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Sept Wrestling Jibber Jabber Thread

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I cannot understand why they would hotshot him to the main roster like they did. This isn't the era where you sign a guy from the competition and immediately throw him on television, he could have easily sat in developmental and then they do the press of "signing one of Mexico's top lucha guys" and bringing him to television. 

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Because it's Friday and people want to go out and do stuff. There's so many more people who watch the WWE than watch Smackdown ever.

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I cannot understand why they would hotshot him to the main roster like they did. This isn't the era where you sign a guy from the competition and immediately throw him on television, he could have easily sat in developmental and then they do the press of "signing one of Mexico's top lucha guys" and bringing him to television. 

I think they were like... "Alright, you don't want to go to development? Fine you fucking asshole, don't go! Let's see if you can get over wrestling your style, and performing under really shitty blue, and gold lighting." 

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Outside of the shitty lighting I feel more or less that all of Mistico's failure to become something in WWE is on him. He just never really adjusted. For all the talk of WWE failing to give him guys who could play base for him people seem to forget Rey Mysterio and various other high flyers in WWE never had the same amount of problems adjusting.

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Yeah, but some of those guys you're talking about worked previously for the other company from the 90's. And like Mistico, those guys had a lot of trouble adjusting to the american style when they first came in.

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How many of those guys looked as bad as Mistico? How long did it take them to adjust?

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They should have just had Mistico work with either Huncio or Claudio every night.

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The way he came into the WWE is akin to a football player being traded and showing up for the first game without going through training camp. And not knowing English.

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They should have just had Mistico work with either Huncio or Claudio every night.

Well he worked with Primo and Tyson Kidd quite a bit to start off. Then there was the Chavo feud. I think that's a solid group of guys to help you get into the style.

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WWE ropes are higher and looser than the cables they used in WCW. I always think that's overlooked when people talk about guys like Rey changing their style when they came to WWE. The WWE top rope is up round Rey's head. You only have to look at all the botches of people trying springboard stuff to see why so few people bother with it.

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I can't imagine Sin Cara having any desire to re-sign, any more than I can imagine Vince having any interest in re-signing him, so what's next? IIRC he left CMLL on bad terms, would they rehire him just so they could "punish" him?  Would Konnan hire him for AAA and give him a new gimmick?

 

If memory serves me correctly, MistiCara has been backstage at Arena Mexico visiting at times when he was at home injured.  I may be incorrect in that, because I know that Del Rio has been back, and I may have crossed up stories. 

 

As far as "Mistico" returning to Mexico, I would think that AAA would throw a ton of money at him for a lot less dates.  However, Mistico has very influential family in the CMLL office, and a return there would seem like a bigger deal, I think. 

 

CMLL definitely owns the "Mistico" name & gimmick, as they have Mistico II running around now.  However, at the time of the signing there were reports that CMLL also trademarked the "Sin Cara" name in Mexico, which would keep him from using either name south of the border unless in CMLL.  One would think the money angle in a return to Mexico would be MistiCara returning to feud with MistiClone, perhaps alongside former rival (and legit BFF) Averno.  

 

 

 

 

Good point Johnnyj.

 

Konnan always speaks on WWE dropping the ball with Mistico. There should have been a few people brought along with him to WWE that were able to work his style. Instead of having him in the ring with people that have NO CLUE how to work the lucha style.

 

It seems silly for the WWE to bend over backwards to adjust to his style when it's Sin Cara who should have adapted his style to the WWE.  Bringing people who can work a lucha style will only get him so far.

 

 

I kinda agree, at least in the sense that Sin Cara seems to have done very little to make the transition easier on himself.  But..... if your product isn't really suited to the lucha style and you don't have anyone on the roster who knows how to take his offense and make it look good AND bringing in guys who can work the lucha style isn't a priority AND neither you nor he want him to go to developmental and be torn down and retrained from scratch.....

 

.... then, maybe, you don't really need to sign said luchador in the first place?

 

I think Mistico could have done more to help himself integrate into the company style, but it's really head-scratching the way he was handled.  I think he could still have gotten over if he hadn't been so prone to injuries and botches, but it's not a huge surprise to me that he failed.

 

 

Well, I have a firm belief that the folks in WWE are probably like most other Americans in the wrestling biz, and "lucha style" is a stereotype for "can't work".  In my experience, folks that have no interest in lucha think it is just a bunch of flippy bullshit with no psychology, and a bunch of dumb Mexicans working the right.  It is pretty much an accepted fact that WWE had offered Averno a deal to come in as an opponent for Mistico, but that something happened that killed the deal.  But, it wouldn't surprise me if they looked at the roster in development and said "We have Del Rio, Primo Colon, Sicodelico Jr, Epico & Hunico in development... we don't need anyone else to work with Mistico."... not that any of those guys ever worked with Mistico. 

 

 

Didnt Mistico also come into the company with a big head, which is one of the things they always warn people against when they get there?"What you did elsewhere doesnt matter? Who cares you sold out arena mexico or won the Observer Wrestler of the Year?"

