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UFC 194: Aldo vs. McGregor (12/12/2015) - Las Vegas, NV (MGM Grand Garden Arena)


Elsalvajeloco

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My only counterpoint is Rockhold was clearly gassing by the third and Weidman was getting take downs much easier. First round was close but I'd think most would score it for Weidman.

Agreed on Romero though.

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You guys must have been watching a different fight than me.  I thought Weidman clearly won the first, lost the second, and was winning the third until he threw that wheel kick.  It was close and competitive until the wheel kick, but that kick put him in the position to get his face turned into hamburger.  I don't know if Rockhold would have been able to take him down and control him without that error.  I think if anyone was gassing it was Weidman, who was taking some pretty deep breaths after Rockhold had him in that guillotine, even though it clearly wasn't choking him.  I thought the fight was Weidman's to win until that kick, even though I wouldn't have been surprised if Rockhold would have taken over because of his superior conditioning.  The fact that he could barely stand after the fight surprised the shit out of me, because he looked so strong during the fight.  I'd like to see a rematch, because those two are really evenly matched, but who knows what is going to happen. 

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I had Weidman in the 1st, Rockhold the 2nd. I thought Weidman was winning in the 3rd up until the kick. Rockhold had slowed down a lot at that point and Chris was starting to land a lot more. Rockhold did not like those body kicks. I thought Weidman was going to control the fight from that point. Seeing the way Rockhold was moving after the fight, that certainly wasn't going to help if that wheel kick doesn't happen.

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As your resident cocky Irish bastard, I've been quiet as long as I can regarding McGregor...

 

ERIN GO BRAGH! McGregor Aboo!

 

There. That is all.

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You guys must have been watching a different fight than me.  I thought Weidman clearly won the first, lost the second, and was winning the third until he threw that wheel kick.  It was close and competitive until the wheel kick, but that kick put him in the position to get his face turned into hamburger.  I don't know if Rockhold would have been able to take him down and control him without that error.  I think if anyone was gassing it was Weidman, who was taking some pretty deep breaths after Rockhold had him in that guillotine, even though it clearly wasn't choking him.  I thought the fight was Weidman's to win until that kick, even though I wouldn't have been surprised if Rockhold would have taken over because of his superior conditioning.  The fact that he could barely stand after the fight surprised the shit out of me, because he looked so strong during the fight.  I'd like to see a rematch, because those two are really evenly matched, but who knows what is going to happen. 

Rockhold took deep breaths and looked uncomfortable as early as the second round. That's the medication and illness he was going through. That's not to say Weidman wasn't tired either, because he certainly looked it. 

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You guys must have been watching a different fight than me.  I thought Weidman clearly won the first, lost the second, and was winning the third until he threw that wheel kick.  It was close and competitive until the wheel kick, but that kick put him in the position to get his face turned into hamburger.  I don't know if Rockhold would have been able to take him down and control him without that error.  I think if anyone was gassing it was Weidman, who was taking some pretty deep breaths after Rockhold had him in that guillotine, even though it clearly wasn't choking him.  I thought the fight was Weidman's to win until that kick, even though I wouldn't have been surprised if Rockhold would have taken over because of his superior conditioning.  The fact that he could barely stand after the fight surprised the shit out of me, because he looked so strong during the fight.  I'd like to see a rematch, because those two are really evenly matched, but who knows what is going to happen. 

Rockhold took deep breathes and looked uncomfortable as early as the second round. That's the medication and illness he was going through. That's not to say Weidman wasn't tired either, because he certainly looked it. 

 

 

Meltzer kinda pointed this out on the 194 recap show and just seems really bizarre in hindsight. It was weird for Weidman to admit coming into the fight he was 192 pounds and actually a welterweight etc. First of all, you're probably going get some PED stuff out there. Second, it really doesn't establish that you're in fight shape. Meltzer beforehand was talking how both guys will be shape, and they will not gas out. Then, he was super surprised that they both did. Granted, he also said he thought it was strange that Rockhold wouldn't tell him what type of shape he was in.

 

In the actual fight, Weidman did look smaller. Rockhold did a little, but he was still a pretty big especially compared to Weidman. As soon as round 1 ended, in my head, I was thinking that it is lights out if Rockhold gets on top of him. It would be Weidman-Belfort all over again except Weidman would be the one who couldn't get back up. I don't think he looked as frail as Belfort did at 187, but his legs didn't look right to me. Plus, I didn't see any spring in his step at the very beginning of the fight. Rockhold did his job and forced Weidman to be more active than he wanted to be. He also did work to his body. However, I found it to be so revealing about the weakness of Weidman's overall game. The reckless part was something we already knew about and it's ultimately what lost him the fight. The fact that in most of his fights he is use to being the physically dominant guy shows me that he needs intangibles and punch resistance when it doesn't work that well. In both the two fights prior to Rockhold, that advantage did help out but it didn't work 100%. Against Machida, he had the heart and chin. Against Belfort, it was just his chin. When all that got thrown out the window against Rockhold, he went into "just do stuff" mode and paid for it the first time in his career. Rockhold was sitting on his chest like a boulder. He took a hell of a beating.

