Jump to content
DVDVR Message Board
MGFanJay

WWE Raw 4-4-16 - Post-WrestleMania Raw

Recommended Posts

20 hours ago, Jrag said:

The crowd was really into like 4/5ths of the show.  Better than most nights.  Better than most post-WM nights.

They cheered Vince when he came out because they love Vince, they booed Vince because they don't like the direction things are going, they cheered him again when they realized Shane was still in the story and on and on.  It's not that hard to figure out, guys.  

If you don't understand why Roman is getting booed out of every building, or why the same fans who cheered him two years ago are now booing, then I don't know what to tell you.  Maybe you have shit taste in wrestling?  Maybe you ignore all context intentionally? I don't know, but it's definitely not because everyone in the crowd is a moron.

To be fair, Roman gets more cheers than boos on the house shows. And he did pop the crowd at WM's finish, despite them booing him the entire match.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, bink_winkleman said:

If they'd just build up a compelling IC title scene around "guys who can wrestle/internet darlings," they wouldn't have to flip the WCW structure at all. People would be more accepting of the kiddie/merchandise main eventers if they had something else to be invested in and a belt they could rally around. They started to move this direction with Bryan's IC run and his Smackdown takeover, but obv that all fell apart and they weren't committed to the concept so much as throwing fans a bone with D-Bry. It's ridiculous how little they try and fit into so much programming.

That's the reason why I suggested flipping the structure - the Intercontinental and U.S. titles are so meaningless that it's hard to rally behind them, and they'll always be the no. 2-3 titles in the fans' eyes anyway. Even though they haven't exactly protected the WWE title, since it's the top title, it'll always be a certain amount of protected. Plus you could say that the non-internet darlings don't need the belt anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, JohnnyJ said:

 

The entire purpose of the heel authority figure in to build faces (and heels to a lesser extent). The success rate of the Authority in getting acts over is pretty pathetic. The Authority has spent months trying to get Roman Reigns over and he's in worse shape than when they started.

Part of it is the Authority. Part of it is a change in heel/face dynamics. 

Whatever it is, if you're a heel commissioner and the audience is apathetic towards you, then you're serving no purpose and just getting in the way of what people actually want to see. 

But that is also a problem with The Authority- the "Reality Era" has officially changed the definition of "what it means to be THE MAN in a sports entertainment ring". The biggest change of CM Punk's Pipebomb wasn't a move towards "more shoot angles" or "more indy/smark darling workers"- but CM Punk's promo basically saying "the fact that I was a main eventer for basically the last three years and a World Champion in WWE for the past five? All worthless- it meant no more than a jobber on Superstars. That WWE World Championship? It's a prop, and I'm going to steal this prop from WWE in revenge for them not making me a real star. I don't really give a flying fuck about being the main eventer or the World Champion- I'm not in JOHN CENA'S SPOT, and get all the things that means- all the merchandise, all the movie deals, all the charity deals, all the endorsements, all of these things, and so I'm not the FACE OF THE WWE, and if I can't be the face of the WWE I'll destroy the WWE for not making me that guy." 

And IT WORKED. Now, as a result- even "feuds", "storylines","main events", and "titles" don't matter- all that matters is "Is YOUR GUY in the top spot as THE MAN?".

For THAT end, The Authority does have at least one good benefit to the show on TV. They aren't good with getting THE ACTS over- but on the other hand, The Authority was able to successfully dial things back onscreen and make it a plot point in kayfabe that "If YOUR GUY holds the WWE World Heavyweight Championship, the fact he is WWE WHC inherently means that he IS the Face of the WWE and he IS THE MAN, solely by virtue of being the WWE World Heavyweight Champion- and anyone who DOES hold that title automatically becomes the Face of the WWE", thus putting all of these new things people demand from THEIR hero to be a real star and put them on that one McGuffin of the title and, in the process, allowing WWE to write stories around the belt. 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, jstout said:

That's the reason why I suggested flipping the structure - the Intercontinental and U.S. titles are so meaningless that it's hard to rally behind them, and they'll always be the no. 2-3 titles in the fans' eyes anyway. Even though they haven't exactly protected the WWE title, since it's the top title, it'll always be a certain amount of protected. Plus you could say that the non-internet darlings don't need the belt anyway.

Gotcha, but I don't think it's impossible to build the IC Title back up to what it used to be and get the fans to support that. It would be hard - so it's certainly beyond they're capabilities - but not impossible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, SorceressKnight said:

And that's also the problem. Both sides have an idiotic move.

The message that should have come from the Daniel Bryan saga was:

"We can't always give you every single thing that you want, all the time- but we DO hear you, even when you don't think we do.

And when it becomes apparent to everyone that you NEED something to happen- we'll give it to you, and we're going to make you want it more and more to the point that when it finally does happen, you'll be happier than you ever thought this show could make you feel again.

You'll get it, and even the most hardened smark on the planet will feel like you're six years old again when you finally get it.

