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UFC on Fox 17: Dos Anjos vs. Cerrone II (12/19/2015) - Orlando, FL (Amway Center)


Elsalvajeloco

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I kind of thought the Junior fight was stopped a little premature. He was hurt no question, but he was blocking and trying to get to his feet and Overeem is definitely a dude that could punch himself out. On the other hand, Cowboy is starting to look like this moments Kenny Florian. 

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Why is it that Overeem never throws straight punches in MMA fights?

 

Yeah, his technique was weird against Dos Santos. It's weird watching someone that size do the Carlos Maussa "any punch that's not a jab you need to throw from halfway across your body" punching routine.

 

He throws like a submarine pitcher almost.

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Sucks that Samman lost but I like seeing McCrory in the Octagon again. Kaufman got smashed in the grappling department on her fight and CB dumbly ran right into a counter punch. Oliveira is just nasty at his weight class but he has to make weight or he will be screwed there.

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You wonder where Cerrone can go from here; He's lost to the Champion twice, so that pretty much means no more title shots (unless Dos Anjos loses the belt somehow,or leaves the weight class.Neither of which seem likely in the immediate), but at 6'1" he's not making 145 safely, and his frame is all wrong for 170. And you don't want him as a gatekeeper for a title shot, because basically nobody's making it through the gate. So he's probably looking at some serious career drift right now... it's not like he has many disputed decisions you could sell as the basis for a grudge rematch. The best candidate for that was the first Dos Anjos loss, and he's already had his rematch.

 

Seems kind of odd that it's been fairly common knowledge that pure Muay Thai from Thailand* is a great base for an MMA fighter, but we've never seen any of the male fighters use it too much. Even the guys with really good Muay Thia, when they clinch up they halfway turn into Wrestlers, or Jui Jitsu players**. This show had two women doing pure Thai grappling, and it looked great. Especially considering their opponents had Wrestling as a base, so on paper Thai clinch style shouldn't have been effective.

 

* As in, not the Dutch Muay Thai/ Kickboxing hybrid style that's all about the distance fighting and hardly bothers with the Thai Grapple.

 

** Except early Anderson Silva. Why he moved away from that style and started pretending to be Roy Jones instead, I don't know.

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I'm not the most knowledgeable poster here but I say he's fine to stay at lightweight. There's always enough talent coming up that it will be easy to find fights and after the weekend he's a couple years away from a title shot anyway.

 

I only remember Silva really tearing up the clinch in the Franklin fights. Probably something about the takedown or bodylock that most guys can get into from there. Off-topic but any rumours about the next Silva fight? He's got to be on the top of my list of guys I know I shouldn't want to see fight again...but really, really want to see fight again.

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You wonder where Cerrone can go from here; He's lost to the Champion twice, so that pretty much means no more title shots (unless Dos Anjos loses the belt somehow,or leaves the weight class.Neither of which seem likely in the immediate), but at 6'1" he's not making 145 safely, and his frame is all wrong for 170. And you don't want him as a gatekeeper for a title shot, because basically nobody's making it through the gate. So he's probably looking at some serious career drift right now... it's not like he has many disputed decisions you could sell as the basis for a grudge rematch. The best candidate for that was the first Dos Anjos loss, and he's already had his rematch.

 

Seems kind of odd that it's been fairly common knowledge that pure Muay Thai from Thailand* is a great base for an MMA fighter, but we've never seen any of the male fighters use it too much. Even the guys with really good Muay Thia, when they clinch up they halfway turn into Wrestlers, or Jui Jitsu players**. This show had two women doing pure Thai grappling, and it looked great. Especially considering their opponents had Wrestling as a base, so on paper Thai clinch style shouldn't have been effective.

 

* As in, not the Dutch Muay Thai/ Kickboxing hybrid style that's all about the distance fighting and hardly bothers with the Thai Grapple.

 

** Except early Anderson Silva. Why he moved away from that style and started pretending to be Roy Jones instead, I don't know.

Both of your comments come down to the same problem, defense.  Cerrone is an outstanding offensive fighter who can blow just about anyone's doors off if they give him the time to work.  He is also a terrible defensive fighter.  If his opponent gets his offense off first, he's extremely hittable.  His head doesn't move, and he doesn't take punishment well at all.  He is the perfect for fighting wrestling based grapplers or counter strikers, because his offensive game is so dynamic, but if someone comes for his head he doesn't really have an answer.

 

The reason that fighters don't use pure Muay Thai is that it makes it extremely difficult to defend against power wrestlers.  You can't stand that straight, and high without someone taking them down.  The stance keeps your hips in a vulnerable position. 

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Cerrone always tends to bounce back from his losses pretty well, even the big meaningful ones.  But this is just always the case for him.  He looks like a killer in the smaller fights, but when he gets to the really big ones, he tends to just look mentally beaten and just gets taken apart.  Case in point, his title eliminator with Anthony Pettis, his first rematch with Benson Henderson, fight with Nate Diaz, this fight with RDA, etc.  

 

I think Cerrone's career and legacy will be just one of those exciting dudes with some outstanding wins and finishes who generally always fought at a high level and was a regular contender, but was never able to take home the belt.