 

If I am guy like Jacare who might fight Weidman down the line to get back in front for a title shot, how do I not look at that fight and just hope that I get Weidman on the ground? If he wants to roll for random leglocks, it's not going to be a pleasant sight.

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If I am guy like Jacare who might fight Weidman down the line to get back in front for a title shot, how do I not look at that fight and just hope that I get Weidman on the ground? If he wants to roll for random leglocks, it's not going to be a pleasant sight.

 

You are taking for granted that Weidman's biggest strength of a fighter is that he's a great wrestler.  Jacare could possibly take him down, but I wouldn't bet on it.  Weidman would most likely batter Jacare standing, but it is a very interesting fight. 

 

Rockhold is a massive middleweight, the fact that he basically had to do an entire life change to make 185 after the IV ban shows just how big he is.  The IV ban was done for good enough reasons, but I forsee it being more harm than good in the end.  There is no reason that a fighter shouldn't be able to rehydrate with an IV after dehydrating themselves to make weight.  I know they are trying to make sure people stop doing harmful weight cuts, but that is kind of like making a land bridge for fish with the hope that they'll evolve and grow legs.  Weight cutting is a huge part of the culture of all combat sports, and it is a problem that needs a solution.  The solution of the problem shouldn't be to make it less safe in the short term to try to make it safer in the long term.  Middleweight could really see a problem going forward, because of the 20 pound buffer between divisions.  A natural 210 pound fighter fighting at 205 would most likely be a losing proposition, but that cut down to 185 is tough especially if you are limited to how you can rehydrate. 

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If I am guy like Jacare who might fight Weidman down the line to get back in front for a title shot, how do I not look at that fight and just hope that I get Weidman on the ground? If he wants to roll for random leglocks, it's not going to be a pleasant sight.

 

You are taking for granted that Weidman's biggest strength of a fighter is that he's a great wrestler.  Jacare could possibly take him down, but I wouldn't bet on it.  Weidman would most likely batter Jacare standing, but it is a very interesting fight. 

 

Three things though:

 

1) Jacare is pretty good at stopping takedowns. I believe the last time Jacare was taken down was against Tim Kennedy. That was more than five years ago. I think part of Jacare's success regarding that is he is a pretty damn good athlete, and people figure that it might not be good news if they don't land on top. Keep in mind, Jacare is also a former judoka.

 

2) Jacare has made significant gains in his striking. This ain't the same dude that got slept by Macaco. Besides the spinning backfist, how many good shots did Romero land on him? He had a good jab to keep Jacare away. There were maybe a few other solid punches, but Jacare pretty much controlled it the tempo for a majority of the fight. Weidman has good power, but his recklessness is also a clear detriment.

 

3) Jacare has many different ways to get a fight to the ground. He isn't just a bowl-you-over with a single or double guy. Besides Maia and a couple other guys (Dariush being another one I would say), he has the best exotic techniques to get a fight to the ground. Plus, he has a freaky power when he has to use conventional wrestling techniques. Romero is a massive man, and even he had to resort to a blatant cage grab to stop a Jacare takedown. Weidman is coming into fights now the size of an average welterweight. 

 

I am not saying I would pick Jacare and just from one fight. It's a very interesting fight as you said, but we know so much more about Weidman now. You can't count him out, but we've seen where he can be attacked.

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Agreed. I think Jacare is still too flat footed and he doesn't use an awful lot of head movement but he's not going to get steamrolled standing with Weidman. Weidman would again be without the huge physical advantage in that fight too. I'd pick Souza.

 

Have they done the medical suspensions yet? Doesn't seem to be thhe case but I'm guessing Chris is going to need a long time to recover from that ass whooping Rockhold put on him. I'd really like to see him fight Souza ASAP.

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Isn't the idea of the IV bans to more or less force fighters to fight closer to their normal weight? If it's an incredibly dangerous cut without re-hydrating with an IV, fight at a higher weight class.

That is the exactly the reason they banned IVs, but it is kind of like telling drug addicts to just say no.  It is incredibly dangerous to cut without hydrating with an IV, but these are the same people who decided locking themselves in a cage to fight is a good idea.  You are expecting people to act in a way that is different than what they would realistically behave.  These are incredibly competitive people who have been cutting weight for years, they aren't going to change now.  The entire culture of the sport is to fight at the lowest weight possible, which means most guys have to cut weight.  Fighting is more dangerous than cutting weight, and they do it any way.  Cutting weight isn't going away.