We can't deal in passing fancies, we're not going to throw Fandango a reign with the World Title because you thought it was funny to sing along to his theme one week- but when you truly MUST HAVE something, we know." 

 

The message that a lot of fans got from the Daniel Bryan saga, and which was doubled by Seth Rollins cashing in last year and aborting Roman Reigns's big "he defeated the undefeatable monster!" match with Lesnar as effectively a no-decision, however, was:

 "WE...OWN...YOU.

We saw it two straight years- you changed your plans because we WOULDN'T LET YOU go through with it...and now we know we're in control.

We now know for a fact that if we whine loudly enough, you'll fold like an umbrella and give us whatever we want.

Now, you can just fire the bookers, fire Creative- WE'RE the bookers now.

You will give us whatever we want, the very second we want it, and if you DON'T give it to us immediately we'll bitch and moan and whine and cry and hijack the shows and turn every other fan away from the WWE if we have to until you finally cave in, and if it ruins the whole show, we don't care as long as we get OUR way." 

Honestly, I don't know if that's fair. Take out the Post-WM show, where fans set out to hijack it as a form of tradition at this point. Where do the crowds basically focus their ire? Roman Reigns.

They're not booing everything and totally wrecking up every segment of every show. However, they do have ideas about who they want the lead babyface to be, and who can blame them? They know that whenever Vince picks that guy, it's a decade-plus with him on top.

That part of the crowd loves their never-say-die babyfaces like Bryan and Ambrose and their slick-wrestling indie favorites like Rollins. They don't want Vince McMahon's '80s babyface stereotype anymore. That is what it is.

So, this is really what it's about. Not "We want Fandango as champ," which I know that you were using as hyperbole, but which is still too facetious to use as an example even though your purpose was hyperbolic. It's simply that the crowd has different ideas about what makes a good lead babyface than Vince does.

Case in point: The only three pure babyfaces to get over completely in front of a WWE-affiliated crowd in the last decade are Daniel Bryan, Sami Zayn, and Bayley. Vince McMahon would never, ever think to actually push any of these flawed, optimistic, never-say-die characters as lead babyfaces because he just doesn't get why people thirty and forty and fifty years younger than them would see them as perfect lead babyfaces. He's pushing Superman when a sizable portion of the audience wants Spiderman. 

Vince can choose to pay lip-service that he listens to the fans or he can actually listen to them and get that the days of Hogan and Cena are over as far as a significant portion of his fans are concerned. 

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Ace said:

To be fair, Roman gets more cheers than boos on the house shows. And he did pop the crowd at WM's finish, despite them booing him the entire match.

 

That was piped in, and they edited the crowd noise the entire match.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've heard about the house shows but why would those crowds be drastically different than a random SD!.. those are still a lot of families and kids etc.. the recent SD!s I've been to Roman is still getting the boos

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I bet the house show cheering/booing has a lot to do with the size of the town and how often the WWE comes there. In smaller towns that may get a WWE show maybe once every 1-2 years, they're prepared to cheer anyone they've seen on TV. At a place that would get even a Smackdown, the fans are a bit more jaded.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, JCM said:

That was piped in, and they edited the crowd noise the entire match.

People who were there say different.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No argument on what the crowd reaction was for RAW. But I thought Roman played it very well. He was awesome. I wonder if we get more of that or it was just a one shot deal because of where they were.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here in the Denver area we get a couple of house shows a year and RAW about twice a year generally and the crowds here are always cheering and booing the "right" people. Last RAW here, Reigns was getting massive cheers. At a house show I was at a year ago Cena got all cheers and no mixed reaction.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/5/2016 at 8:16 PM, grizzlyedwin said:

So what was everyone saying last night about AJ being buried?

Well they are feeding him to Roman Reigns ;)

Look if the idea is to build up AJ Styles for a title shot on PPV, why would you have him job to Jericho and have Jericho kick out of all of Styles' crazy finishers in the same match?  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, TheVileOne said:

Well they are feeding him to Roman Reigns ;)

Look if the idea is to build up AJ Styles for a title shot on PPV, why would you have him job to Jericho and have Jericho kick out of all of Styles' crazy finishers in the same match?  

Kid's gotta pay his dues. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe it was one of those Chumbawamba deals - he gets knocked down, he gets up again.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Cristobal said:

Kid's gotta pay his dues. 

AJ Styles has paid his dues, which is a dumb idea anyway when it comes to wrestling.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, TheVileOne said:

AJ Styles has paid his dues, which is a dumb idea anyway when it comes to wrestling.

 

He hasn't in Vinces eyes which is also dumb.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Johnny Sorrow said:

Here in the Denver area we get a couple of house shows a year and RAW about twice a year generally and the crowds here are always cheering and booing the "right" people. Last RAW here, Reigns was getting massive cheers. At a house show I was at a year ago Cena got all cheers and no mixed reaction.

