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MILEY CYRUS THREAD OF DOOM


jaedmc

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I found it interesting to see that Lady Gaga, who stripped down to almost nothing and then stayed that way in the audience for the rest of the show didn't take any of the "whore" or "slut" heat that Miley did.  Is it because she's a little older, or because people expect her to be shocking and outrageous? 

 

Yeah, it's what I'd expect from Gaga and it is also because Gaga is a grown woman.  Miley is a kid.  The dad in me wants to yell at her because no kid does that without something really weird going on in their head or maybe that they were listening to someone leading them astray.

 

I can respect Billy Ray for letting Miley make her own decsions, even the bad ones, but Jesus bro, SAY SOMETHING TO YOUR DAUGHTER~!

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What I've gathered from watching the Miley performance and reading this thread:

 

There are a ton of bandwagon people out there:  Her performance wasn't in the least bit shocking or even over the top compared to other performances.  She wore skimpy clothing and danced around with her tongue out making lewd gestures.  That has literally never happened before.

 

People still don't know what twerking is.  There was all of about half a second of twerking in that performance.  Google is your friend.  

 

Miley is doing this for the attention.  Her execution is a little off because it doesn't look natural for her and it doesn't come off as sexy.  It comes off as awkward.  But yeah, if you're on here talking about her role in black culture or how disrespectful her performance was or how shocking it was, she got you.

 

To whoever it was that compared her to the nerdy kid in school who tries to hard to act cool, you couldn't be further off.  You don't think twice about that kid.  You don't remember their name.  You can't pick them out of a lineup.  There's six pages here that prove you wrong filled with people talking about this girl that would have no business talking about her whatsoever because they don't listen to her music and according to their posts don't find her attractive.   But here we are.  

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Like I said in my first post racial related stuff is always different across the pond. I feel that in US there's a very specific relationship between white and black cultures.

 

Anyhow, when people bring the racial angle in the whole Miley thing, the only that's being said is: she's trying to emulate black people when shaking her ass (uh?) and that her backup dancers are black women.

 

And that's what I don't get.

 

I'm debating whether to give this topic the old college try. I'm not looking to start any problems and with respect to the larger audience here, it may be best to let this go.

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There was this actress, actually I think she was in the Chinese Opera, it's been a while since I heard the story...anyway, this actress was one of the most famous women in the country and people all over the country loved watching her. Some western producers saw her and thought they had to have her in their movie or musical or whatever the hell it was. It was a lot of money, but she rejected them anyway, saying that while these Westerners may enjoy her performance it's not because they understand the culture, but because of her exoticism. She was a curiousity to the Westerners, but to her countrymen she was one of them - just really talented.

 

I think African Americans suffer from this, and I think it's something white people don't know they're actually doing. Look at the black women shaking their ass, how fun, I want to do that too. There's something kind of freakshow-esque with that woman that Miley slaps on the ass, and it kind of made me uncomfortable.

 

I'm not really sure how I feel about it, to tell you the truth. Because just as easily as Miley Cyrus and her PR people might be using the exoticism of black/urban culture to get some kind of cred, or lure in fans, it's also very possible that she's celebrating a black woman's confidence to not give a fuck and shake what she's got. Not to mention my conflict over what they're doing is sexual liberation and empowerment OR objectification of the female body to get attention.

 

I think that's why I'm actually interested in this whole subject because it feels very gray, and it deals with gender and race and our own struggle with our identities. I really wish Miley Cyrus could do what she did exactly the way she did and people could be either entertained or not entertained, without race/gender being an issue. But I think the performance further illustrates the divide in Americans in several important areas that we should probably continue to talk about and work through.

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What I've gathered from watching the Miley performance and reading this thread:

 

There are a ton of bandwagon people out there:  Her performance wasn't in the least bit shocking or even over the top compared to other performances.  She wore skimpy clothing and danced around with her tongue out making lewd gestures.  That has literally never happened before.

 

People still don't know what twerking is.  There was all of about half a second of twerking in that performance.  Google is your friend.  

 

Miley is doing this for the attention.  Her execution is a little off because it doesn't look natural for her and it doesn't come off as sexy.  It comes off as awkward.  But yeah, if you're on here talking about her role in black culture or how disrespectful her performance was or how shocking it was, she got you.

