[MOVIE] FEBRUARY 2016 DISCUSSION

[odessasteps]

Reading through the last page I'm curious what leads some of you to actively watch soul crushingly, depressing movies? Are you just interested in good films? Interested in what philosophies they go over? Generally I watch to be entertained so I tend to avoid just about anything that will lead to depression (i.e. most of films mentioned on the last page).

I saw a lot of those kind of pictures in film classes, so not much choice on the matter. Or when i was a film critic, again no choice.

Nowadays, i try to avoid seeing the kind of film i know would upset me.

[JLowe]

Reading through the last page I'm curious what leads some of you to actively watch soul crushingly, depressing movies? Are you just interested in good films? Interested in what philosophies they go over? Generally I watch to be entertained so I tend to avoid just about anything that will lead to depression (i.e. most of films mentioned on the last page).

Well, there's nothing wrong with feeling sad sometimes. And Grave of the Fireflies is important subject matter and a really valuable perspective on a major world event.

[Roman]

I didn't think Sicario was depressing. It was a great movie, but not depressing. For depressing movies, my go-to pick remains Lilja 4-Ever. When I first watched that, all alone in the dark and with a bottle of liquor, I was glad I didn't have a gun with me when the credits rolled.

[J.T.]

 

 

 

The doom and gloom of The Big Short was counteracted by the movie having a rapid pace, explaining absolutely nothing, and taking for granted that I watch the news and keep up with world events.  

 

It felt good for a movie to assume that I was a relatively intelligent and well informed person for once.

 

I don't think it had as many moving parts as Too Big to Fail. You have to break out notebook paper for that shit.

 

I had to take a shower after watching Inside Job.

 

Being a US DoD tech with a TS clearance, I felt kinda dirty after watching Citizenfour, but there is a right way and a wrong way to blow the whistle.

 

Good to see you're being open minded about this.... 

 

I am a Jeffersonian at heart.  If you sacrifice freedom for security, you don't deserve either and NSA snooping is what happens when people just hand over their civil liberties or sit quietly while they are taken away.

 

That being said as I mentioned before, there is a right way and a wrong way to blow the whistle.  By snitching on the NSA, he probably advanced the intel collecting capabilities of other nations by light years. The Russians are showing their appreciation for his info right at this very minute.

 

And let's not be naïve..  Our allies spy on us just as we spy on them.  NSA just had the bad luck to get caught doing it after being ratted out.  Not everyone that works in a foreign embassy in DC is a diplomat.

[Lacelle]

Rocky IV is montage the movie, III smokes it 8 ways to Wednesday

[Elsalvajeloco]

 

 

 

 

The doom and gloom of The Big Short was counteracted by the movie having a rapid pace, explaining absolutely nothing, and taking for granted that I watch the news and keep up with world events.  

 

It felt good for a movie to assume that I was a relatively intelligent and well informed person for once.

 

I don't think it had as many moving parts as Too Big to Fail. You have to break out notebook paper for that shit.

 

I had to take a shower after watching Inside Job.

 

Being a US DoD tech with a TS clearance, I felt kinda dirty after watching Citizenfour, but there is a right way and a wrong way to blow the whistle.

 

Good to see you're being open minded about this.... 

 

That being said as I mentioned before, there is a right way and a wrong way to blow the whistle.  By snitching on the NSA, he probably advanced the intel collecting capabilities of other nations by light years. The Russians are showing their appreciation for his info right at this very minute.

 

 

That's like saying there is a right way to piss people off and a wrong way to piss people off. All that defeats the purpose of being a whistleblower in the first place.

[J.T.]

Clubber Lang was the first great 80's movie villain.  Second in the decade only to Biff Tannen or Freddy Krueger.

[J.T.]

That's like saying there is a right way to piss people off and a wrong way to piss people off. All that defeats the purpose of being a whistleblower in the first place.

 

There is a right way and a wrong way to piss people off.  

 

You can either say or do something that makes someone angry and yet they can get over it and still be friends with you, or you make someone angry in a way that invites an immediate assbeating.

