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Marvel Phase III Movie Discussion Thread

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Contentious C

Contentious C

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On 8/14/2018 at 5:25 PM, tbarrie said:

I've seen this suggested before, but it seems unlikely. Number one, she's nowhere near that powerful, either in the comics or in the MCU so far. Number two, the plot of Infinity War already revolves around a macguffin that grants complete omnipotence. Why would they use Wanda for a reset when the Infinity Gauntlet is in play?

It kinda doesn't grant omnipotence, though.

I mean, *if it gets used* it almost does, but somehow in the process of watching it in the theater, I completely missed the plot point that Team Titan was able to fend off Thanos so well specifically because wielding the Gauntlet involved making a fist. It's such a little detail, and the moment, for example, when Dr. Strange whispers to the Cloak of Levitation to keep him from closing his hand, or when Tony shoots the Gauntlet with a nano-gizmo, is easy to miss.  

There's also the fact that Thor throws Stormbreaker straight through a direct blast from the Gauntlet and embeds it in Thanos' chest. And, when the Snap happens, it completely fries the Gauntlet and scars up Thanos' left arm (in a way that looks suspiciously Bifrost-y to me).  I feel like what we're supposed to glean from that is that this was the one and only large-scale effect that the Gauntlet could pull off.  Now, we're left with someone who could kick the bejesus out of everyone without the Gauntlet and now can just kick more bejesus out of them (as he did for the bulk of the first film) rather than ring the bell for last call on the Universe. 

So, could Wanda, whose powers are derived directly from a gem, keep him at bay? Why not? "Hey, I just distorted the shape of your hand so it no longer closes. Have fun!"  

And yeah, Wanda's also been jumping in huge leaps with every movie. Not a ton going on in Ultron, as much support as muscle in Civil War, but with IW, she's going toe-to-toe with Thanos' lieutenants and tossing the space shredders around on the Wakandan battlefield. 

Also fun fact; guess what Nick Fury's driving in his post-credits scene! It's... it's...!!

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tbarrie

tbarrie

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On 8/16/2018 at 2:56 PM, Contentious C said:

It kinda doesn't grant omnipotence, though.

I mean, *if it gets used* it almost does, but somehow in the process of watching it in the theater, I completely missed the plot point that Team Titan was able to fend off Thanos so well specifically because wielding the Gauntlet involved making a fist. It's such a little detail, and the moment, for example, when Dr. Strange whispers to the Cloak of Levitation to keep him from closing his hand, or when Tony shoots the Gauntlet with a nano-gizmo, is easy to miss.  

Yeah, I was going to point this out earlier in the thread when somebody was speculating that Thanos would have done better/worse in that fight if he had more/fewer gems at that time. It was a really well laid-out fight IMO.

On 8/16/2018 at 2:56 PM, Contentious C said:

There's also the fact that Thor throws Stormbreaker straight through a direct blast from the Gauntlet and embeds it in Thanos' chest. And, when the Snap happens, it completely fries the Gauntlet and scars up Thanos' left arm (in a way that looks suspiciously Bifrost-y to me).  I feel like what we're supposed to glean from that is that this was the one and only large-scale effect that the Gauntlet could pull off.  

Not sure exactly what you're saying with that last point. Do you mean the Gauntlet was specifically designed to wipe out half the universe when its fingers were snapped, and that it couldn't do any other cosmic-level effects? That's possible, but it seems unlikely, given that we saw Thanos use the unfinished Gauntlet to do all sorts of things. Or do you mean it could only effect a cosmic-level change once, and that burned it out? That does seem more likely, and I suppose it refutes my calling the Gauntlet "in play". But... well, see below.

On 8/16/2018 at 2:56 PM, Contentious C said:

Now, we're left with someone who could kick the bejesus out of everyone without the Gauntlet and now can just kick more bejesus out of them (as he did for the bulk of the first film) rather than ring the bell for last call on the Universe. 

So, could Wanda, whose powers are derived directly from a gem, keep him at bay? Why not? "Hey, I just distorted the shape of your hand so it no longer closes. Have fun!"  

Sure, I don't disagree with any of this. My point wasn't "Thanos is unstoppable" or "Wanda isn't powerful". My point was simply that if they feel they need to hit the cosmic reset button (and they kind of have to), the heroes obtaining/repairing/modifying the Infinity Gauntlet seems much more likely than Wanda suddenly being able to do it. They could have Wanda do it. They could also have Hawkeye suddenly display previously unknown cosmic power and do it. But either would feel like a gigantic asspull IMO, whereas the Gauntlet and its power is now well-established in the MCU.