 

But it just goes to show how competitive and stacked this division is.  I really think McGregor really stands little chance at lightweight.  Then again, I've been wrong about McGregor before.

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If we were to get into the 'Top 10 UFC fighters to have never been a UFC Champion' discussion... well, we'd need another thread, obviously, but Cerrone would be up there. Faber is the other obvious candidate (if you don't count his WEC title run as a UFC belt).

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Cerrone always tends to bounce back from his losses pretty well, even the big meaningful ones.  But this is just always the case for him.  He looks like a killer in the smaller fights, but when he gets to the really big ones, he tends to just look mentally beaten and just gets taken apart.  Case in point, his title eliminator with Anthony Pettis, his first rematch with Benson Henderson, fight with Nate Diaz, this fight with RDA, etc.  

 

I think Cerrone's career and legacy will be just one of those exciting dudes with some outstanding wins and finishes who generally always fought at a high level and was a regular contender, but was never able to take home the belt.

 

But it just goes to show how competitive and stacked this division is.  I really think McGregor really stands little chance at lightweight.  Then again, I've been wrong about McGregor before.

I think the thing about guys like Cerrone, Florian, and guys of their ilk  is that the gap between good and great is bigger than you think.  Do you guys remember when Jon Fitch was running through the Welterweight division and we thought that he could be the guy to beat GSP?  Jon Fitch received the beating of a lifetime when he got into the cage with St. Pierre, not because he wasn't good, Georges was just so much better.  Sometimes it is hard to tell the difference between fighters before they get in the cage together, but the best fighters are generally guys who can do it all, and most importantly can dictate how a fight is fought.  Georges was great, because he was a good enough striker to strike with anyone and a good enough grappler to grapple with anyone.  Above those skills his wrestling offense and defense made it impossible for his opponents to decide where the fight would take place.  So many of his fights were done by the end of the first round, because it was apparent that his opponent couldn't do anything offensively.  He would take down strikers so they were laying on their backs or just jabbed grapplers to death, because they could neither take him down nor stop his takedowns.  A guy like Cerrone who only seems to be able to thrive when he controls the pace of the fight, but doesn't have the ability to dictate how a fight is fought has a clearly defined ceiling.  He's in the same class of someone like Frank Mir or Vitor Belfort, when they are working their games they can look like world beaters, but as soon as they fight someone who takes them out of their comfort zone, they don't have what it takes to adjust on the fly. 

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Maybe because I didn't read a ton of opinion pieces beforehand, but I never believed that Fitch was seen as the person to beat GSP. All I saw was just the groundswell of support that he would get his title shot after going on that win streak. After GSP beat the breaks off Serra in the rematch, it seemed like second title win was more of the coronation for GSP than when Hughes replaced Serra in third fight with GSP or the year before he head kicked the bejesus out of Hughes to win the title the first time.

 

I actually saw picking Penn to beat GSP at UFC 94. I don't remember anyone outwardly saying that Fitch would beat GSP. The few times I actually giggle going back through old stuff (forums or stuff on sites like Bloody Elbow) is Gusmao over Jon Jones from the same card as GSP-Fitch. This guy Jon Jones is a decent prospect, but no, he can't beat Andre Gusmao. 

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Maybe because I didn't read a ton of opinion pieces beforehand, but I never believed that Fitch was seen as the person to beat GSP. All I saw was just the groundswell of support that he would get his title shot after going on that win streak. After GSP beat the breaks off Serra in the rematch, it seemed like second title win was more of the coronation for GSP than when Hughes replaced Serra in third fight with GSP or the year before he head kicked the bejesus out of Hughes to win the title the first time.

 

I actually saw picking Penn to beat GSP at UFC 94. I don't remember anyone outwardly saying that Fitch would beat GSP. The few times I actually giggle going back through old stuff (forums or stuff on sites like Bloody Elbow) is Gusmao over Jon Jones from the same card as GSP-Fitch. This guy Jon Jones is a decent prospect, but no, he can't beat Andre Gusmao. 

I didn't see the GSP-Fitch event live for some reason, so I didn't see Jon Jones debut as it happened.  The first time I saw Jon Jones he was hitting spinning elbows and Taz's entire suplex arsenal on Stephan Bonner.  I don't remember what card that was on, but I remember that me and my friend watched the Jones fight twice after the event was over.  He looked like he could do whatever the hell he wanted, and was making up new stuff as it was going on.  That spinning back elbow is one of the most electrifying moments in MMA history, Jon Jones might as well have yelled, "Here's Johnny!" because everyone who was watching was immediately a fan.

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Why is it that Overeem never throws straight punches in MMA fights?

 

MMA answer:

 

It is the kickboxer in him. He seems to throw a lot of looping punches in the hope of forcing his opponent to switch levels.  If the punch catches the guy, fine, if not his opponent goes low to avoid the overhand strikes and Reem can try to work his trademark knees and body kicks or counter takedown attempts with the Guillotine Choke he likes to employ.

 

Probably the real answer:

 

Overeem is a bit of a show-off and wants to get dramatic knock-outs in order to pander to the crowd, so he throws nothing but haymakers.

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