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2016 LUCHA UNDERGROUND DISCUSSION

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Great main event for sure. I'm another that didn't see the faces dropping the titles so soon at all, but PJ/Mundo/Evans is a pretty awesome heel trio. Cage/Chavo was a fun little story from last week in to this week.

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Thought Cage vs Matanza was a fucking blast.  Loved the subtle implication that Cage couldn't REALLY hurt the Monster, and had to kinda come in with a different gameplan.  Really fun episode.

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The commentary was on another level, making Shriners and Ed Hochulli references in the same match.

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I can't help but think that if LU could do it all over again from the beginning, they would've been better off casting Brian Cage as Matanza. Cobb hasn't been terrible or anything, but it just seems like Cage would've been perfect for the role. He's bigger, has more agility, better moves, better presence, works best when he doesn't have to sell much, and seems to have a better sense of how to put together an epic match.

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I was 100% sure Cage was going to be Matanza until that first vignette with Cage aired.

But the story is it was going to be Hernandez when they were planning on debuting him much earlier.

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Really good episode- and Cage/Matanza was a fun big man power move spotfest.

The trios was fun as hell just for the story.

 

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Puma kicking Mundo square in the dick was incredible.

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Also Daga's face when Kobra Moon was Thristy grabbing his leg.

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I'm not gonna lie, Cage/Matanza was one of the best "Two big dudes throwing bombs" match not in NJPW I've seen in a good long time.

 

Team Douchebag are great in their roles.  And yeah, the buildup to a Team Douchbag vs Team SuperTechnicos Roshambo match has been fun.

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I like the current Matanza and think he's better at it than Cage would have been by a smidge, but is probably leaps and bounds better than Hernandez would have been in the role (I've heard those rumors too and think they're true), and I like Hernandez - not just because he let me hit him with a belt on national television, either.

I don't know if I've plugged the Lucha Underground podcast I've been doing - not Carnage Culture.  A new one.


It's called Masks, Mats, and Mayhem, and it's available on iTunes and shit.  Its pretty much half lucha, half MMA, and it's fun as fuck.  It's me and my friends Justin Harvey (podcast creator) and Byron Turk (TJ Miller)

 

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12 hours ago, Go2Sleep said:

I can't help but think that if LU could do it all over again from the beginning, they would've been better off casting Brian Cage as Matanza. Cobb hasn't been terrible or anything, but it just seems like Cage would've been perfect for the role. He's bigger, has more agility, better moves, better presence, works best when he doesn't have to sell much, and seems to have a better sense of how to put together an epic match.

I think Cobb is just fine as Matanza and fits the character better than I would guess Cage would.  Cage works fine as someone who loves complex and contrived throws, Cobb has made his deadlift-heavy style a natural extension of what a Matanza should be, and frankly I think he's got a bit of a babyface so the mask makes him properly scary in a way he wouldn't be otherwise.  I'm sure Cage would have done a fine and credible job but I'm perfectly happy with how things turned out.

I remember reading that Marty the Moth was considered to be Mil Muertes, now THAT would have been a damn shame.  I like Marty well enough but Ricky Banderas has owned that character perfectly.

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Mil rules but Marty is one of the show's hidden gems. Great find.

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If this LU thing doesn't work out, Matanza needs to become a regular in Big Japan.

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1 hour ago, Mistah Na1m4rk said:

I think Cobb is just fine as Matanza and fits the character better than I would guess Cage would.  Cage works fine as someone who loves complex and contrived throws, Cobb has made his deadlift-heavy style a natural extension of what a Matanza should be, and frankly I think he's got a bit of a babyface so the mask makes him properly scary in a way he wouldn't be otherwise.  I'm sure Cage would have done a fine and credible job but I'm perfectly happy with how things turned out.

I remember reading that Marty the Moth was considered to be Mil Muertes, now THAT would have been a damn shame.  I like Marty well enough but Ricky Banderas has owned that character perfectly.