I can say that I've experienced something similar at MSG of all places. Only a few days after Cena was getting booed out of the building at Barclays on ppv, the crowd was at least 80% pro-Cena and treated the Ryback like he was Hulk Hogan. It's an annoying talking point, but sometimes the house show audiences really are different than the live tv audiences. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think AJ losing at Mania has more to do with Jericho than AJ. Hasn't Jericho said this is his last? Vince probably wanted him going out on a high note after having him job to Fandango once upon a time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think they had to keep Jericho strong because outside of HHH they have no credible heels in the singles division.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/5/2016 at 0:02 AM, Fallacy! said:

Ok DVDVR Universe, you have one of two choices for Roman Reigns-AJ Styles:

A.) Bullet Club finally debuts, as heels, to help AJ but Reigns overcomes the odds and wins.

B.) Reigns cleanly beats AJ in a hard fought back and forth match. They shake hands and hug at the end and AJ gives Roman the "hey smarks, this guy is for real, y'all need to respect him" pointing and thumbs up gestures. 

 

Whats it gonna be?

C.) Reigns beats Styles clean, Code Of Honor, Styles leaves to give Reigns his moment, Karl and Festus run in from the crowd and attack Reigns leading to Ambrose running out for the save.

Tease a little dissension between Reigns and Ambrose before Payback though.  Ambrose asks for a title shot on Raw, Reigns says he couldn't even beat Lesnar at WrestleMania, Ambrose says Reigns has never beaten Lesnar either, Reigns tells Ambrose he's beaten him before though.  Ambrose says he'll be in the back of the line if he needs him but he'll see him at the front soon.  Fist bump.  Still bros.

Then after Payback, Reigns and Ambrose call out Styles for siccing his boys on Reigns since Styles couldn't get the job done.  Styles denies any involvement.  Ambrose and Styles go one on one.  Styles gets shitcanned to the floor, Karl and Festus jump Ambrose, Reigns out for the save.  Styles still denies any involvement.  Next week, Styles and Ambrose again one on one, Reigns at ringside on commentary to keep an eye on things.  Styles gets shitcanned to the floor again, Karl and Festus run out, Reigns gets up for the save but Finn Balor jumps him from behind and blows mist in his eyes.  Then he posts Styles and The Balor Club put the boots to Ambrose to go off the air.

Next week, Balor Club formally introduced.  "My name is Finn Balor.  I'm the NXT Champion.  I'm Triple H's most prized talent signing.  And this is my club.  The Balor Club.  We're already worldwide and now we're taking over WWE.  I'm the real rock 'n rolla of the WWE Universe.  Not that old has been Jericho.  I took out Hideo Itami cause they said he was a big star out of Japan.  What a crock.  Yeah, I'm the one who did that.  I'm the biggest star out of Japan and I'm not even Japanese!  I beat Kevin Owens to win the NXT Championship.  Kevin Owens isn't Balor Club material cause he's fat.  Look at my abs!  Dean Ambrose, yer chainsaw, I sabotaged it!  It should have been me against Brock Lesnar at WrestleMania.  I would've painted me self up as the vilest demon imaginable.  You, not one drop of paint.  And AJ Styles.  You had the nerve to try to steal my club when I left Japan.  You had the nerve to try and call yourself the leader of my club..."

"Hey, I'm not one to gossip, but I gotta tell you, when we were in Japan, AJ would talk real good about you to the press but off camera, he'd pull me aside and say, "Karl, I really hate Finn Balor" and I'd be like "Why, hoot?  He's a good brother." and he'd say, "I think he's one of those new gay guys."

"All those months of hugging Bayley in NXT.  Let me tell you all, her hugs aren't very good.  You know who hugs good?  The big guy here."

"Awww hell yeah, c'mere, hoot."

"Yeah, that right der is a good hug.  Take notes Bayley.  I'm the NXT Champion.  I can hug anybody I want to.  Not like you people here.  I can hug supermodels if I want to!  And when I beat Roman Reigns and become WWE World Heavyweight Champion too.  I'm going to hug two supermodels at the same time cause that's how Balor Club parties!"

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But I thought Tama Tonga and Camacho stayed in New Japan, keeping the Balor Club from getting THEMONSTERMENG or Col. Parker to merge them with the Stud Stable. 

This booking can never succeed in WWE.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎4‎/‎7‎/‎2016 at 3:40 PM, TheVileOne said:

AJ Styles has paid his dues, which is a dumb idea anyway when it comes to wrestling.

 

You don't have a guy come into your organisation and let him go over at THE SHOW. He came out of that feud looking super strong, without actually really damaging Jericho. Sometimes it's like some fans just want their dude to win like every big match they're in, which is not how wrestling has ever worked. I am actually really surprised AJ is getting the push he is, right out of the gate.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, JRV said:

You don't have a guy come into your organisation and let him go over at THE SHOW. He came out of that feud looking super strong, without actually really damaging Jericho. Sometimes it's like some fans just want their dude to win like every big match they're in, which is not how wrestling has ever worked. I am actually really surprised AJ is getting the push he is, right out of the gate.

Why?  And that's bullshit because wrestling has worked that way all the time.  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...