How happy are you with WWE right now?

[The Nature Boy]

It is corporate commercial shilling with some very simplified formulaic wrestling sprinkled in that has to adhere to the sponsors' wishes. NXT is a flashy, watered down, formulaic idea of indy wrestling appropriated by a giant corporation in order to make money, that waits for people to get super dope outside of WWE then buys them, limits them and puts them in wacky backstage promos where you have a former GHC champion doing slapstick interviews after his 4 minute match. I don't get the attention it gets. I try to get into WWE/NXT from time to time but it's so much easier and satisfying to like, watch some Hashimoto matches on Youtube.

 

I think NXT does a great job of pulling all elements of wrestling together. I can't just watch random Hashimoto matches on YouTube because as a fan, I care about the characters and want to have an emotional investment in what I'm watching. It's the same reason that I can't watch early ROH or any other SUPERINDY where they just throw two indy darlings into a match together. If I wanted to watch random matches with characters that I have no investment in, I'd just watch RAW.

 

My idea of a perfect wrestling company is probably 1980s Jim Crockett Promotions, they had good in-ring action and characters that I could invest in. NXT is probably the closest we have to doing that right now. 

[Jiji]

Good wrestlers can establish strong characters in the ring alone. If you watch a Hashimoto match and don't get an idea of who he was, you got multiple sensory issues.

[The Nature Boy]

Good wrestlers can establish strong characters in the ring alone. If you watch a Hashimoto match and don't get an idea of who he was, you got multiple sensory issues.

 

Hashimoto was probably a bad example but I do think that matches should be the focal point of a story and I should be invested in seeing the two people in the ring doing battle. Very few guys can get their character across to you in the ring. WWE right now is really bad at giving anyone a character that you can invest in. 

 

Part of me blames the half-kayfabe bullshit. When you have wrestlers appearing in character on TV shows and on social media, it's hard to tell a story that exists only within your television program and live events. The social media stuff really bugs me because you have personal and character tweets all mixed together. Either have the social media accounts be all kayfabe or all personal, you can't do both.

[Patrick B.]

From what I understand, we're all just NEKBEERDS who should just shut up, so...oh well.

[JRGoldman]

I think what has become increasingly clear is that the WWE cannot rely on in ring performance alone. They have a roster that is amazing in terms of in ring talent, and most Raws or PPVs there are matches that are very good. Frankly, we are a bit spoiled in that regard. Matches that would have been exclamatory five or seven years ago are very middling by today's standard. That being said, I think in some ways WWE has been hoisted by their own petard with the advent of the WWE Network. I can watch so much wrestling, not even including things like NWAClassics and New Japan, or other wrestling TV. With so much of wrestling history at my finger tips, there is literally no reason for me to not be more discerning and subsequently more critical of what is currently on TV.  

[jstout]

NJPW is trouble for me because so many of the guys seem the same, whether Japanese or Anerican. I love Nakamura and Ishii, and really like Tanahashi and Okada, but I have a harder time with Anderson and Gallows and Fale.

I need personality, a reason to care, and WWE does a bad job of supplying that to the midcarders.

[Zakk_Sabbath]

I think they do a bad job of supplying it to everybody, to be honest with you, it's just worse with the midcarders. And i'm not saying there needs to be "D'Lo causes Terri Runnels to miscarry" levels of midcard angles, but so many of them are just "some guy."  They float in this purgatory where they're just completely stagnant, and everything around them suffers. And another big problem with the midcard guys is the fact that there's no clear upward mobility anymore where it's like Debut--->midcard feud--->Tag title--->upper midcard feud----> IC title---->main event feud---> world title. That formula worked incredibly well for everyone from Shawn Michaels to Bret Hart to Steve Austin to Randy Savage to the Rock etc. Somewhere along the line, they lost that. It became like, welp, let's put the IC on Kofi once every 2 years because his spot is his spot, and lets occasionally rocket a Sheamus or a Roman or ADR right to the top. I'm not saying every guy has to be a champion or work on top with Cena or whatever, but why the hell would anyone invest in any of these characters if they're just going to stop/start push them for 5-7 years, put them on the C-show for a while, and future endeavor them? It's just exhausting at this point.

[Kyuubi]

In my case, I think it is that I just kind of not into wrestling as I used to be or I rather not watch three hours of the shit in one night.

 

Honestly, I really just pick out matches or segments that people tell me were interesting or good and just watch those. I never thought that I would be invested in Diva's wrestling as I am now so at least NXT did that well. Everything else, besides that, Cesaro, Kevin Owens, and...well that's about it. You can try to sell me on Roman Reigns, but I just buy his ability which is kind of a shame because he is pretty good.