 

To whoever it was that compared her to the nerdy kid in school who tries to hard to act cool, you couldn't be further off.  You don't think twice about that kid.  You don't remember their name.  You can't pick them out of a lineup.  There's six pages here that prove you wrong filled with people talking about this girl that would have no business talking about her whatsoever because they don't listen to her music and according to their posts don't find her attractive.   But here we are.  

 

I don't have my copy of the 2012 DVDVR Census in front of me, but just from my best educated guess I would assume that median poster age is probably closer to 40 than it is to 20. There is a very small minority of people on here who would listen to stations that would play Miley Cyrus, let alone admit to liking it, so I see your point (full disclosure: I love her new song, and 'Party in the USA' wasn't great, but I don't hate it). Despite that, I will take youth-oriented mainstream discussions whenever I can get them. This thread, the MTv Challenge and the Total Divas threads are just about the only places where I can talk reality television and more mainstream (read: trashy) forms of entertainment on this board.

 

Plus, this conversation has splintered off into so many different directions, which as you said is exactly what MTv and Miley Cyrus wanted. People who wouldn't normally talk about this show are still keeping it front and center three days later. It's been four years since Kanye told Taylor Swift that he was 'gonna let her finish, but...' at the 2009 VMA's, so I'm sure MTv is over the moon with how this is playing out.

 

I have said this many times before, mostly when discussing the stupid things talking heads say on ESPN, but it warrants repeating: Everything on television is staged. Nothing gets on TV without at least 20 executives looking at it and allowing it to go. Every part of this routine was run by someone, and if she still went out there and did something off-script then there were at least ten managers and handlers who anticipated that something like this *might* happen - They're around the girl all the time. Someone had to make that ensemble she was wearing - she didn't buy it off the rack. Someone knew that she was obsessed with Twerking - I've been seeing headlines about her doing it and talking about it for months now. Someone had to hire her background dancers; measure them and make outfits for them. It was all calculated down to the second. They put her out there with Robin Thicke!

 

There are Marketing executives out there that could dissect every part of that routine, and the thought process behind it, as quickly as people on here could breakdown the psychology of a wrestling spot. Don Draper would be proud. He wouldn't understand it, but he'd still be happy with the attention it got.

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I think that's why I'm actually interested in this whole subject because it feels very gray, and it deals with gender and race and our own struggle with our identities. I really wish Miley Cyrus could do what she did exactly the way she did and people could be either entertained or not entertained, without race/gender being an issue. But I think the performance further illustrates the divide in Americans in several important areas that we should probably continue to talk about and work through.

 

When I first saw that performance, in absolutely no way did 'race' enter my mind. I just thought it was awkward as hell and figured that's what the all the controversy was about. Now, granted while I had encountered the phrase "twerking" online, I had absolutely no idea what it referred to (assumed it was some youtube meme). The next day on the internet, it seemed as if it was mostly Americans (mostly black Americans?) jumped on it as a racial issue. I think outside of the US, the racial element is practically non-existant

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 To whoever it was that compared her to the nerdy kid in school who tries to hard to act cool, you couldn't be further off.  You don't think twice about that kid.  You don't remember their name.  You can't pick them out of a lineup.  There's six pages here that prove you wrong filled with people talking about this girl that would have no business talking about her whatsoever because they don't listen to her music and according to their posts don't find her attractive.   But here we are.

My initial thought was the nerdy kid who tries to do something "edgy" at a school talent show and is ridiculed the following week. Should have been more clear in what I meant about trying to be cool.
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I think that's why I'm actually interested in this whole subject because it feels very gray, and it deals with gender and race and our own struggle with our identities. I really wish Miley Cyrus could do what she did exactly the way she did and people could be either entertained or not entertained, without race/gender being an issue. But I think the performance further illustrates the divide in Americans in several important areas that we should probably continue to talk about and work through.

 

When I first saw that performance, in absolutely no way did 'race' enter my mind. I just thought it was awkward as hell and figured that's what the all the controversy was about. Now, granted while I had encountered the phrase "twerking" online, I had absolutely no idea what it referred to (assumed it was some youtube meme). The next day on the internet, it seemed as if it was mostly Americans (mostly black Americans?) jumped on it as a racial issue. I think outside of the US, the racial element is practically non-existant

 

 

Which is probably very true. American's are a neurotic mess. Are we slut shaming, objectifying, racial profiling, culturally appropriating, sexist, agist, homophobic being generally offensive, abusive, insensitive, or politically incorrect? Most people have to ask themselves all of these questions before even speaking, and if they don't think about them and say something to the wrong person they are fucked.