 

You can be a whistleblower and not fuck over national security

[Elsalvajeloco]

 

 

 

 

 

 

The doom and gloom of The Big Short was counteracted by the movie having a rapid pace, explaining absolutely nothing, and taking for granted that I watch the news and keep up with world events.  

 

It felt good for a movie to assume that I was a relatively intelligent and well informed person for once.

 

I don't think it had as many moving parts as Too Big to Fail. You have to break out notebook paper for that shit.

 

I had to take a shower after watching Inside Job.

 

Being a US DoD tech with a TS clearance, I felt kinda dirty after watching Citizenfour, but there is a right way and a wrong way to blow the whistle.

 

Good to see you're being open minded about this.... 

 

That being said as I mentioned before, there is a right way and a wrong way to blow the whistle.  By snitching on the NSA, he probably advanced the intel collecting capabilities of other nations by light years. The Russians are showing their appreciation for his info right at this very minute.

 

 

That's like saying there is a right way to piss people off and a wrong way to piss people off. All that defeats the purpose of being a whistleblower in the first place.

 

There is a right way and a wrong way to piss people off.  

 

You can either say or do something that makes someone angry and yet they can get over it and still be friends with you, or you make someone angry in a way that invites an immediate assbeating.

 

You can be a whistleblower and not fuck over national security.

 

 

But that's pretending there are those are two extremes exist when in actuality each way invites an assbeating. It's like Carlo in the Godfather admitting he had something to do with Vito getting shot. You're fucked either way.

 

Ratting out on someone to the teacher is massively different than doing it on cops. Part of national security includes fucking us over to invade our privacy. So in turn, fucking them over is not exactly this thing you cannot do. This is not some mutual relationship.

[J.T.]

But that's pretending there are those are two extremes exist when in actuality each way invites an assbeating. It's like Carlo in the Godfather admitting he had something to do with Vito getting shot. You're fucked either way.

 

Or you can be totally fucked one way and not so fucked the other.  You can leak your story to the media and blow the whistle and not also leak stolen Classified documents whose theft will land you in prison.

 

You can be a whistleblower and not be a criminal. 

 

Ratting out on someone to the teacher is massively different than doing it on cops. Part of national security includes fucking us over to invade our privacy. So in turn, fucking them over is not exactly this thing you cannot do. This is not some mutual relationship.

 

But we're not talking about cops.   We're talking about a government program that had obviously gone rogue and needed to be reeled in.  Who is to say what was the right or wrong way to bring attention to this, but theft of classified documents is still theft.  Good Samaritans sadly go to jail every day and hopefully are one day exonerated.  I honestly hope that one day Snowden can come home and not expect to be put behind bars when he arrives.

 

And the US Constitution contains no expressed right to privacy, bro.  The First, Third, Fifth, Ninth, and Fourteenth Amendments protect civil liberty against government coercion and the Supreme Court has usually interpreted those collected Amendments as a contract between government and citizens to respect privacy.

 

That being said and back on topic, Citizenfour > Snowden, probably.  Stone will give Eric the unreal Jesus treatment just shy of CGI stigmata bleeding as he uploads the documents to the cloud and pushes them to The Guardian.

[Elsalvajeloco]

 

But that's pretending there are those are two extremes exist when in actuality each way invites an assbeating. It's like Carlo in the Godfather admitting he had something to do with Vito getting shot. You're fucked either way.

 

Or you can be totally fucked one way and not so fucked the other.  You can leak your story to the media and blow the whistle and not also leak stolen Classified documents whose theft will land you in prison.

 

You can be a whistleblower and not be a criminal. 

 

Ratting out on someone to the teacher is massively different than doing it on cops. Part of national security includes fucking us over to invade our privacy. So in turn, fucking them over is not exactly this thing you cannot do. This is not some mutual relationship.

 

But we're not talking about cops.   We're talking about a government program that had obviously gone rogue.  Why leak those documents to the press and announce to everyone that your information is stolen?