 

Also, supposedly Mistico had a tryout w/ WWE a year prior when WWE was in California where he worked w/ Super Crazy, and they offered him a development deal, and Mistico turned it down.  The prevailing thought was that Mistico was making enough headlining for CMLL that he had no interest in a development deal.  So, supposedly a condition when he actually signed was that he got a deal without a development clause... meaning they paid him his full pay even if he was booked in development.  That seems like something that would piss off the vets, a a violation of an unwritten rule, no?

 

I can see a guy like JBL or whomever just burying the guy in the lockerroom for this kinda "primadonna" stuff, and Mistico getting the "rep" as having an attitude before he even worked his first match. 

 

I cannot understand why they would hotshot him to the main roster like they did. This isn't the era where you sign a guy from the competition and immediately throw him on television, he could have easily sat in developmental and then they do the press of "signing one of Mexico's top lucha guys" and bringing him to television. 

 

Well, if the rumor was true that Mistico wanted no part of taking the paycut to go to development, the office would probably balk at paying a guy like he was on the roster, if he wasn't actually on the roster. If HHH was the guy really high on Mistico, as has been said, I can totally see him signing Mistico to the full deal, and then Vince deciding to bury the kid to make an example for everyone else. 

 

Outside of the shitty lighting I feel more or less that all of Mistico's failure to become something in WWE is on him. He just never really adjusted. For all the talk of WWE failing to give him guys who could play base for him people seem to forget Rey Mysterio and various other high flyers in WWE never had the same amount of problems adjusting.

 

This is a bad argument IMHO, because it wasn't like Rey Jr. was working strictly lucha shows his entire career, and then popped up in WWE one day and started having great matches with Renee Dupree.  Rey Jr built his name by working Juvi & Psicosis all over Mexico & Japan, before working almost exclusively with those guys in ECW too.  Then Rey branched out a bit and worked some tags, before jumping to WCW and working almost exclusively (at first) with the internationally experienced Dean Malenko... before working again with Juvi & Psicosis.  In a way, the first "luchador" to make the transition from lucha to US style was Konnan, as he kinda came into ECW with a lot of fanfare, but mixed or poor results.  Then Konnan made the jump to WCW and got the big push to the US title as the "Mexican Heavyweight Champion" before getting lost in the Dungeon of Doom.  At that point, WCW started bringing in more and more luchadors to work with Rey/Juvi/Psic (booked thru Konnan's Promo Azteca, and familiar with those guys), and started mixing in some of the non-lucha cruiserweights, like Malenko, Chavo Jr, Jericho, Mr. JL, Kidman, Alex Wright, etc. 

 

WWE kinda had the right idea to bring in Mistico's top rival to make Sin Cara look as good as possible, but when they didn't pull the trigger on Averno, the whole Sin Cara experiment was doomed to fail. 

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WWE ropes are higher and looser than the cables they used in WCW. I always think that's overlooked when people talk about guys like Rey changing their style when they came to WWE. The WWE top rope is up round Rey's head. You only have to look at all the botches of people trying springboard stuff to see why so few people bother with it.

 

I've been in both rings, and this is 100% true.  I had been in hundreds of indy rings of various quality, but when I worked in an old WCW ring I was blown away by how short the ropes were, and it threw me off just running ropes and stuff.

 

Also, WCW rings (and from what I see on television, most lucha rings) have cable ropes - where the rope is a steel cable run thru a garden-hose type of cover.  WWE rings use a regular rope with a latex/acrylic type of coating.  The difference in tension between the two is immense.  Cables are much tighter, and have a spring-like quality, while ropes have a lot more elasticity and "wobble" more. 

 

Another difference is that WWE rings are 20x20... and most other rings are not.  WCW rings were 18x18, I believe ECW were 16x16.  Most indy rings are 16x16... although I have worked in 14x14 many times, as well as some rings that had ridiculously tall/short aprons.

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Has anyone seen the rest of the New Blackjacks AJPW run in '97?  The only one I've seen is the one against Kobashi & Ace that's online. 

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WWE ropes are higher and looser than the cables they used in WCW. I always think that's overlooked when people talk about guys like Rey changing their style when they came to WWE. The WWE top rope is up round Rey's head. You only have to look at all the botches of people trying springboard stuff to see why so few people bother with it.

 I've been in both rings, and this is 100% true.  I had been in hundreds of indy rings of various quality, but when I worked in an old WCW ring I was blown away by how short the ropes were, and it threw me off just running ropes and stuff. Also, WCW rings (and from what I see on television, most lucha rings) have cable ropes - where the rope is a steel cable run thru a garden-hose type of cover.  WWE rings use a regular rope with a latex/acrylic type of coating.  The difference in tension between the two is immense.  Cables are much tighter, and have a spring-like quality, while ropes have a lot more elasticity and "wobble" more.  Another difference is that WWE rings are 20x20... and most other rings are not.  WCW rings were 18x18, I believe ECW were 16x16.  Most indy rings are 16x16... although I have worked in 14x14 many times, as well as some rings that had ridiculously tall/short aprons.
Have you ever worked in a six-sided ring?

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Nikita, thanks for replying to my post. 

 

Glad someone did.

