[POLL] 2016 DVDVR MLB HALL OF FAME BALLOT

[Niners Fan in CT]

As unlikable as Bonds might be for some the baseball writers are every bit as unlikable probably more. And don't get me started on the Feds who wasted millions of dollars and proved NOTHING.

[Cristobal]

So with 20 votes in, currently getting into the DVDVRMLBHOF would be Bagwell, Bonds, Clemens, Griffey, and Raines.

[Niners Fan in CT]

I voted for all of them plus Walker, Piazza and Crime Dog because I love Crime Dog. He'll never get in.

[gatling]

Bagwell, Bonds, Clemens, Griffey, McGwire, Mussina, Raines, Schilling, Trammell, Walker

 

I somehow missed Piazza, I guess I would have bumped McGwire for him.  Edgar was the odd man out here and a tough cut but I do believe he deserves to go in as well.

[grilledcheese]

 

 

 

I despise Barry Bonds, but that dude could fucking play, man. Even with all the steroid hullabaloo, that dude was well on his way to Cooperstown before all of that nonsense.

 

 

 

We don't even know that there was a "before".  Barry says he never used anything except when he was duped by adulterated flaxseed oil.

 

 

At the very least, the failed test for amphetamines disputes the "I never used anything" claim. It doesn't speak to steroid use obviously, but it shows that he might not be the most trustworthy source.

[RIPPA]

So that two people who "missed" Piazza

[Tabe]

Regarding Barry, lots of folks point to the McGwire/Sosa show in 1998 as motivating Barry to get on the roids. A lot of other people point to his signing with SF and his subsequent monster year as being the start of it.

[Nice Guy Eddie]

My picks: Bagwell, Bonds, Clemens, Griffey, Jeff Kent, Edgar Martinez, Mussina, Piazza, Raines, Trammell

I also couldn't vote for Hoffman or Wagner before Mariano goes in.

Piazza and Bagwell should be in already. I hate that suspicion has kept them out.

I hate Barry Bonds. He was a grade A asshole and he most likely was a ped user, but he was HOF'er before he used anything.

Same with Clemens, but I cut Roger slack due to his Yankee years.

Jeff Kent is iffy, but I voted for him. All time homerun leader for 2B, only 2B to have 100 RBI 6 straight years, 2000 NL MVP, finished top 10 in MVP voting three other times, five time All-Star

[Phantom Lord]

I voted for Bagwell, Clemens, Griffey, Hoffman, Kent, Martinez, McGriff, Piazza, Raines, Schilling.

 

It has to be a given that anyone who played from 1985 to 2004 was on some sort of PED. I mean there's there's stories about club houses having coffee cans full of amphetamine's that guys would pop like candy. I was on the fence about McGwire. He was on pace for 500 home runs even if the chase for 61 didn't happen with him and Sosa.

 

I can't vote for Bonds because his steroid use was so blatant. I mean you can see the physical change went through when he started doing them. By the end of his record hr season, he just trying for moon shots if he wasn't being walked.

 

Anyway I think my ten are a pretty good representation of guys who deserve to be regardless of what might have tainted their career or if they didn't win anything.

[Cristobal]

Except for the part about you leaving off the one guy on there in the GOAT conversation.

[Niners Fan in CT]

Bonds wasn't just trying for moon shots he was hitting every ball he took a swing at out of the park (when he actually had a pitch to hit) and sorry but steroids doesn't do that. Steroids doesn't turn an average player or even a good player into a superhuman.  Maybe Sosa.

 

Who else had .800 slugging and .500 on-base percentages? Nobody.

 

The '93 with the Giants 'starting point' wouldn't make any sense to me.  Bonds was a 2-time MVP in Pittsburgh and his '93 season wasn't much ahead of what he did in '92. In 1992 Bonds played in 140 games and had virtually identical OPS and OPS+  as he did the following year. The only difference is Bonds played in 159 games in '93.

[Ryan]

I miss Pizza, oh there it is. *eats some* If someone doesn't vote in Junior Griffey they should be banhammered for life, even a mod.

[OSJ]

 

Bags, Bonds, Griffey, 'Gar, Big Mac, Piazza, Rock, Trammell, Lee Smith, & the Crime Dog.

 

I don't dispute Roger Clemens belongs, but I hate the guy almost as much as I hate Schilling, so I ain't going to help his induction one bit

 

My thinking is that it's too late to punish or change the guy.  He is a natural asshole and that's an unshakable inner truth.  And it's not like getting in will give him much pleasure anyway as nothing does.   He will be just as miserable a guy the day after as the day before.

 

But 50 years form now his name should be known by kids who are baseball nerds.

 

 

Very well said! I must admit to taking a certain amount of pleasure in seeing what a joyless, miserable fuck Clemens is. In a HOF that has room for the sociopath Ty Cobb, KKK member Tris Speaker, and generally nasty and vicious Rogers Hornsby, there's certainly room for Roger Clemens. 

