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FEBRUARY 2016 WRESTLING DISCUSSION

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Random question: Is the difference between Scott Steiner's main event push failing in '90/'91 and Scott Steiner's main event push succeeding in '99/'00 that Steiner should always be a heel at that level? His in-ring performance never really changes at its base level - throw dudes around and mug for the crowd. The only real difference is that in '90, he's kind of a bland face and in '99, he's a fantastic heat magnet of a heel. 

 

Also, was there any way to salvage Steiner's main event push in '90/'91 so that it worked out?

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I can't get over you thinking the in ring work didn't change to read the rest of that

Seriously

What the fuck

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Random question: Is the difference between Scott Steiner's main event push failing in '90/'91 and Scott Steiner's main event push succeeding in '99/'00 that Steiner should always be a heel at that level? His in-ring performance never really changes at its base level - throw dudes around and mug for the crowd. The only real difference is that in '90, he's kind of a bland face and in '99, he's a fantastic heat magnet of a heel. 

 

Also, was there any way to salvage Steiner's main event push in '90/'91 so that it worked out?

He did not want to be in main events in 90/91. He wanted to keep teaming with Rick. Flair wanted to lose the title to him and Scott refused.

At that point the Steiners were way bigger together at that point than Scott could be alone.

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I can't get over you thinking the in ring work didn't change to read the rest of that

Seriously

What the fuck

My thoughts exactly.

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Yeah, I'm going to have to disagree that the ring work really changed that much. He was still mostly strong-manning dudes. The heelery in the ring is really what sets him apart. 

 

I've been watching both '90 and '99 Steiner lately and feel pretty comfortable making that statement, but if you disagree, you could actually say why. I'm open to different perspectives on this. 

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Scott Steiner even by 1996 was a much lesser wrestler than 1991. The more muscle he put on, the less mobile he got, the less he could do, and then he hurt his back. And kept putting on muscle. By the time he was WCW champion, he was just a big ball of muscle who was slow, couldn't do anything technical, couldn't go more than 10 minutes without being completely gassed. All he could do was clotheslines and belly to bellies by that point. The opposite of 1990-1991 Scott Steiner. He was a husk of his former self by the end of WCW.

 

He just made up for it by insane promos.

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He was working the same style, throwing guys around the ring. But he could not do the Frankensteiner by 99.

He was also a smarter worker by that point.

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Scotty was so much more athletic up to 95/96. Yes he had alot of suuplexes and throws, but it was all a build up to the Frankensteiner. Post 95-96/Big Poppa Pump, not so much.

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If the baseline is so low as "he was still suplexing guys" then you might as well say the Kurt Angle of 2010 was the same worker as the Kurt Angle of 2000/2001 as well.

 

Scott's athleticism and explosiveness had long since vanished by the time he WCW champion. Replaced with bulk and clubbing forearms. 

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Also, he was always such a natural heel. The decade might have been a lot different if he let Watts turn him in 92-93.

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If the baseline is so low as "he was still suplexing guys" then you might as well say the Kurt Angle of 2010 was the same worker as the Kurt Angle of 2000/2001 as well.

 

 

Well yeah pretty much. 

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I see. The incredulous responses are my fault for not being clear enough. Steiner's method in-ring, whether mobile or immobile, was predicated on lots of bomb-throwing. He lost the more athletic stuff from his repertoire after his back went out and started roiding up more, but the idea was still the same: throw guys around/hit big bombs. A Steiner match in '90 and '99 are going to be worked in that fashion even if he's far less mobile in '99. 

 

That's why I was thinking that really the big difference between them as far as ascending to the main event is that Steiner as a heel is the only way he really makes it as a main event guy, which is why he got over big after his heel turn and really should have been champ in 1998 if they could have found a way to do it (would people have bought him ending Goldberg's streak? I think possibly so). 

 

I'm more interested in the ways that people like Vic see him as a significantly smarter worker in '99. 

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Well it was brought on by being less mobile. He physically couldn't do stuff like the Frankensteiner or the Blockbuster slam. So he learned to talk shit and get heat during matches. He knew to reserve his suplexes for big spots in the match. He did lose the ability to work as a face during that period. But he was a top rate heel. 

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It's hard to say he matured as a Wrestler, because he never really got away from the spotfest style. It's just the spots themselves became less about "Wow Super-athlete!" and more about Attitude era "Pop for my signature pose, rubes!" stuff. I mean, he stopped rushing so much, but that was more the necessity of not moving as quickly than it was learning a smarter pace. But he never really became a storyteller in the ring at any point.

 

If he'd started doing the Big Poppa Pump gimmick in 1991, obviously he'd have to modify it because all of the size matters, Big Bad Booty Daddy stuff wouldn't make sense when he's only 240 lbs, but if he'd been that arrogant shit talker... I dunno, because his moveset then was full of all these Super-athlete spots, and those are babyface moves that people pop to see. And going to clotheslines and elbowdrops without the giant mass, people wouldn't get the Wrestling logic why his moves were more deadly than those of a big guy like Windham or Sid.

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Russo antics aside, I thought Steiner vs. Goldberg was a great match of two guys with seemingly unlimited power.

Such a fun match.  If more matches had had that level of stiffness and sloppiness, some of Russo's terrible insider-y stuff might have worked.  Like that stupid Nash-Goldberg-Stiner deal where they hinted that Goldberg had broken the script and gone into business for himself would have been much more believable if it had featured the level of nastiness of their Fall Brawl match where it was easy to sustain the belief that these two guys didn't like each other and were legitimately to hurt each other.

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It's soooo fucking frustrating watch Monday Night Wars and WWE harping on WCW burying the mid card and not making new main event stars...EXACTLY what they are doing today. Fuck.

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It's soooo fucking frustrating watch Monday Night Wars and WWE harping on WCW burying the mid card and not making new main event stars...EXACTLY what they are doing today. Fuck.

Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

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Is "apartment wrestling" like that video of when Jushin Liger and a bunch of NJPW guys beat up a house?

 

Aw man somebody's gotta find that video again

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So, Stuttsy and I were talking on twitter, and we were presented with a question;

Besides Warrior, Von Erich and LOD, has there ever been another Survivor Series team w every member in the Hall of Fame?

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So, Stuttsy and I were talking on twitter, and we were presented with a question;

Besides Warrior, Von Erich and LOD, has there ever been another Survivor Series team w every member in the Hall of Fame?

 

Assuming personal shit can be worked out, the DX, Hardys, and Punk team would be an automatic at some point

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So, Stuttsy and I were talking on twitter, and we were presented with a question;

Besides Warrior, Von Erich and LOD, has there ever been another Survivor Series team w every member in the Hall of Fame?

 

Just going from that same Survivor Series (1990), the team of Nikolai Volkoff, Tito Santana, and the Bushwhackers are all in the HOF.

 

1989 had a team of Roddy Piper, Jimmy Snuka, and the Bushwhackers.

 

1991 had a team of Jim Duggan, Sgt. Slaughter, Tito Santana, and Kerry Von Erich.

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Which SurSer team has the most deceased wrestlers in it?

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