Jump to content
DVDVR Message Board
Sign in to follow this  
Death From Above

NHL Offseason Part 2

Recommended Posts

Also, the real reason the Oilers got terrible post-Gretzky and Messier was they sucked at the draft. Starting from the late 80's on, this is what we did with our first rounders:

 

87: Peter Soberlak, LW. 0 NHL games

88: Francois Leroux, D. 249 NHL games, 11 of them for Edmonton

89: Jason Soules, D. 0 NHL games

90: Scott Allison, C. 0 NHL games

91: Martin Rucinsky, LW. 971 NHL games, 612 points. Played 2 total games for the Edmonton Oilers. Traded for spare parts.

92: Joe Hulbig, LW. 55 NHL games, 8 career points.

93: Jason Arnott, C. The trend breaker. Over 1200 games and over 900 points. Really good player. Won a Stanley Cup with New Jersey in 2000.

93 part 2: Nick Stajduhar, D. 2 NHL games.

94: Jason Bonsignore, C. 79 NHL games.

94 part 2: Some guy named Ryan Smyth who played over 1100 games and had over 800 points.

95: Steve Kelly, LW. 149 NHL games. 21 career points.

96: Boyd Devereaux: 627 NHL games, but only 117 points. Fringe player at best.

96 part 2: Mattieu Descoteaux, D. 5 NHL games.

97: Michel Riesen, RW. 12 NHL games.

98: Michael Henrich, RW. 0 NHL games.

99: Jani Rita, LW. 66 NHL games.

00: Alexei Mikhnov, LW. 2 NHL games.

 

I mean for fuck's sake. That is an utterly terrible record even if you are throwing darts at a board as a scouting system. After that it starts to turn around (Hemsky, Dubnyk, Gagner etc) but what an abysmal track record there. Really only 2 good players you got anything out of in Arnott and Smyth out of 17 first round picks.

 

One of the things about other Oilers fans that pisses me off is this myth that Peter Pocklington singlehandedly ruined the team. He sure did his share, but goddamn that is a pretty rancid record at the business end of the draft.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah that's a horrific run.  The Canucks have had some poor drafting runs but never that consistently bad.  Every now and then they'd get one right.

 

Penguins 93 to 2000 is pretty bad too.

93: Stefan Bergkvist. 7 NHL games.

94: Chris Wells.  195 NHL games (really?). 9 goals.

95: Alexei Morozov. 451 NHL games but basically had 2 good NHL seasons before he left.

96: Craig Hillier. Goalie.  No NHL games.  Finished up his career playing with the Corpus Christi Rayz.

97: Robert Dome.  53 NHL games. 7 goals.  Picked out of the IHL.  This was the weird time when guys would come over and play for the Detroit Vipers and Las Vegas Thunder and shit.

98: Milan Kraft. 207 NHL games, 82 points.  Had one good season points wise on the Morozov Pens team pre-lockout that tanked.  He still plays in the Czech league.

99: Konstantin Koltsov.  144 NHL games.  38 points.  Again the only season he put up anything numbers wise was 03-04.  He's in the KHL.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Jets seemed to pick well one year and then have a complete write off the next.

 

1995 Shane Doan, which is about as much as a slam dunk pick you can make, especially since he's better than the 6 guys who went ahead of him. No one else picked did much of anything, Brad Isbister managed to hang around for a few years.

 

1994 No first rounder, Deron Quint went in the second. Ugh...no one else played more than 34 games in the league. This was Mike Smith's last year, so I'm going to track how many Russians were taken during his tenure. He had a bit of a hard on for them. Only one this year.

 

1993 Mats Lindgren. Didn't even play for the Jets. Only drafted player that had any sort of career was Michal Grosek, which is just sad. 5 Russians taken

 

1992 Sergei Bautin...the most Mike Smithiest of Mike Smith picks. Boris Mironov in the 2nd had a better career. Pick of the draft was Khabibulin in the 9th. NINE Russians picked. They also picked a guy named Teemu Numminen, how the fuck did he not become the biggest star Winnipeg has ever seen?

 

1991 Aaron Ward...well, I guess he had a long career? Four Russians, including the Immortal Igor Ulanov, who was actually the best player they picked if Wardo ain't your thing.

