers said:

An opening for "preshow stopper" has become available  who is interested?

Its the final step in the "Ziggler = Poor HBK" story!

 

I am the pre show stopper! The semi recognizable! The dark main event!

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Now that Ryback's on his way out, who will be the last member of Nexus.

Heath Slater bumps like a JCP jobber.  He should have a job for life.  But Darren Young is higher up the card and is more useful to the company from a PR standpoint.  Advantage: DY.

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3 hours ago, PetrolCB said:

Adderall is seriously on the banned list? That's ridiculous.

You can say the same for weed. But, I guess you can't have anyone doing a Make A Wish while smelling like Otto's jacket, can you?

The thought of all the patients on chemo coming around a wrestler just to take a big whiff of him is far more amusing to me than it should be.

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2 hours ago, Vader does my taxes! said:

Eh, would Ryback be any less likely to catch on in New Japan than Juice Robinson/CJ Parker?

Ryback should have known the contract negotiation wasn't going to go well when he walked into Vince's office and said "Feed me more" and Vince's reply was "I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today."

I am assuming Ryback would want a lot more money than Juice Robinson, plus I can't see New Japan using a 34 year old ten year veteran to open shows. If something was worked out I assume he'd get more the Elgin treatment, but Elgin got in originally with the ROH agreement so it was a little different.

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1 hour ago, Vader does my taxes! said:

Now that Ryback's on his way out, who will be the last member of Nexus.

Heath Slater bumps like a JCP jobber.  He should have a job for life.  But Darren Young is higher up the card and is more useful to the company from a PR standpoint.  Advantage: DY.

Otunga is still employed by the company as well. Young was kicked out of the original, and Slater didn't make it to the New Nexus, so I'll give the nod to Otunga.

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6 hours ago, Trocar Slush Weasel said:

Are you saying that somebody like Brad Maddox should be close to the same payscale as John Cena?  John Cena can go on the Today Show, Ellen, etc and get WWE thousands of dollars of free advertising and Ryback can barely mumble out his few catchphrases.  Of course certain people have more value than others.  Whether that's WWE that decides it or the fans doesn't matter.  The WWE has plenty of ways of determine a wrestler's value to the WWE and I'm sure that helps them decide how much to pay them.

But that's also an example of the world of difference.

Brad Maddox (who was never a big part of WWE programming, and isn't even in the "well, at least he's a good hand or a solid carpenter/mechanic type" to give him value there, would have lower value than John Cena no matter how you divide payment- overness, in ring ability, whatever. 

By contrast, though? Even if Ryback was never exactly the best in-ring performer- with how over he was at various times and how high he got up the card- you can absolutely say "Yes, at this point in time, Ryback absolutely SHOULD HAVE been a main event-level guy (and thus able to make main event-level money), and the only reason he is not around the main eventers' level is directly because the Creative team screwed up with him so badly (and so many times, at that) that Creative objectively hindered his star power (and thus, his earning potential) from what he should be at this point in time."

That would give Ryback more of a case here, since it's not even "Ryback isn't as valuable as he feels his value is", but rather "Ryback absolutely SHOULD be as valuable to the WWE as he thinks he is, and for some reason, he's NOT- but the reason he's not is due to something entirely out of his control."

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7 hours ago, Zakk_Sabbath said:

I get where you're coming from, but those are legitimate competitive sports. In wrestling, why would you not want your wrestlers to have increased concentration, coordination, energy and speed? Providing their cardiology tests showed they wouldn't drop dead of a heart attack mid-match, of course. I understand on a logical level why it isn't good to have a roster full of guys on amphetamines, be it due to PR concerns, the issues other prescription drugs have been over the years, or the feds being up Vince's ass again or any other reason under the sun. But from a "moral" standpoint (for example, McGwire and Sosa being gassed up when breaking Maris' HR record) I don't see why it would matter.

Well I don't think the WWE is factoring in the "moral" part at all (since clearly there are guys using other PEDs who aren't getting popped and for your example - there aren't really "records" to break that folks would think are "tainted".)

Most likely their concerns are:

1) PR 

2) Health concerns (and more tied in for the PR reasons)

And it does appear that the WWE does have some sort of "waiver" policy for it (at least reading between the lines of what Rose is saying) - it is just that he thought just showing the doctor's note was enough where they clearly have a more formal approval process

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5 hours ago, SorceressKnight said:

But that's also an example of the world of difference.

Brad Maddox (who was never a big part of WWE programming, and isn't even in the "well, at least he's a good hand or a solid carpenter/mechanic type" to give him value there, would have lower value than John Cena no matter how you divide payment- overness, in ring ability, whatever. 

By contrast, though? Even if Ryback was never exactly the best in-ring performer- with how over he was at various times and how high he got up the card- you can absolutely say "Yes, at this point in time, Ryback absolutely SHOULD HAVE been a main event-level guy (and thus able to make main event-level money), and the only reason he is not around the main eventers' level is directly because the Creative team screwed up with him so badly (and so many times, at that) that Creative objectively hindered his star power (and thus, his earning potential) from what he should be at this point in time."

That would give Ryback more of a case here, since it's not even "Ryback isn't as valuable as he feels his value is", but rather "Ryback absolutely SHOULD be as valuable to the WWE as he thinks he is, and for some reason, he's NOT- but the reason he's not is due to something entirely out of his control."

So, what is your point?  Ryback should be paid like a main eventer because he could be a main eventer if WWE Creative was more creative?  It doesn't matter how we got here, whether WWE Creative sucks or whatever, but we are here. He's where he is and WWE will pay him whatever they want to pay him and he can refuse to take it.  Just like he's done.

Where he absolutely lost me is, right off the bat, saying "contrary to reports it isn’t over money".  Then spending the rest of his rant talking about money.  Like when Kevin Garnett signed the largest contract in the history of sports and the first thing he said when he sat down at the press conference was, "This isn't about the money".

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I think Ryback's point is less, "I should be paid like a main eventer" and more "People should be paid based on how they're used."

For example, Heath Slater is trusted enough to work with legends and is used as a pretty consistent JTTS.  He has value to the company that is greater than his position on the card.  It isn't Brad Maddox should be paid the same as Cena, it's the guys who are on the road every night taking the same (if not more) bumps as the main guys or who are jobbing to the main guys every night should be paid comparably. 

Ryback's other argument is that is doesn't make sense to base pay on position on the card when that is "entirely" in the company's control.  Would anyone put it past someone, whether Vince or someone else, to say "Hey, Ryback's contract is coming up.  We better depush him for a bit to lower his value."  They certainly aren't going to strap a rocket to him right before or during negotiations.  Depress his value, sign him to a good (in their eyes) contract, and then they have someone they can push for a few years at a reasonable price.

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What is Otunga doing for them? They've already got Jerry McDevitt. 

Also, Darren Young is ostensibly getting an angle with Bob Backlund (spoiler alert) so they've got some kind of plan for him. Even if they didn't run the angle the first time they tried it for whatever reason. 

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