 

The US Constitution contains no expressed right to privacy, bro.  The First, Third, Fifth, Ninth, and Fourteenth Amendments bolster civil liberty against government coercion and the Supreme Court has usually interpreted those collected Amendments as a contract between government and citizens to respect privacy.

 

 

Our government is a power structure in the same way police are. We're talking the same people who are responsible for surveillance of (many innocent) African-Americans for criminal activities. If they say you're a criminal, then you're criminal and we have to accept that. They're not like you're girlfriend who gets kinda mad when you pee on the side of the toilet. You're fucked every way.

 

So this is how I would be a whistle blower shit doesn't work. That's double talk.

[J.T.]

So this is how I would be a whistle blower shit doesn't work. That's double talk.

 

I've never had a reason to blow the whistle in my organization so who is to say how shit will or won't work?

 

When or if I do, we'll see what happens.

 

Our government is a power structure in the same way police are. We're talking the same people who are responsible for surveillance of (many innocent) African-Americans for criminal activities.

 

Okay, so no Black person under surveillance is an actual criminal that needs to go to jail.  Gotcha.

[odessasteps]

If you take the decade as a whole and include various movies, William Atherton deserves a mention for best 80s Heel.

[Elsalvajeloco]

 

So this is how I would be a whistle blower shit doesn't work. That's double talk.

 

I've never had a reason to blow the whistle in my organization so who is to say how shit will or won't work?

 

When or if I do, we'll see what happens.

 

Our government is a power structure in the same way police are. We're talking the same people who are responsible for surveillance of (many innocent) African-Americans for criminal activities.

 

Okay, so no Black person under surveillance is an actual criminal that needs to go to jail.  Gotcha.

 

 

Not when it's malicious against people who clearly are not criminals or pursuing criminal activities. For example, my family doctor, a Caucasian doctor named Walter Rose was under surveillance for being one of the few white physicians treating poor, African-American families (like mine) in Sunflower County (MS) basically for free. The stuff from these documents, only made public maybe more than a decade or so, is fucking shocking. So if they're willing to go incredible lengths on white people, imagine what they were (and probably still are) doing to us. There are a lot of black people (and white people TBH) who've mysteriously ended up dead.

 

Anyway, on the whistle blowing tip, we're arguing circumstances and the U.S. government. So if we had to simplify it a bit, it's one word against the word of a power structure. So if Edward Snowden testifies and says (according to a Washington Post article from 2014) that I tried to raise concerns internally ten times before going forward and pursing other means, neither of us can turn around and say this is how *I* would do it. This goes especially for someone who feels or sees that others are being unfairly treated for being known whistleblowers. So if the Obama administration comes out and said, "Well, we think he had other means if those particular channels did not work out", then it instantly becomes his word versus their word. In the history of time, how does that not end with Edward Snowden being maligned? It's an unwinnable war, especially if we know the U.S. government isn't going to implicate themselves as being part of any wrongdoing and/or hold themselves truly accountable.

[nate]

So regarding machine gun tittlies:

Machine Girl > Machete Kills ?

[Craig H]

Regarding intentionally watching sad movies, I honestly don't know. Sometimes I get into a mindset of seeing just how far down the rabbit hole goes, and I watch Threads or When the Wind Blows and then get so fucking spoked I PM JT asking if nukes are about to start flying. In other cases, I'm genuinely interested in watching the total breakdown of the human condition, until the breakdown starts happening, and then I realized I made a mistake. I'm already half way through the movie, so I just finish it. This would be the Requiem for a Dream example.

Other times, I don't even know going in I'm going to see something ultra depressing, like the Mist or Blue Valentine. I will never rewatch those again and actively tell couples I know to never watch Blue Valentine.

So, it's a mix of reasons and whether or not they make sense of are rational I can't always explain.

[piranesi]

I'm in full denial mode.  At some point I decided that my confrontation with The Real wasn't going to change it or deflect it, and so the only sane and rational response to the miserable reality of existence is denial.