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It's not going to go away but it's going to change because it has to. Unfortunately, it's going to take a while in order for that to pan out and somebody is going to get seriously hurt because of their pigheadedness (let's just hope it's not a Yang Jian Bing situation). Between that and the stronger drug tests, we're seeing people talk about changing weight classes and now there's this story about RdA looking like a completely different person trying to make weight. We're in for a sketchy few years but hopefully, long-term, it works out like it should.

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Have they done the medical suspensions yet? Doesn't seem to be thhe case but I'm guessing Chris is going to need a long time to recover from that ass whooping Rockhold put on him. I'd really like to see him fight Souza ASAP.

 

The reported payouts for the 3 shows are out, but no medical suspensions have been released that I've seen. 

 

On the cutting weight thing:

I remember listening to Junkie radio back when it was called Tagg. Frank Trigg was talking how the perfect division for him would be 175. He cuts too much to feel good at 170, but he is way too small for 185. The thing is that while some of that maybe true, how long is it before a person in that position says, "You know what? The fighters are too big for me at 175 because it's nothing but ex-middleweights and people like Anthony Johnson can make 175 now."

 

Part of fighting is accepting that nothing is perfect about it. Fighters like Rumble have a big advantage when they can make a much smaller weight class. However, it becomes a giant disadvantage when it's no longer the case.  Even if we leave skills out of it, you've already accepted that something bad could potentially happen. The guys at welterweight use to be 5'5, 5'6", and 5'7". Now if you're 5'6" facing someone like Tim Means, you're going to get fucked up. Now when you move down a weight class, that doesn't mean there won't be guys who are huge. If there is a seismic shift in how big the fighters in that weight class are, you can't have in your head that cutting more weight is the solution. Now, you're no longer undermining just your skills. You're undermining your body. If your body doesn't work, doesn't matter how talented you are. Renan Barao was one of the most exciting fighters to watch. His body just stop responding.

 

Cutting weight is always going to happen. However, fighters still have to get over that mental obstacle. If they don't, they're just making fighting even more dangerous.

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I was going to ask if Barao decided he was moving up to 145 but google helped me out. I must've missed that back in September. Good news for him and he could essentially fill in Aldo's hole in the division should Jose move up to 155. I never want to see zombie Barao again.

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So do they give Weidman a rematch and tell him not to use wheelkicks, or do they give Romero the next shot? Because I don't really want to see Romero in a five rounder.

 

How many UFC Champions are Southpaws, now? Because it's more than the 10% of the population who are left handed.

It is amazing how being left handed seems to throw off everyone in almost every sport.  Left handed pitchers pitch until their arms fall off, because there just arent' enough of them to go around.  James Harden and Manu Ginobili seem to be able to get to the rim whenever they want, because everyone forgets they are left handed.  It doesn't seem like it should be that big of an advantage, but when you are talking about elite athletes it makes a difference.

 

 

It seems that Conor, Rockhold and Holly Holm are the only actual left-handed fighters of the current champions (so there were no left handed champions a couple of months ago), but Werdum, Lawler, Dos Anjos, Dillashaw and Johnson are all switch hitters.

 

Memo to young MMA fighters: Be a switch hitter. It's useful.

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It is marginally easier to be a switch hitter in boxing than it is in MMA.  I am a natural rightie but I can jab and throw power punches equally from traditional or southpaw, but that is just hands and a good boxer knows how to mask his footwork as not to telegraph which hand he favors. 

 

In kick striking arts like Krav Maga however, I still favor my right leg for power kicks.  I can circle to either side effectively, but any opponent that studies me well knows that I will probably only throw punches if I am going to my right and throw punches and kicks when circling to my left.

 

A true switch hitter is going to feel comfortable throwing right or left lead punches as well as right or left lead kicks and that's not easy.  Takes a lot of practice.

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It is marginally easier to be a switch hitter in boxing than it is in MMA.  I am a natural rightie but I can jab and throw power punches equally from traditional or southpaw, but that is just hands and a good boxer knows how to mask his footwork as not to telegraph which hand he favors. 

 

In kick striking arts like Krav Maga however, I still favor my right leg for power kicks.   

 

A true switch hitter is going to feel comfortable throwing right or left lead punches as well as right or left lead kicks and that's not easy.

I'd disagree on one point.  It is easier to be a switch hitter in MMA, because most of these guys have a grappling base, and a grappling stance generally starts with the power foot forward.  For someone like me who learned boxing fundamentals before grappling fundamentals I never really switched feet, but most wrestlers do change it up when they learn to strike.  A lot of them, especially the ones who can get to the UFC level, are very comfortable fighting with either foot in front.