 

We've backed ourselves into a corner with political correctness to the point where we can't even talk about actual problems for fear of upsetting some one. And we're constantly aware of everyone else's otherness, that we can't even function normally socially. It's no wonder we like burying our head in our TVs or stare into our cellphones on the train. It's why we build big boxes for us to live in with lots of locks and really high "privacy" fences. You take a look out the window and there's so many goddamn eggshells it feels insurmountable. 

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I continue to feel it is more mockery/exploitation than embracing. I'm not bothered that it received attention. Miley Cyrus will never be broke. We know that. My issue is with her team just as much as her but she's the name. The people on the team don't have names. That's why we're discussing her and not them but they are equally responsible for what I believe to be a racist gimmick.

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Like I said in my first post racial related stuff is always different across the pond. I feel that in US there's a very specific relationship between white and black cultures.

 

Anyhow, when people bring the racial angle in the whole Miley thing, the only that's being said is: she's trying to emulate black people when shaking her ass (uh?) and that her backup dancers are black women.

And that's what I don't get.

 

That's because there is a very specific relationship between white and black cultures in America, tied up in American history and the continued and institutionalized privilege of whites over blacks.

 

 

From the (limited) opinions I've read, it seems the problem people have with Miley's new act (not limited to, but including, the VMA performance) is that she's trying to "act black" (or act like what white people think black people are like, or whatever) for the sole purpose of creating an image and distancing herself from her old good girl persona. So basically, she's trying to adopt the real-life culture of a less-privileged group of people to use for personal profit. She's far from the only person to do that in the music biz, it just seems to be a particularly egregious example. And even though I'm a clueless, white Canadian, who probably wouldn't have realized the problematic nature of what Miley is doing without reading the opinions of other people, I can see why they'd be a bit pissed.

 

And who knows? Maybe in ten years, we'll look back and find that it wasn't just an act. Maybe Miley really is passionate about black culture and music, and will go on to create lots of great art in that style (not that it would make what she's doing now much less problematic, but it would make it seem more sincere and less like a money-grab). At the moment though, the shift just seems jarring, forced, and fake.

 

I think that's the interesting issue about this whole thing, anyway. I agree with glfpunk, everyone getting stirred up about the "shock" aspect of it is just getting worked. And it's kind of hilarious how people complain about the stupid/crazy things that celebrities do for attention, not realizing that the best way to get them to stop would be to not pay them any attention when they do stupid/crazy things. But no, people don't really want them to stop. Everyone loves a bit of faux-outrage.

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Like I said in my first post racial related stuff is always different across the pond. I feel that in US there's a very specific relationship between white and black cultures.

 

Anyhow, when people bring the racial angle in the whole Miley thing, the only that's being said is: she's trying to emulate black people when shaking her ass (uh?) and that her backup dancers are black women.

 

And that's what I don't get.

 

I'm debating whether to give this topic the old college try. I'm not looking to start any problems and with respect to the larger audience here, it may be best to let this go.

 

I have no idea what you tried to say here, but I would love if you could PM me.

 

 

When I first saw that performance, in absolutely no way did 'race' enter my mind. I just thought it was awkward as hell and figured that's what the all the controversy was about. Now, granted while I had encountered the phrase "twerking" online, I had absolutely no idea what it referred to (assumed it was some youtube meme). The next day on the internet, it seemed as if it was mostly Americans (mostly black Americans?) jumped on it as a racial issue. I think outside of the US, the racial element is practically non-existant

 

Which is the main point I've been trying to make through my posts and that's why I'm trying to discuss it and get more perspective about it.

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This topic has been talked about on almost every pop culture website I frequent (thank you for the insight on twerking ABC News), so I guess it shouldn't surprise me there's a multiple page thread about it on this wrestling forum.  Miley has more name cache than Pitbull at least.

 

I am getting a kick out of some people saying their earliest experiences with "twerking", the word and action, has been through Miley Cyrus' recent escapades.  Miley Cyrus is really going to be the one to popularize twerking to the general public, despite it being around for years?  Of course.