 

1990 Keith Tkachuk. Slam dunk. Only two Russians, one of whom was Alexei Zhamnov who never became what he should have, but 700 points in 800 games is nothing to be ashamed of.

 

1989 Stu Barnes...which is just wow. The most amazing thing is that he played over 1100 games, which shit, I had no idea. Kris Draper in the 3rd was the best pick (only good pick). Too bad they traded him for ONE FUCKING DOLLAR! A DOLLAR! FOR REAL! I HATE MY TEAM AND LOVE THEM. Two Russians picked and Disco Dan Bylsma in the 6th.

 

1988 Teemu Motherfucking Selanne! Mike Smith's first draft saw one Russian taken. No one else of consequence was taken, although I swear that Stephane Beauregard had a longer career than he actually did.

 

1987 Bryan Marchment. Great pick if you hate you opponent's knees. No one else played more than a dozen games.

 

1986 Pat Elynuik. Solid pick. Teppo Numminen in the 2nd. Solidest pick.

 

1985 Ryan Stewart played 3 games. Fredrick Olausson in the 4th was the only player who panned out. Although childhood favourite The Bandit Daniel Bethiaume went in the 3rd.

 

1984 No first rounder, Peter Douris in the 2nd. Woof, sadly he was the best player taken.

 

1983 Andrew McBain. Two 30 goal years, but turned to shit after. Bob Essensa in the 4th was the best pick.

 

1982 Jim Kyte, 600 games, not bad for a deaf guy. Dave Ellett had a nice career for a 3rd rounder.

 

1981 Dale Hawerchuk, the only time the Jets have ever drafted #1. There was no other choice. Scott Arniel in the 2nd was the only other player who stuck around.

 

1980 Dave Babych. Good pick, too bad they traded him for a bag of beans.

 

1979 Jimmy Mann. People are still mad about this. It's never a good idea to draft a goon in the 1st round. 2nd round worked out better with Dave Christian, the money pack was in the 5th: Oh Captain, My Captain Thomas Steen, the man who was Daniel Alfredsson before Daniel Alfredsson was Daniel Alfredsson.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The best players the Blues drafted from 1989 to 2002 reads as follows

Jay McClement

Barrett Jackman

Ladislov Nagy

Marty Reasoner

Jochen Hecht

Michael Handzus

Jamal Mayers

Mike Grier

Igor Korolev

Ian Lapierre

Steve Staois

Craig Johnson

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Before the board crashed I listed a lot of the Panthers 1st round picks during their decade of wasting them. It's too painful and irritating to go through and do it again but needless to say it's why Florida is in the midst of a rebuild of a rebuild of a rebuild of a rebuild.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's more like one long construction project where they keep firing the contractor.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also, the real reason the Oilers got terrible post-Gretzky and Messier was they sucked at the draft. Starting from the late 80's on, this is what we did with our first rounders:

 

87: Peter Soberlak, LW. 0 NHL games

88: Francois Leroux, D. 249 NHL games, 11 of them for Edmonton

89: Jason Soules, D. 0 NHL games

90: Scott Allison, C. 0 NHL games

91: Martin Rucinsky, LW. 971 NHL games, 612 points. Played 2 total games for the Edmonton Oilers. Traded for spare parts.

92: Joe Hulbig, LW. 55 NHL games, 8 career points.

93: Jason Arnott, C. The trend breaker. Over 1200 games and over 900 points. Really good player. Won a Stanley Cup with New Jersey in 2000.

93 part 2: Nick Stajduhar, D. 2 NHL games.

94: Jason Bonsignore, C. 79 NHL games.

94 part 2: Some guy named Ryan Smyth who played over 1100 games and had over 800 points.

95: Steve Kelly, LW. 149 NHL games. 21 career points.

96: Boyd Devereaux: 627 NHL games, but only 117 points. Fringe player at best.

96 part 2: Mattieu Descoteaux, D. 5 NHL games.

97: Michel Riesen, RW. 12 NHL games.

98: Michael Henrich, RW. 0 NHL games.

99: Jani Rita, LW. 66 NHL games.

00: Alexei Mikhnov, LW. 2 NHL games.