Like I said, I don't think Cobb has been bad. It just seems like Cage's skillset and demeanor would be more credible as an indestructible monster. He doesn't look like he's even giving up that much speed to the rest of the roster in addition to being the biggest guy there now. I also think he projects being an unstable psychopath with his body language better (like the way he hits people with no hesitation and his no-sell pose) even as a face. Also his finishers are a lot better. Even the goofy-looking Weapon X hits with way more impact than Cobb's reverse powerslam. Cobb should be using that dead-lift snap-German thing he busted out this week as a finish. I don't think "contrived" offense should be a concern in LU, especially if the character supposedly has some supernatural connection to the ancient Aztec tribes. Matanza should pretty much be peak luchador.

Moth as Mil would've been a waste on both fronts, since Banderas is a better worker, and Moth's biggest asset is his creepy face.

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I just hope they keep Matanza away from the big dudes for a while now.  He shouldn't sell anything else until time for Ultima Lucha, when they present whatever big babyface is taking him on(which I feel like should be Pentagon).

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I'd like to see Cobb in NXT or WWE- I think his style would work well there if he was allowed to be a suplex machine- he'd have to be able to do that stuff on bigger guys than Cage though- it looks like he can.

 

 

 

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I like Daga is the hard nosed competitor. In wrestling, it is a common archetype, but with Lucha Underground being so diverse and rich in character work, Daga being the no non-sense wrestler fits the bill. The rivalry or thirsty girl wants pretty boy thing with Daga and Kobra Moon was fun, if not different. It was weird, but understandable that Daga got some heel heat. I mean you boo Mandark for being a creepy asshole to Dee Dee, but Hinata chasing Naruto for the better part of a decade is endearing and shit.  He was being sexually assaulted and he kicked the woman in the face after clearly telling her to back the fuck up. "But that is a woman?" Naw fam, she gets the Heisman too if she was on me like that. Son of Havoc was pretty cool too.

The trios match and the vignette before it was awesome. I think Dragon Azteca, Rey Mysterio, and Prince Puma did some excellent character work showing that Lucha Underground is character driven and not plot driven. For example, DA is firmly interested in avenging his mentor and is somewhat rash about it. He thus takes his matches not so seriously and is more like a cavalier competitor in the ring. Rey Mysterio is a consumate professional and ultra competitive. While he does want to avenge his mentor as well, he understands patience is a virtue and is willing to wait while winning championships. He also is not driven by emotion sine he is a veteran. Prince Puma really was not connected to Dragon Azteca I(he was found by Rey Mysterio who then handed him over to Konnan for training) and thus is not driven by vengeance. Lucha Underground is his passion and being the best is his goal. So he takes it very personal when he feels jipped and him being trained and coached by Konnan,someone not above cheating and using interference, he does not have the moral qualms of super babyface Mysterio, and his obsession with being the best makes him take every match seriously unlike the distracte Dragon Azteca.

Johnny Mundo is doing his best work I have ever seen from him since his days as heel John Morrison when he actually mimicked Jim Morrison's eccentric style of speaking and overall behavior. He is such a shitty face or he just forgets to switch his characteristics as a heel from a babyface. Jack Evans is fucking Kevin Owens level of being an asshole. He knows how to be an inappropriate fuck and I love it. He does such little grimy shit like wiping his boots before stepping on Rey Mysterio just to show disrespect. Jack Evans is so under-appreciated as a wrestler and he gets unfairly labeled as a spot monkey.Yeah, he does crazy stupid flips and shit, but dude is an A+ shit talking heel. PJ Black...is just there. Why did they get him? I don;t understand how generic he is. I guess that is why he fits in with douchey gringoes.

I loved the main event. Yeah, I know it seems like I like the flippy guys and stuff, but I love guys who are unique. If two power guys got in the ring and did a shit ton of power spots like these two, I would be more inclined to watch two 400 pounders. Cage was amazing in this match. Mantanza showing off the strength as well made up his few blown spots against Mil Muertes. Dude straight up lost his leverage while picking up Cage for a German, readjusted himself before Cage hit the ground, and then hit the German anyways. That is scary strong. Cage busting out the Lucha was awesome and makes me wish Apollo took some cues from him in the story telling department.