 

And then there is the typical set-up on Raw which involves absolute bullshit after bullshit. I hate exasperating segments with no action and when we finally get action, it is mediocre and short. Like, I know it is taboo for Vince, but maybe he should try to make a wrestling show with a little bit more wrestling. You have a three hour show. 40 minutes of it is going to advertising. so you have 140 minutes of a product to watch. 30 minutes of the product is actual wrestling and performances. Everything else is boring and uninteresting set-up with maybe the great segment that comes once every few months. But I have to slog through months of bullshit to get that pearl and it annoys me. It is why I can't wait for Lucha Underground or somewhat follow NJPW.

 

Vince needs to realize that not everybody can be the Rock and captivate the crowd with the mic while displaying basic performances in the ring. In fact, some of the guys he has on the roster should never touch a mic ever(Dolph Ziggler). He probably has the most physically gifted roster that he has ever had and he insists on burying them with giving them a mic and it is fucking annoying.

[Jrag]

Treating wins and losses like wins and losses would go a long way. I hate the direction they went in with Sheamus, but if your going that route why even put him in that SS tag match? There are about 10 guys who could really use that spot.

Instead you end up with Cole saying he needs a new personality while he is eating a pin from some mid card guy. Hell, that would even be OK if they cared about wins and losses. You could get a few weeks of TV out of the SS team getting title opportunities.

The problem is so much bigger than 50/50 booking. Between Sheamus and Rollins, they've found a way to make beating the champ completely meaningless. That seems almost impossible to do on accident, but I can't imagine they would do it on purpose.

[Patrick B.]

I'm pretty sure I burned myself out by trying to watch EVERYTHING in the current era of oversaturation.  The Monday Night Wars ended a long time ago but shows are still booked as if they didn't.

[Jiji]

Treating wins and losses like wins and losses would go along way.  I hate the direction they went in with Sheamus, but if your going that route why even put him in that SS tag match?  There are about 10 guys who could really use that spot.  

 

Instead you end up with Cole saying he needs a new personality while he is eating a pin from some mid card guy.  Hell, that would even be OK if they cared about wins and losses.  You could get a few weeks of TV out of the SS team getting title opportunities.

 

The problem is so much bigger than 50/50 booking.  Between Sheamus and Rollins, they've found a way to make beating the champ completely meaningless.  That seems almost impossible to do on accident, but I can't imagine they would do it on purpose.

Shoot, look at how strong PWG books their champions. I always keep thinking Rushmore are going to lose these big tag matches to set-up a new challenger for Roddy but Roddy almost always wins decisively. He's king shit of fuck mountain. When he eventually does drop a fall in a tag match, it will be a huge, HUGE deal. When he loses the title, it will get a massive fucking pop. I think Summerslam 2013 was the last time I've felt there was that same kind of pop and holy shit moment in a WWE title match. Everybody knew how WM 30 was ending. I guess Brock winning in the fashion he won at Summerslam 2014 was shocking but Cena and Brock are practically the only two guys the company has protected.

[Death From Above]

On about a month back viewing, echoing the theme of "they have workers, the writing is bad".

[SorceressKnight]

Treating wins and losses like wins and losses would go a long way. I hate the direction they went in with Sheamus, but if your going that route why even put him in that SS tag match? There are about 10 guys who could really use that spot.

Instead you end up with Cole saying he needs a new personality while he is eating a pin from some mid card guy. Hell, that would even be OK if they cared about wins and losses. You could get a few weeks of TV out of the SS team getting title opportunities.

The problem is so much bigger than 50/50 booking. Between Sheamus and Rollins, they've found a way to make beating the champ completely meaningless. That seems almost impossible to do on accident, but I can't imagine they would do it on purpose.

 

Yeah, that ties into the biggest problem I have- all during this era, the whole of WWE is built around JUST ONE GUY. Whether it was HHH's Reign of Terror, John Cena, or Roman Reigns now, the whole show is built around that one star in a way wrestling never really was before.

 

Even when fans would sit on their hands for anyone who wasn't Austin/Rock/Hogan before, there was still a sense that everyone on the roster was important. Everyone had something to do, and whatever they were doing was important to them, and in turn important to the show. Everyone had SOMETHING- good, bad, or otherwise, and in turn, if you prefer that person to Austin, Rock, or Hogan, that was perfectly okay because they were also treated as worthwhile.