 

I mean for fuck's sake. That is an utterly terrible record even if you are throwing darts at a board as a scouting system. After that it starts to turn around (Hemsky, Dubnyk, Gagner etc) but what an abysmal track record there. Really only 2 good players you got anything out of in Arnott and Smyth out of 17 first round picks.

 

One of the things about other Oilers fans that pisses me off is this myth that Peter Pocklington singlehandedly ruined the team. He sure did his share, but goddamn that is a pretty rancid record at the business end of the draft.

 

My understanding of the Oilers scouting at that time was that their head scout basically spent the entire year living in Mexico. God, that draft record is awful. You could also add the likes of Marc-Antoine Poulliot, Jesse Niinimaki, and the legendary Rob Schremp.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Everyone else is doing it, so I thought I'd throw out the Flames first round drafting record from the last 20 years (excluding the most recent few, which cannot really be judged yet). It perfectly illustrates why the team stinks now. I'd say it "tops" the Oilers record. At least they got Arnott and Smyth…

 

1993 - Jesper Mattsson - 0 GP.

1994 - Chris Dingman - 72 GP (for the Flames). Before my time, but a goon, as far as I can tell. Played 385 games, only scored 34 points. Won two cups, though. Only guy on this list who won a cup, I think.

1995 - Denis Gauthier - 554 game career. A decent pick. Notable for being the newphew of Jacques Rougeau (!!!)

1996 - Derek Morris - 343 GP, 163 points (for the Flames). 1000+ GP, 407 points (career). Still an active player. A pretty good pick.

 

Then things get bad...

 

1997 - Daniel Tkaczuk - sixth overall pick - 19 GP, 11 points.

1998 - Rico Fata - sixth overall pick - 27 GP, 1 point (for the Flames). 230 GP, 63 points (career).

1999 - Oleg Saprykin – 187 GP, 76 points (for the Flames). 325 GP (career). Left for Russia.

2000 - Brent Krahn - ninth overall pick - 1 GP (for Dallas). Walked as a UFA

2001 - Chuck Kobasew - 210 GP, 71 points (for the Flames). 568 GP, 208 points (career to date). Still active. Decent pick.

2002 - Eric Nystrom - tenth overall pick - 204 GP, 39 points (for the Flames). 408 GP, 83 points (career to date). Walked as a UFA. Still active.

2003 - Dion Phaneuf - 378 GP, 228 points (for the Flames). A rare good pick, though it was hard to miss in the 2003 draft. Too bad they traded him for a (basically) negative return when Daryl Sutter decided to shoot the organization in the kneecaps on his way out.

 

And then things get really bad...

2004 - Kris Chuko - 2 GP, no longer in the Flames system.

2005 - Matt Pelech - 7 GP, no longer in the Flames system.

2006 - Leland Irving - 13 GP, no longer in the Flames system.

2007 - Mikael Backlund - 170 GP, 62 points, won't be a superstar, but is becoming a very solid player for the Flames. Another rare good pick.

2008 - Greg Nemisz - 15 GP, one year away from getting cut.

2009 - Tim Erixon - 0 GP for the Flames, as he refused to sign, resulting in an 11th hour trade for Roman Horak (fifth rounder) and 2 second round picks. The return might end up being okay, but the whole situation was an embarrassment for the Flames organization

2010 - No first (or second) round pick.

 

I'll also add that the Flames only drafted in the second round ONCE from 2004-2010 (they picked Mitch Wahl in 2008, never played a game for the Flames, no longer in the system).

 

 

So there you have it. Almost 20 years of drafting, and no elite players out of the first round. The closest thing (Phaneuf) they ended up trading away for a bunch of spare parts and the right to pay Matt Stajan too much money. Plenty of duds that never played, on the other hand, and even the guys that did end up making NHL careers for themselves weren't exactly world-beaters or the type of high-level players you expect from the first round. And none of them stuck around the Flames for more than a few years.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep, Oilers were bad but the Flames were even worse at drafting through the '90s and 00's. Ottawa and San Jose also brutal. It was a bad decade to build through the draft, that's for sure. The percentage of players who made it as NHLers didn't drop that much (but then there were more teams for them to make it on), but little high end talent.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ron Hack-all, as we called him in the 80s, leaves the Kings to return to Philly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It was a gut feeling.  A gut feeling that Paul Holmgren isn't long for this NHL GM world.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also, the real reason the Oilers got terrible post-Gretzky and Messier was they sucked at the draft. Starting from the late 80's on, this is what we did with our first rounders:

 

I mean for fuck's sake. That is an utterly terrible record even if you are throwing darts at a board as a scouting system. After that it starts to turn around (Hemsky, Dubnyk, Gagner etc) but what an abysmal track record there. Really only 2 good players you got anything out of in Arnott and Smyth out of 17 first round picks.