This was a great show overall. I am really enjoying this season. 

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Randomly searching Yahoo Images I saw Cobb in a staredown with Gangrel where he was giving up half a head to the bloated vampire. For me that one image shatters the illusion far more just hearing over and over again that he's only 5'10." Something just ain't right about the (guy who plays the) monster having to stare up through that tubby bloodsucker's nostrils to look him in his beady eyes.  

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Catching up on last week, great main event from Cage/Matanza. Figured Cage never really had much of a shot but still great near falls with Cage hitting every move in his arsenal and then some. Good stuff. I've enjoyed Kobra Moon so far, should be a fun story with Daga. Another good trios match in the rematch.

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This is a week late; been busy. LUCHA UNDERGROUND REPORT ERM UH JUNE 1ST!

Spoiler

 

Son of Havoc's gymnastics routine is of no interest to me in a singles but that camera angle on the SSP was gnarly. I guess that Marty and Kobra are both stalkers now? Maybe they should get Masked Intruder to play on the show instead of Voodoo Glow Skulls. 

Puma has a lot of personality with his eyes under the mask yet looks like a goof without it. He might be one of those wrestlers that's just better under a hood. LOS DOUCHEBAGS~! They even get a fan behind them to blow their hair around during the entrance. Then Striker drops "Super Calo-esque" and a Shriners reference to their bandannas and sunglasses. Perfect. Vamp does his best to keep up by mentioning Johnny's "spinning backbreaker" (quebradora? I can't remember the term either) which apparently hasn't been see in LU yet. Never seen a dive train ended by somebody suplexing another guy onto the pile, wow. Of course Evans would be the one to take the bump. The end to this one was about ten times better than the last one with Puma saying fuck it with the foule, then superkicking Taya on accident to double up on the hostility. Rubber match between these two teams should be great. Needs Dario making a no-nut-kick stipulation though. 

Brian Cage was trained by Norman Smiley and Kanyon?! Well I'll be damned. And HO-LEE SHIT is this match fun. Cage appears to bleed from the mouth after a German on the floor and the Believers fucking clap the theme from The Terminator. That is something so smarky but so amazing. It would be real easy to get mad about the whole Fighting Spirit no-selling section with the Germans but these guys are both so ridiculously strong that it's easier to just shut your mind off and enjoy it as spectacle. It's just two enormous dudes battering each other until one drops, Cage busting out a little lucha style, Matanza just deadlifting him on damn near every throw. Like someone above said, I'd love to see these guys in BJW's Strong division. Just get them in as a tag team to bang their heads together against Okabayashi and Sekimoto and I'll actually buy DVDs! Actually -- and this is me thinking about the AAA World Cup -- wouldn't it be insane if they brought BJW guys into LU instead of the other way around? I mean it's not like they haven't wrestled for next-to-nothing on dirty bloodsoaked canvasses before.

EDIT: Credit for the BJW reference goes to Charlie M. "...Charlie fuckin' M." 

Oh and I guess it wouldn't technically be a rubber match

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That's the best Brian Cage match I've seen in ages. Better than Mundo's cage match. Better than most of his PWG stuff. 

I fucking loved that match.

Both he and Matanza had their working boots on during that match. 

Jesus, those germans...Brutal stuff.

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Raved about tonight's episode over on my twitter. The nunchucks match was everything great about Lucha Underground and one of my favorite matches in the history of the show. Main event was bonkers too and sets up what should be a wild 6 way next week. Great lead in to Ultima Lucha 2!

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That was me "throwing the nunchucks to Jack Evans and Aerostar intercepted"

I actually just suck at throwing and it took two tries and they edited the first one out

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Which of you maniacs was out there losing their shit while the band was playing?

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Didn't realize this season was so much shorter than last year.

I liked the nunchucks match a lot. Drago's bit where he was playing king of the hill with Jack and PJ was hilarious.

I also laughed at Vampiro bringing up an obscure 1999 WCW match on commentary to (hopefully ironically) put himself over. It should be noted that Vampiro did lose that match. It was a 6-man with ICP against the Filthy Animals.

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