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Years? Decades, man! Homegirls have been twerking for as long as there have been house parties.

 

Only there was no dumb term for it. Girls just did what they did. Why does everything need a word now?

 

As far as Miley "acting black" goes, I am sure she feels a certain comfort that comes with sporting an urban image that plays to racial stereotypes because she has the luxury of stopping whenever she wants to.

 

Meanwhile we have to be black through the popularity of twerking and the glamorization of thug life and through random traffic stops and being stalked by an unhinged member of some neighborhood watch that thinks that we assholes always get away with it..

 

When Miley goes to a grocery store, some kid will ask for her autograph while there is a good chance that some lady will clutch their purse tighter when I walk by to get some Krispy Kremes.

 

If I bothered to get mad about it, I'd stay mad. Better to take solace in knowing that there are some good people out there that accept me for who I am instead of what I look like.

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I should also mention, it's not just the twerking people are critical of (if that was the only thing, it wouldn't be an issue). It's surrounding herself with black people and using them as props in her show. It's the lyrics of her songs. It's the stuff she says. Heck, she explicitly said that she likes "hood music" and wants more of a black sound.

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I thought Middle America would at least still remember the Ying Yang Twins' songs.

 

Oh, and I think people are having issues with Miley's use of black backup dancers because they think she is using them(intentionally or not) more as props and/or toys to legitmatize her current act instead of dancers who enhance her choreography and show.  Similar criticisms were made at Gwen Stefani for her use of the Harajuku Girls, the Japanese American backup dancer team she used during her solo era.

 

I don't know either individuals' intentions or what's in their hearts, but I think it's always good to discuss legit concerns and criticism.

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I liked it when Gwen Stefani brought out the Harajuku Girls, because it made me feel like she liked Asian people. It was like I had an in. 

 

To a doorway billions of miles away, but an in, nonetheless. 

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My head was so far up my ass back then that I think I just drooled over Gwen Stefani and barely even notice how the Harajuku Girls were being treated.  Looking back, the whole thing is off-putting.  Stefani trotted them around in matching outfits to all sorts of events, but I don't remember them ever speaking in her presence.  Weird.  I'm sure someone has written a much more insightful view on this than me, but I don't think she could do the same thing now and have it go as smoothly as it did in 2006.

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Years?  Decades, man!  Homegirls have been twerking for as long as there have been house parties.

 

Only there was no dumb term for it.  Girls just did what they did.  Why does everything need a word now?

 

As far as Miley "acting black" goes, I am sure she feels a certain comfort that comes with sporting an urban image that plays to racial stereotypes because she has the luxury of stopping whenever she wants to. 

 

Meanwhile we have to be black through the popularity of twerking and the glamorization of thug life and through random traffic stops and being stalked by an unhinged member of some neighborhood watch that thinks that we assholes always get away with it..

 

When Miley goes to a grocery store, some kid will ask for her autograph while there is a good chance that some lady will clutch their purse tighter when I walk by to get some Krispy Kremes.

 

If I bothered to get mad about it, I'd stay mad.  Better to take solace in knowing that there are some good people out there that accept me for who I am instead of what I look like.

This is some straight up 100% truth.  I would have no issue with her twerking if she had an ass if it didn't seem like she was just exploiting some shit she doesn't really understand.  It is unbelievable how much our society lacks context.  Acting black never seems to mean anything but acting like a thug, or shaking your ass, or just about any other behavior people find problematic.  Then some white chick puts in a grill, and everyone acts like it's either the next movement of the Ku Klux Klan or it is bridging racial gaps.  It is neither, it is someone who has no understanding of the culture they are cherrypicking , and looking like a lame to the people they are trying to emulate.  Then the next time I'm hanging out in mixed company I have to answer dumbass questions about why I don't have a tattoo or wear any jewelery. 

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I liked it when Gwen Stefani brought out the Harajuku Girls, because it made me feel like she liked Asian people. It was like I had an in. 

 

To a doorway billions of miles away, but an in, nonetheless. 

 

Not to bring up unpleasant memories of anyone's Freshman year English lit. class, but this seems pertinent:

 

Posted Image

 

At least for what Gwen Stefani was doing.  Japan as a western fantasyland in 2004 is pretty similar to India and the Middle East as Western fantasyland in 1900, no?

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