 

*harrumph*

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Is Ultimo's WWE run the most disappointing? He just couldn't catch a break

All of windham's singles runs? Widowmaker, stalker, nwa stable?Arguably the tag title run with captain mike was aborted too.

 

 

I remember back in 1996 going to the In Your House: Buried Alive PPV in Indianapolis.  One of the dark matches was The Stalker vs Justin Hawk Bradshaw.  As a long time Barry Windham fan, it was utterly depressing to see him come out not even in the gimmick he had been doing in vignettes.....but rather, he was wearing a navy blue WWF T shirt, bright orange camouflage pants, and tennis shoes.  He proceeded to sleepwalk through/phone in a bad match, then basically walk to the back looking bored.  

 

Interestingly enough, another dark match was young Triple H vs Steve Austin.  Then after the show in the parking garage, I saw them leaving in a car together.  Now, I was 21 years old and fully understood wrestling wasn't real of course.......but I remember finding it odd that they didn't even attempt to not be seen together.  I also found it odd that so many of the wrestlers were parked in the garage.  I assumed they would have had a more private parking area. This may have caused frustration which led to Vader literally swerving towards fans while already driving too fast through a garage. 

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Oh god, that slo-mo video made me realize that Zayn bears a striking facial resemblance to *shudder* Dustin Diamond. 

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WWE ropes are higher and looser than the cables they used in WCW. I always think that's overlooked when people talk about guys like Rey changing their style when they came to WWE. The WWE top rope is up round Rey's head. You only have to look at all the botches of people trying springboard stuff to see why so few people bother with it.

 

I've been in both rings, and this is 100% true.  I had been in hundreds of indy rings of various quality, but when I worked in an old WCW ring I was blown away by how short the ropes were, and it threw me off just running ropes and stuff.

 

Also, WCW rings (and from what I see on television, most lucha rings) have cable ropes - where the rope is a steel cable run thru a garden-hose type of cover.  WWE rings use a regular rope with a latex/acrylic type of coating.  The difference in tension between the two is immense.  Cables are much tighter, and have a spring-like quality, while ropes have a lot more elasticity and "wobble" more. 

 

Another difference is that WWE rings are 20x20... and most other rings are not.  WCW rings were 18x18, I believe ECW were 16x16.  Most indy rings are 16x16... although I have worked in 14x14 many times, as well as some rings that had ridiculously tall/short aprons.

 

 

All of this is why when WWE gave a WCW ring to UPW, they passed it onto the guys they regularly rented rings from. It was a WWE-style ring or nothing for 'em.

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Have you ever worked in a six-sided ring?

 

 

Nope. 

 

Oddly enough, I wrestled for over a decade and never worked in a cage, either. 

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I still maintain TNA should have kept the six sided ring.

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I still maintain TNA should have kept the six sided ring.

 

Yeah well, that just wasn't working out...BROTHER.

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I still remember Monty Brown's first match in WWECW, when he went for the set-up on the POOOUUUNCE~! he had to correct his approach or else he'd have gone into the turnbuckle.

Huh, speaking of disappointing runs ...

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WWE ropes are higher and looser than the cables they used in WCW. I always think that's overlooked when people talk about guys like Rey changing their style when they came to WWE. The WWE top rope is up round Rey's head. You only have to look at all the botches of people trying springboard stuff to see why so few people bother with it.

 

I've been in both rings, and this is 100% true.  I had been in hundreds of indy rings of various quality, but when I worked in an old WCW ring I was blown away by how short the ropes were, and it threw me off just running ropes and stuff.

 

Also, WCW rings (and from what I see on television, most lucha rings) have cable ropes - where the rope is a steel cable run thru a garden-hose type of cover.  WWE rings use a regular rope with a latex/acrylic type of coating.  The difference in tension between the two is immense.  Cables are much tighter, and have a spring-like quality, while ropes have a lot more elasticity and "wobble" more. 

 

Another difference is that WWE rings are 20x20... and most other rings are not.  WCW rings were 18x18, I believe ECW were 16x16.  Most indy rings are 16x16... although I have worked in 14x14 many times, as well as some rings that had ridiculously tall/short aprons.

 

I wasn't sure about the rings in CMLL etc, but figured they would also be cables. Cheers for the insight, it's really interesting. People bitch about WWE toning down wrestlers styles but a lot of it seems to be practically based around a) the ring, b ) the number of shows they work and c) the size of a lot of the roster. If Jack Swagger is the US Champ but you want Sin Cara to take it from him, you're going to run into problems if the Spanish Fly is his finisher. Just seeing those gifs of the dives on Smackdown it's crazy how much air you have to get to clear the top rope.

 

Does anyone know when Hunico is coming back anyway? I love that guy. I've been wondering if the recent push of the Uso's is down to The Shield's position and Reigns being basically family with them. It seems like they get a lot of leeway to do nutty stuff on a regular basis (there's always been one guy in the WWE who seems to be given free reign to take crazy bumps all the time - Foley, Jeff Hardy - at the moment it's Seth Rollins). Hope when Camacho and Hunico come back they get a decent run too.

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I think Sin Cara got worse the more he tried to adapt. He should have stuck to his own style and made guys adapt to him. 

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