 

So, yeah, I get what The Road is about, but I don't need to pay it a visit. 

 

Plus I think we only have so much time to become truly immersed in one or two things.  And I've chosen schlock.  It's too late to try and get all serious now.  I don't have time to get good at it. 

[Elsalvajeloco]

Perhaps my favorite movie of 2015 was Kumiko, the Treasure Hunter. I guess it was suppose to be sad, but at some point, I started cheering on this lady with a clear mental illness to find this thing that clearly doesn't exist. Rinko Kikuchi was that transfixing in the same way Bruce Dern pulls at your heartstrings in Nebraska.

It didn't make me try to understand mental illness more. It didn't try to appeal to me on how we can fix it as a society. It was more like, "Listen. This lady is batshit crazy, antisocial as all get out, and willing to destroy all her family and working relationships. But goddamnit, she is bound and determined to find this money that Steve Buscemi hid in Fargo." That's all I need as a hook.

[Jingus]

Rinko Kikuchi was that transfixing

To be fair, this statement is absolutely true in regard to practically any movie she's ever starred in.

[Eivion]

Thanks for the answers on my sad movie question.

[Roman]

I always enjoyed this Kafka quote, and it applies to movies as well: ‘I think we ought to read only the kind of books that wound and stab us. If the book we’re reading doesn’t wake us up with a blow on the head, what are we reading it for? So that it will make us happy, as you write? Good Lord, we would be happy precisely if we had no books, and the kind of books that make us happy are the kind we could write ourselves if we had to. But we need the books that affect us like a disaster, that grieve us deeply, like the death of someone we loved more than ourselves, like being banished into forests far from everyone, like a suicide. A book must be the axe for the frozen sea inside us. That is my belief.’

 

I love depressing movies. Family entertainment/sappy/happy/funny movies tend to bore me. Movies that depress me to no end (Lilja 4-Ever etc) are the ones that really get me deep, so I prefer to watch those. I'll feel like utter shit afterwards, but that feeling is genuine and deep, which is something I don't get with other kinds of movies.

[Reed]

 

Reading through the last page I'm curious what leads some of you to actively watch soul crushingly, depressing movies? Are you just interested in good films? Interested in what philosophies they go over? Generally I watch to be entertained so I tend to avoid just about anything that will lead to depression (i.e. most of films mentioned on the last page).

Well, there's nothing wrong with feeling sad sometimes. And Grave of the Fireflies is important subject matter and a really valuable perspective on a major world event.

 

 

 

Eh, I see both points.

 

On one hand, you have to know about the darker aspects of the world and can't be in a bubble.

 

On the other, you don't want to be fucking depressed all the time. (What's turning yourself into a sad wreck going to achieve?)

 

This is pretty much why I don't read books about the holocaust more, even though I've always found WW2 a fascinating subject.

 

It's just too horrific, you know?

[Reed]

Personally I tend to like movies and books (David Lynch, Raymond Chandler, Stanley Kubrick, Nordic Noir) that are quite dark, but not soul-crushingly so.

[Jingus]

Also, there's a sliding scale when it comes to these sorts of things. The Pianist is a dark fuckin' movie about the Holocaust, but the atrocities in that one aren't quite as soul-searing as Schindler's List on the same topic. And neither of them have ANYTHING on something like Men Behind the Sun, which is just one of the most appalling experiences I've ever had while watching what's technically a "good movie".

[Curt McGirt]

Reading through the last page I'm curious what leads some of you to actively watch soul crushingly, depressing movies? Are you just interested in good films? Interested in what philosophies they go over? Generally I watch to be entertained so I tend to avoid just about anything that will lead to depression (i.e. most of films mentioned on the last page).

 

Masochism. 

 

I've still never seen anything as fucked up as Combat Shock and probably never will, btw. The kind of film that gleefully invites you to shoot yourself in the face.

 

EDIT: Ah man we had that whole conversation about films you never want to see ever ever ever again and I never brought up Men Behind the Sun. Or Combat Shock, if I recall correctly.