As Critts said, Barry Fraser actually spent the last few years as Head Scout commuting from a place in Mexico City.  He parlayed some very excellent early scouting into a long-time career in which he maybe didn't do a whole lot.  For all the shit Oilers fans give Kevin Lowe, he did have the guts to let go Fraser in 2000 which was...what?...6-10 years overdue.

 

 

 

One of the things about other Oilers fans that pisses me off is this myth that Peter Pocklington singlehandedly ruined the team. He sure did his share, but goddamn that is a pretty rancid record at the business end of the draft.

 

He still pretty much did ruin the team.  For all the weak 1st rounders, the Oilers still managed to turn up serviceable to good players in the later rounds (Kirk Maltby, David Vyborny, Miroslav Satan, George Laraque, Tom Poti, Fernando Pisani, Jason Chimera, Shawn Horcoff, and Mike Comrie were  all taken outside the first round and all played more than 450 games each, granted many of them made their marks outside Edmonton, but they were assets one way or the other).  And Glen Sather was still a wizard at getting young assets in trades (Doug Weight, Anson Carter, etc.), it's reasonable to believe that if the Oilers had kept the core of Gretzky, Messier, Kurri, Lowe, and Fuhr intact (Gretzky played 11 more seasons after leaving Edmonton, Messier 13, Kurri 8, Lowe 6 (two of them back in Edmonton), Fuhr 9), and supplanted it with young players returned in deals for less important players like Tikkanen, Simpson, Anderson and even Fuhr as they priced themselves out of the market, the Oilers could have taken a run at 3-4 more Cups (Gretzky almost got one himself, Messier did).  

 

The fact is Pocklington's failing meat business and lack of funds led to the dismantling of the team.  Another owner with deeper pockets could've kept that core intact for at least a few more years, as Gretzky didn't really want to go, he was ticked off at the trade talk that sent him out, and the rest of the players jumped ship after he did.  

 

That said, as bad as Pocklington is remembered in Edmonton, imagine what it would be like if he'd had his way in the 80s and made that deal with Ballard to send the entire Oilers team to Toronto in return for theirs.  I don't think the Oilers would still be in Edmonton if that had happened.  Watching the Leafs roll to repeated Stanley Cups with the Oilers players would've soured the fans completely on the team and Pocklington and they would've quietly moved sometime in the 90s, I think.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh, Pocklington is awful and sort of a half notch above used car salesman. Just saying he wasn't the only thing that went askew there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Then things get bad...

 

1997 - Daniel Tkaczuk - sixth overall pick - 19 GP, 11 points.

1998 - Rico Fata - sixth overall pick - 27 GP, 1 point (for the Flames). 230 GP, 63 points (career).

1999 - Oleg Saprykin – 187 GP, 76 points (for the Flames). 325 GP (career). Left for Russia.

2000 - Brent Krahn - ninth overall pick - 1 GP (for Dallas). Walked as a UFA

The Flames were one of my favorite teams during this time period, and man, all four of those names just bring back such a sour taste in my mouth. I remember believing each one of them was going to be a serious piece for their franchise. Egg on my face.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At least Krahn walking as a UFA worked out. He got his 1 NHL game. So that sure showed Calgary.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's honestly taken me about this long to get over the Pronger mess.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Missing Hasek trashing Buffalo after going to Detroit, although he did turn face again recently.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Missing Hasek trashing Buffalo after going to Detroit, although he did turn face again recently.

...and his entire stint in Ottawa, which was just completely weird. What is it about the Senators that drives people insane?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The NHL is going to Sochi!  Big surprise!

 

And we've got division names: Pacific, Central, Atlantic and Metropolitan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Metropolitan? "Flortheast" has such a nicer ring to it.

I

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...