On 8/16/2018 at 2:56 PM, Contentious C said:

Also fun fact; guess what Nick Fury's driving in his post-credits scene! It's... it's...!!

I didn't notice. Was it a Shield Flying Car?

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Contentious C

Contentious C

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3 hours ago, tbarrie said:

Not sure exactly what you're saying with that last point. Do you mean the Gauntlet was specifically designed to wipe out half the universe when its fingers were snapped, and that it couldn't do any other cosmic-level effects?

I really have no clue how you thought I might be saying this.  Very much the latter point. The Gauntlet itself was well-made, but even it had limits, and those limits were blown like the universe's saddest fuse. 

 

3 hours ago, tbarrie said:

My point was simply that if they feel they need to hit the cosmic reset button (and they kind of have to), the heroes obtaining/repairing/modifying the Infinity Gauntlet seems much more likely than Wanda suddenly being able to do it. They could have Wanda do it. They could also have Hawkeye suddenly display previously unknown cosmic power and do it. But either would feel like a gigantic asspull IMO, whereas the Gauntlet and its power is now well-established in the MCU.

Why do people always go to Hawkeye?

It's the Hawkeye Hyperbole Hypothesis.  That's what it is. It's sad those are probably going to be the 3 most beautiful words in a row that I ever write.

Anyway, moving on.  The overwhelming majority of the points I made in the earlier post were dealing with one statement alone: the notion that Gauntlet implies being unstoppable. I think we've beaten it into the dirt that that isn't the case. The scenarios I provided were instances where that, well, for lack of a better word, stoppability could be on display.  Hell, they could have even had a foreshadowing freakout moment with her, where she has to kill Vision, then she sees what Thanos is trying to do with the Time gem, flips her shit, and *does* warp the Gauntlet itself mid-process to try to keep Vision from dying twice.  But all Thanos would have to do is smack her across the forest, touch the Reality gem with his free hand, fix things, and then finish the job.  An extra beat of film space, another 30-45 seconds, and now the non-comic-nerds have an insight into how freakish her powers can be.  This is all spitballing here.

Does any of this mean they will reset with Wanda? They could.  I think eventually they will.  Will they do it *next*?  No, not on your life. Wanda being capable of that effect is, at worst, a medium ass-pull.  She is, after all, easily the second strongest non-Gem-wielder, behind Thor. But at no point did I claim she was going to evolve that quickly into the Plot Point of Doom.  Since, obviously, she's dead.

But my best guess is the whole Gauntlet bit gets put away with the sequel.

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tbarrie

tbarrie

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2 hours ago, Contentious C said:

The overwhelming majority of the points I made in the earlier post were dealing with one statement alone: the notion that Gauntlet implies being unstoppable.


Fair enough. Since that isn't what I was saying, it seems we have nothing to argue about. I'll have the internet shut down.

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AxB

AxB

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See when Thor was detailing how he'd lost everyone in his life - his Dad, Mum, Brother, Sister and Best Friend were all dead. He never mentioned that his girlfriend dumped him too. I guess he got over her pretty quickly. Also, when he said his best friend was stabbed in the heart, he could have been talking about Heimdall, Fandrall, Volstagg or even Coulson.

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muhammedboehm

muhammedboehm

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15 minutes ago, AxB said:

See when Thor was detailing how he'd lost everyone in his life - his Dad, Mum, Brother, Sister and Best Friend were all dead. He never mentioned that his girlfriend dumped him too. I guess he got over her pretty quickly. Also, when he said his best friend was stabbed in the heart, he could have been talking about Heimdall, Fandrall, Volstagg or even Coulson.

I could be wrong but wasn't it reveled to the Avengers that Coulson wasn't dead at some point. I know Fury/Hill know.

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Raziel

Raziel

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46 minutes ago, muhammedboehm said:

I could be wrong but wasn't it reveled to the Avengers that Coulson wasn't dead at some point. I know Fury/Hill know.

I'm pretty sure the movies don't give a tuppenny fuck about what goes in in AoS (or Netflix, for that matter), as the movie dept doesn't tell the TV dept what goes on and they had to rewrite half a season after Winter Solider premired.  Hence, I don't think Coulson being alive is canon, unless he shows up in another movie (that's not Capt Marvel).

 

The plus of that is we never have to worry about Inhumans popping up in the MCU.

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The Natural

The Natural

Posted
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1 hour ago, tbarrie said:

It's a great scene, but it kind of emphasizes how poor a job the MCU had done to that point establishing villains: the only way they could do a giant super battle was to make it hero vs hero.

I agree with that. Marvel Studios has picked up it's villains game since then with Vulture, Hela, Kilmonger and Thanos in a row. Thanos the best of the lot.

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