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It is marginally easier to be a switch hitter in boxing than it is in MMA.  I am a natural rightie but I can jab and throw power punches equally from traditional or southpaw, but that is just hands and a good boxer knows how to mask his footwork as not to telegraph which hand he favors. 

 

In kick striking arts like Krav Maga however, I still favor my right leg for power kicks.   

 

A true switch hitter is going to feel comfortable throwing right or left lead punches as well as right or left lead kicks and that's not easy.

I'd disagree on one point.  It is easier to be a switch hitter in MMA, because most of these guys have a grappling base, and a grappling stance generally starts with the power foot forward.  For someone like me who learned boxing fundamentals before grappling fundamentals I never really switched feet, but most wrestlers do change it up when they learn to strike.  A lot of them, especially the ones who can get to the UFC level, are very comfortable fighting with either foot in front.

 

That is for grapplers. In Muay Thai kickboxing, it is harder if you are expected to kick(with power) with both legs. You can switch kick if you want or even teep with front leg, but the power shot will still be the back leg and fighting with the opposite leg feels different regardless even if it is punching.

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Here's the thing. I understand this is a business but nobody with a straight face can say that Rousey deserves a rematch more than Aldo does. I think they should both get a rematch.  Rogan is an idiot for saying Aldo doesn't deserve shit yet he'll hype the fuck out of Ronda.

Yeah, Ronda got knocked out because she didn't know how to close the distance on a superior boxer, Aldo got knocked out while throwing a punch that could have legit knocked his opponent out.  There is a huge difference there.
There's also a huge difference between 13 seconds and 359 seconds.

I've never understood why any losing champion shouldn't automatically get a rematch for the title. Aside from obvious exceptions with injuries or whatever else which would legitimately hinder that from happening, of course. It makes the whole championship feel fixed if some champs get a rematch while others don't. It even makes good sense from a promotional and financial standpoint, you prove that the title switch wasn't a loss (most rematches tend to have the same winner, so you're not at much of a risk of a costly upset).

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If Conor rather than Aldo had gotten injured in July, and they'd done Aldo vs Mendes 3 as the replacement, and Mendes had won (unlikely I know, but go with it), do you really think they'd have rematched that last week instead of giving McGregor first crack at champion Chad?

 

The most high profile Too Easy No Rematch belt exchange was when Bendo lost the lightweight title... although in that case, there were a glut of contenders, and Bendo had been a less than massively entertaining Champ.

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There's also a huge difference between 13 seconds and 359 seconds.

I've never understood why any losing champion shouldn't automatically get a rematch for the title. Aside from obvious exceptions with injuries or whatever else which would legitimately hinder that from happening, of course. It makes the whole championship feel fixed if some champs get a rematch while others don't. It even makes good sense from a promotional and financial standpoint, you prove that the title switch wasn't a loss (most rematches tend to have the same winner, so you're not at much of a risk of a costly upset).

 

 

My thinking on immediate title rematches is there should be a number of set title defences before guaranteeing a rematch. It wouldn't be fair to give guys an automatic rematch with 1 or no title defences, especially in deep divisions where there would be at least a couple guys coming up at the same time as them. It would even set a (minor) acclaim to the 2nd title defense.

 

This would seem the fairest way but then you get into messy situations like medical clearances and injuries and titles held up for a year  and I just don't know if there can be a set rule.

 

I think Aldo deserves a rematch based on precedent set but I'm not sure it's worth a year plus waiting for,..

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It is marginally easier to be a switch hitter in boxing than it is in MMA.  I am a natural rightie but I can jab and throw power punches equally from traditional or southpaw, but that is just hands and a good boxer knows how to mask his footwork as not to telegraph which hand he favors. 

 

In kick striking arts like Krav Maga however, I still favor my right leg for power kicks.   

 

A true switch hitter is going to feel comfortable throwing right or left lead punches as well as right or left lead kicks and that's not easy.

I'd disagree on one point.  It is easier to be a switch hitter in MMA, because most of these guys have a grappling base, and a grappling stance generally starts with the power foot forward.  For someone like me who learned boxing fundamentals before grappling fundamentals I never really switched feet, but most wrestlers do change it up when they learn to strike.  A lot of them, especially the ones who can get to the UFC level, are very comfortable fighting with either foot in front.

 

That is for grapplers. In Muay Thai kickboxing, it is harder if you are expected to kick(with power) with both legs. You can switch kick if you want or even teep with front leg, but the power shot will still be the back leg and fighting with the opposite leg feels different regardless even if it is punching.

 

 

Precisely my experience.  I find myself in Krav Maga practice forcing myself to right more in southpaw and favoring my left leg for power kicks in order to make myself a more fluid fighter and can switch stances at will.  The Tao of Bruce Lee:  put in the effort until it becomes effortless.

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