Curt McGirt Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 The Owens thing reminds me, I rewatched Tracy Smothers causing a "riot" in IWA-MS last night. If he could only do something like that instead of tweeting insults to children... That also reminds me that the last time Miz and Truth weren't comedy fodder in WWE was when they tried to do their own version of that. (Minus trailer park residents trying to attack you though) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cristobal Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 I just think the idea of a "long term plan" in today's WWE means something a lot different than it did years ago. Outside of Roman's big push and the year long Rock/Cena "build" I'm struggling to come up with any recent examples of long term planning. The WWE had a clear long-term plan to have Batista win the title at Mania XXX, get destroyed by Lesnar at SummerSlam to make Lesnar the ultimate monster heel, and then have Roman Reigns beat him at Wrestlemania Play Button. This is why they don't do long-term plans anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stro Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 The weirdest thing about WWE in the past 3-4 years is how they've forgotten that you can have a guy on TV and getting angles progressed without having them wrestle every week. And then not realizing that guys are getting hurt and ruining long term plans because they wrestle 2-3 long TV matches every week instead of short jobber matches or 1 TV match per month. KO and Ambrose have a big match at the Rumble? How about...not having them both wrestle 7 long TV matches in the month before it happens where they don't hold back and take all the bumps and do all the dives every time. Two guys who are good at promo stuff. Maybe just have them cut promos on each other for a month, then you don't have to worry as much about one of them getting hurt before the PPV. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrag Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 It is very strange. I don't want to see 7 variations of the match I want to see THE MATCH. It's odd that all the matches are similar length, odd that they throw every full time guy out there every week. It might be the source of the booking problem. The mid-card can't develop because the Ambrose/Reigns/Owens tier is always in the ring. There just aren't enough over guys, because instead of giving the extra hour to the undercard they just add EXTRA segments for a few hot acts and eventually run them into the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIPPA Posted January 15, 2016 Author Share Posted January 15, 2016 Another long term plan recently was Nikki Bella's title reign But that was partly out of spite 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Ray Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 It also shows the flaw with Triple H's plan of "only calling NXT folks up when they have a good long term plan for them" I'm now amusing myself imagining a real life version of Throw Momma From The Train with HHH as Billy Crystal and Vince as the mom. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 I just think the idea of a "long term plan" in today's WWE means something a lot different than it did years ago. Outside of Roman's big push and the year long Rock/Cena "build" I'm struggling to come up with any recent examples of long term planning. The WWE had a clear long-term plan to have Batista win the title at Mania XXX, get destroyed by Lesnar at SummerSlam to make Lesnar the ultimate monster heel, and then have Roman Reigns beat him at Wrestlemania Play Button. This is why they don't do long-term plans anymore. Seems like they should have stuck to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirSmUgly Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 It's a tired talking point, but they simply don't maximize the value of their roster. For a company that just loves the Attitude Era so much, they sure don't learn the important details they need to learn from that era. Attitude-era Vince McMahon got max value out of Billy Fucking Gunn, but current-day Vince McMahon can't get max value out of Roman Reigns or Dean Ambrose, so what chance does Tyler Breeze have? Nope, the lesson they took from that era is "heel authority figures are a necessity." Question on a different topic: Is Lex Luger maybe the most underrated main event-level guy in U.S. wrestling history? People get on him as a wrestler and say that his best days were in Florida or that he peaked in '87-'89. That last one might be true, but he was a hard worker even when he was over-the-hill in 1998 and on rewatch of '98-'01 WCW, he's one of the brighter spots they have at that point, especially with that Total Package gimmick with Elizabeth which still comes off really well. His run as the Narcissist was real solid too (and I have always LOVED his time limit draw with Tatanka at KotR '93, easily my favorite Tatanka match ever) until they derailed his ascension to the main event as a heel by turning him face. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolfan in NYC Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Well, I mean, Vince's heart could literally explode any second now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsey Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 It also shows the flaw with Triple H's plan of "only calling NXT folks up when they have a good long term plan for them" I'm now amusing myself imagining a real life version of Throw Momma From The Train with HHH as Billy Crystal and Vince as the mom. That was a legit laugh out loud post. Well played, old bean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greggulator Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 I know this is a pipe dream and not likely at all, but it'd be a nice change of pace if the McMahons call out Bray Wyatt and company for not assisting in the beat down of Roman and / or Brock. And then Bray can stand up to him and look important for a change. And then Harper and Rowan can absorb the powers of the Undertaker and Kane and start doing choke slams and tombstones and they can important too. Wouldn't that nice? I think they are building to a Wyatts vs. League of Nations feud. They already traded it a few weeks back. Bray also has a new "Down With The Machine" shirt. None of those guys really have anything to do towards WrestleMania. They didn't rush into anything with The Shield vs. Wyatts. They teased it a few months before they actually went to it. I see it happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stro Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Question on a different topic: Is Lex Luger maybe the most underrated main event-level guy in U.S. wrestling history? People get on him as a wrestler and say that his best days were in Florida or that he peaked in '87-'89. That last one might be true, but he was a hard worker even when he was over-the-hill in 1998 and on rewatch of '98-'01 WCW, he's one of the brighter spots they have at that point, especially with that Total Package gimmick with Elizabeth which still comes off really well. His run as the Narcissist was real solid too (and I have always LOVED his time limit draw with Tatanka at KotR '93, easily my favorite Tatanka match ever) until they derailed his ascension to the main event as a heel by turning him face. Lex was very solid, capable of something really good with the right opponents, right up until the time he won the WCW Championship. Part of that was that he was programmed with guys he had no chance of having good matches with (2 out of 3 falls match with Ron Simmons? Come on.), but he also just kind of seemed to give up once he made it to the top. He had a couple of solid matchs at the start of his WWF run, but I don't think he ever was worth a shit in WCW again no matter how insanely over he was. I did enjoy the stuff with Sting and Lex still being bros despite their alignment differences in the first few months of Nitro, but ring wise, I don't know how he could possibly be underrated. He was probably at his worst when in the main events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man Known as Dan Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 I know this is a pipe dream and not likely at all, but it'd be a nice change of pace if the McMahons call out Bray Wyatt and company for not assisting in the beat down of Roman and / or Brock. And then Bray can stand up to him and look important for a change. And then Harper and Rowan can absorb the powers of the Undertaker and Kane and start doing choke slams and tombstones and they can important too. Wouldn't that nice? I think they are building to a Wyatts vs. League of Nations feud. They already traded it a few weeks back. Bray also has a new "Down With The Machine" shirt. None of those guys really have anything to do towards WrestleMania. They didn't rush into anything with The Shield vs. Wyatts. They teased it a few months before they actually went to it. I see it happening. The problem is that the New Day, a fun stable that they are, are not the SHIELD, or anything close to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Fresh Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 The weirdest thing about WWE in the past 3-4 years is how they've forgotten that you can have a guy on TV and getting angles progressed without having them wrestle every week. And then not realizing that guys are getting hurt and ruining long term plans because they wrestle 2-3 long TV matches every week instead of short jobber matches or 1 TV match per month. KO and Ambrose have a big match at the Rumble? How about...not having them both wrestle 7 long TV matches in the month before it happens where they don't hold back and take all the bumps and do all the dives every time. Two guys who are good at promo stuff. Maybe just have them cut promos on each other for a month, then you don't have to worry as much about one of them getting hurt before the PPV. It's upsetting when stro says something sensible. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawful Metal Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 I think one of the basic things they can do is alternate shows. Roman Reigns wrestles on Monday? He gets interviewed (or even better, training montage) on Smackdown. Monday, promo / skit / contract signing. Smackdown, wrestle a tag or a squash. Plus, y'know, advertising in advance what matches to expect on those shows. Also, Zack Ryder, Heath Slater, Sandow, et al. are on the roster to get destroyed. So, use them as comedy fodder that gets lit up by the clearly better wrestlers. Nowadays, these guys are only used to show that you're on the same level as them. Squash matches are great when it's a superstar destroying a ham'n'egger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Green Meanie Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 One thing I was curious about - Triple H had some big name talent signings a few years ago, namely Sin Cara and Kharma. Both have been touted as busts. This more recent wave, Hideo/Balor/NJPW, etc, is that being attributed to him also? And if so, has his reputation as an eye for talent improved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dog Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 I don't think lack of talent is what sank Kong and Mistico. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolfan in NYC Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 The fact that he's got complete creative control over NXT should let you know how much the WWE trusts him. Right now, his big failures are Sin Cara (injuries) & Kharma (insane). His successes are Kevin Owens, Sasha Banks, Charlotte, Becky Lynch, and Rusev. The jury is out on Bayley, Tyler Breeze, Sami Zayn, and Finn Balor, as well as several others, though they appear to be headed towards success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stro Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 The weirdest thing about WWE in the past 3-4 years is how they've forgotten that you can have a guy on TV and getting angles progressed without having them wrestle every week. And then not realizing that guys are getting hurt and ruining long term plans because they wrestle 2-3 long TV matches every week instead of short jobber matches or 1 TV match per month. KO and Ambrose have a big match at the Rumble? How about...not having them both wrestle 7 long TV matches in the month before it happens where they don't hold back and take all the bumps and do all the dives every time. Two guys who are good at promo stuff. Maybe just have them cut promos on each other for a month, then you don't have to worry as much about one of them getting hurt before the PPV. It's upsetting when stro says something sensible. I say a lot of sensible shit. The two things I really know in life are wrestling and bottom shelf booze. Which is terribly depressing. Both. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 I think one of the basic things they can do is alternate shows. Roman Reigns wrestles on Monday? He gets interviewed (or even better, training montage) on Smackdown. Monday, promo / skit / contract signing. Smackdown, wrestle a tag or a squash. Plus, y'know, advertising in advance what matches to expect on those shows. Also, Zack Ryder, Heath Slater, Sandow, et al. are on the roster to get destroyed. So, use them as comedy fodder that gets lit up by the clearly better wrestlers. Nowadays, these guys are only used to show that you're on the same level as them. Squash matches are great when it's a superstar destroying a ham'n'egger. I don't think that we even need those guys to be jobbers, just jobbers to the stars. Those are guys who could win a feud or two against the other guys in that range and then be used as fodder to strengthen the Intercontinental Champion. I never understand why they don't use their entire roster. When was the last time Sandow was on TV? Axel? Those are guys who are pretty decent hands who you are paying thousands of dollars to sit around doing nothing. They don't have to be main eventers, but they can still be valuable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIPPA Posted January 15, 2016 Author Share Posted January 15, 2016 I'm not giving Hunter credit for signing a Flair That was happening no matter who was calling shots. And Breeze was signed in 2010 so I'm not even sure Hunter signed him. I mean he might be the last of the FCW to get called up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 If you're talking strictly about an eye for talent, I don't even think you could pin Mistico I or Kong on HHH as failures. They were busts, but at the time he signed him they were both slam dunk no brainers. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stro Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 They were, however, doomed to have at least issues considering there was no one for either of them to work with. Bring in a giant lucha star and have him in matches with...the same 3 dudes over and over and over because none of the bigger guys knew how to work lucha style. And bringing in Kong at a time when they had no women wrestlers that could even run the ropes. Someone can't be a star on their own. They have to have people to work with. Kong and Mistico were not given that opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 I'd probably agree with that about Kong. But Mistico was his own worst enemy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVA Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 HHH may not have signed Breeze, but I think he definitely gets credit for keeping him around and developing him into what he is now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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