 

Now, on the other hand, it's clear- you like THE TOP GUY. Everything else is secondary to what they're doing. Even Rollins/Sheamus didn't help, as they made it clear in CM Punk's reign- and made it a plot point when he turned heel- there's the "Being John Cena" championship, and there's the championship that Punk guy wears...so Punk had a cool belt, but Cena's THE CHAMP, even if he's NOT. And as a result- if you don't like that top guy, then you have no place on the sport...and if you want someone else, you have to go all or nothing, because WWE made it clear "You're either in John Cena's SPOT, or you're a worthless jobber." And fans know it'll be the same for Reigns...and even if it's someone they like, they'll be overexposed because it'll be the same for THEM, too.

[JohnnyJ]

I can point a lot of my current dissatisfaction to the period around WM 30. It felt like the fans had won and Bryan would be the center of the promotion. The Shield were killing it. Bray Wyatt and his fam were about to enter the main event and never leave it. Lesnar became the one. Punks. departure had given him the buzz he lost when he became an afterthought. NXT was arriving and Zayn, Bo, Paige and Cesaro were getting their exposure. I had grand, perhaps unrealistic visions of what the next few years would look like.

[Zakk_Sabbath]

Yeah, I agree. I remember the phrase "New 'New Generation'" being thrown around a lot after WM XXX, both here and other places

[The Man Known as Dan]

I can point a lot of my current dissatisfaction to the period around WM 30. It felt like the fans had won and Bryan would be the center of the promotion. The Shield were killing it. Bray Wyatt and his fam were about to enter the main event and never leave it. Lesnar became the one. Punks. departure had given him the buzz he lost when he became an afterthought. NXT was arriving and Zayn, Bo, Paige and Cesaro were getting their exposure. I had grand, perhaps unrealistic visions of what the next few years would look like.

 

 

I'll go ahead and say this is a large part of it. I'll include the entire stretch from Mania 29 (a time when my interest in the E was very low) to Mania 30, which might be the best in ring year in company history and looked like a "this is the company now, and it's gonna be awesome" setup. The SHIELD were on fucking fire, the Wyatts seemed like a legitimate top act, Bryan was amazing, and Cesaro seemed like he was finally on the way to the top of the card and then.....

 

Fuck, everything since then has driven me crazy.

[bink_winkleman]

The matches aren't really that good, though. It's a bunch of 50/50 finisher trading, flippity flops and tests of strength. Give me two slow, unathletic pro wrestlers telling a story over a couple of athletic j-brones playing "This Is Awesome" every damn time.

[JonnyLaw]

I don't think many people have mentioned the ban/restrictions on cheating by the heels that has been mentioned on a few podcasts. If you have heels that can't cheat, combined with 50/50 booking, it is no wonder guys can't really get over. Everyone seems vaguely faceish, other than guys who can shit talk, but then those guys get over anyways.

[Dog]

I've seen an awful lot of cheating in the last few weeks. Rope chokes from Sasha and Stardust, eye rakes from Harper, etc. Wonder if they've come around on that subject.

[Niners Fan in CT]

When you see that nearly two years later after winning the Andre battle royal that Cesaro is no closer to being an important piece on the show...  yeah, they aren't going to do it. Then you have Ambrose and Reigns who were more over two years ago than they are now.

 

I'm all for waiting for shit to play out but it ain't happening.

[Patrick B.]

Honestly, how happy I am with WWE is irrelevant. It's the business side of things that counts.

[The Man Known as Dan]

Honestly, how happy I am with WWE is irrelevant. It's the business side of things that counts.

 

And the ratings are in the tank, so....

[Jenalysis]

One more person you can add to the very unhappy category- Mick Foley.

 

I just saw his facebook rant put up about an hour ago, and he agrees with most of us on what is wrong, and in the comments, said what I've been saying for years- that this wouldn't have been as much as a problem if WCW or even TNA had succeeded.

 

 

 

The matches aren't really that good, though. It's a bunch of 50/50 finisher trading, flippity flops and tests of strength. Give me two slow, unathletic pro wrestlers telling a story over a couple of athletic j-brones playing "This Is Awesome" every damn time.

 

Despite ROH having some of the same issues, and despite having inferior ring-work to NXT, I just enjoy the product more because it has more diversity and unpredictability, while still maintaining some logic.  I can understand why a few guys stay there.

[odessasteps]

I would give anything to see Luke Harper at home. I want to believe he's the guy who bought the janitor from Scrubs squirell army.

As opposed to the guy who worked in a library and never wore jeans until the Big Rig gimmick?

[odessasteps]

I've seen an awful lot of cheating in the last few weeks. Rope chokes from Sasha and Stardust, eye rakes from Harper, etc. Wonder if they've come around on that subject.

They said on the Austin pod that Paige blatantly pulled the tights to win on raw, but the announcers never mentioned it.