[OSJ]

 

When you say that you "re-evaluated" Sosa and 'Gar, what conclusions did you come to? Some of this was easy, as a kid I saw Mantle, Mays and Aaron and Ken Griffey jr. is the best OF I've ever seen. As far as a pure hitter, George Brett was awesome, but if the game is on the line and a hit is needed to drive in the winning run, I want Edgar Martinez at the plate.

With Sosa, I took another look at his OPS and OPS+ and decided they weren't quite good enough.

With Edgar, I took another look in light of the discussions I've been having regarding the closer position. Decided that Edgar wasn't quite dominant enough given the limited position he played and that his career numbers aren't quite high enough. I might feel different about that in 20 minutes. For now, Edgar is probably my "you must be this high" guy for getting into the HOF. Better than Edgar? In ya go.

 

 

Well, I'll admit that being from Seattle and seeing Edgar play pretty frequently I do have a certain amount of prejudice. If he'd been called up when he should have been (two-three years earlier) his career numbers would make him a no-brainer. We can't go by could have been numbers, but as a DH 'Gar was far better than anyone else during the time he played and while Molitor has the gaudier stats, there's no way that you can convince me that he was in any way superior to 'Gar except for speed.I'll admit that 'Gar is probably the slowest Hispanic man I've ever seen play MLB, yet despite that, he was the dominant player at his position during the time he played. If you roll out the Keltner List on 'Gar the conclusion is that he was an elite player despite the fact that he played a limited position. If we're going to acknowledge closers as a position, we have to acknowledge the DH, and 'Gar was perhaps the best ever at that position.

[Tabe]

Yeah, but *I* barely acknowledge closers as a position

[Hail Sabin]

Voted for Bagwell, Bonds, Clemens, Griffey, Edmonds, Hoffman, Raines, Piazza, Mcgwire and Edgar

[Kyle Casey]

I voted for: Bagwell, Bonds, Clemens, Griffey, Hoffman, Edgar, Piazza, Raines, Schilling, and Trammell

 

I'm one of those that's in the "Fuck Bonds/Clemens" camp, but you really can't deny what they accomplished. Basically, they both had HOF careers before their alleged (actual, because we all know they did it) PED use started, so to deny them is foolish.

 

And fuck Curt Schilling too, especially after the last few months. That said, he's one of the best post-season pitchers ever, and he gets a lifetime pass for his role in the 2004 Red Sox.

 

I think the notion that Hoffman shouldn't get in before Mariano is ridiculous. Hoffman's career ended a couple years before Mariano's, so he's eligible now. Denying him the spot he's earned in the Hall because the one guy at his position who was better isn't eligible yet seems dumb to me.

 

Everyone else is pretty much a no-brainer.

[OSJ]

Kyle: I don't think it's so much that Mariano should get in before Hoffman as it is that the difference between the two is like comparing Ted Williams and Norm Cash. One was a very good player with a couple of fantastic seasons, the other is in the discussion for GOAT. Don't get me wrong, I liked Hofman a lot, I just don't see that he was a HOF caliber player at his position. When you factor in park adjustments his numbers should have been much, much better. 

[The Man Known as Dan]

I voted Bagwell, Griffey, Hoffman, Martinez, McGriff, Piazza, Raines, Sheffield, and Trammell. I found myself caught up in the "make sure these guys stay on the ballet" mindset which is silly cause it didn't matter. So yeah, voted pet projects, probably kinda dumb.

[OSJ]

I see that someone voted for Mike Lowell, that's just precious.

[Dolfan in NYC]

I'M A MEMBER OF THE BBWAA, I GET TO VOTE FOR WHOEVER I WANT!

 

NO, YOU SHUT UP!

[Joe Lucia]

Since this got lost in the other HOF thread, the Tracker is up already.

 

One writer voted for Garret Anderson and Jim Edmonds. At least he voted for Raines too...

[RIPPA]

I am assuming that person covers LAA

[Tabe]

I don't have a problem with a vote for Jim Edmonds. Absolutely elite defensive CF - one of the best of all-time - who won 8 Gold Gloves. 393 homers, including a pair of 40-homer seasons. Career OPS+ of 132 - higher than Sammy Sosa - and nearly as high as Ken Griffey Jr. He's a helluva lot better candidate than Trevor Hoffman, that's for sure. Probably better than Tim Raines, too.

[elizium]

I don't have a problem with a vote for Jim Edmonds. Absolutely elite defensive CF - one of the best of all-time - who won 8 Gold Gloves. 393 homers, including a pair of 40-homer seasons. Career OPS+ of 132 - higher than Sammy Sosa - and nearly as high as Ken Griffey Jr. He's a helluva lot better candidate than Trevor Hoffman, that's for sure. Probably better than Tim Raines, too.

 

I was with you, up until that last ridiculous line. Tim Raines was the best player in the entire NL during the 80s. Best base stealer ever too (notice I didn't say most steals).

 

Edmonds made my final cut with Walker and McGwire, I hope he gets some good support.