Jump to content
DVDVR Message Board

Justifying Heel Actions


Thomas Bugg
 Share

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, TerjeRUN said:

I can't remember why he turned heel in 2006? I remember it being a great little run, but can't remember how it started? I remember it ending with Melina kicking him in the balls. 

I think it was at least in part out of respect to Edge for beating him in a hardcore match at WM 22. I remember Foley presenting Edge with the old Hardcore championship belt.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just looked it up in Hardcore Diaries (and holy shit, Foley talks WAY too much about the divas in that book) - Foley turned heel because when he was honored as a hardcore legend in MSG, Terry Funk wanted too much money to appear on the show, which was a shoot.

Speaking as someone that went from referee to manager, I was happy that throughout all of that and my managing career, I was able to find legitimate justifications for pretty much all of my actions as a heel.  It might've been convoluted and hanging by a thread at times, but legitimate nonetheless.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

From the other "sympathetic heels" thread and bumping to separate them: 

The last posts realized a good recent one: Batista turning heel on the road to Wrestlemania.

Batista got to come back- he wanted the title all along. He never denied anything beyond that- the guy just wants to be World Champion and always has been. He won the Royal Rumble...but at the same time, it's not HIS fault the fans preferred Daniel Bryan over him and wanted him to be World Champion. Batista didn't exactly go to HHH and tell him not to put Bryan in the Rumble so he could win, he didn't beat down Bryan so he couldn't be in the Rumble...he just was entered into the Rumble match and happened to win the match, but fans wanted someone else instead and turned on him solely because he wasn't the guy they wanted.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 10/21/2016 at 1:09 AM, SorceressKnight said:

From the other "sympathetic heels" thread and bumping to separate them: 

The last posts realized a good recent one: Batista turning heel on the road to Wrestlemania.

Batista got to come back- he wanted the title all along. He never denied anything beyond that- the guy just wants to be World Champion and always has been. He won the Royal Rumble...but at the same time, it's not HIS fault the fans preferred Daniel Bryan over him and wanted him to be World Champion. Batista didn't exactly go to HHH and tell him not to put Bryan in the Rumble so he could win, he didn't beat down Bryan so he couldn't be in the Rumble...he just was entered into the Rumble match and happened to win the match, but fans wanted someone else instead and turned on him solely because he wasn't the guy they wanted.

Damn, I didn't even think of it that way! And come to think of it, he never got a one on one match for the belt either, and a Bryan-Bats match would've been at least different and interesting.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

We were ripped off by Whatculture.

He takes the "Hogan had it coming," side of the Mega Power's feud.

I have no idea how I slept on DIE ROCKY DIE and the birth of the NOD.  I totally supported The Rock during his racial awakening.

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Fellas I hope you glued your nips back on because I got a story. 

Its 1991 and you are the most famous wrestler in the world. But you are growing tired. You are dogged by unfair accusations of steroid abuse. You have defended your country in a savage war with an Iraqi turncoat. You prepare for future wars with a platinum blond pretender and an undead creature. 

You want to expand your horizons but you can't abandon your post. So you seek a successor. So you find a young bumpkin from a bush league wrestling promotion. 

You train him, you refine his skills, you try to teach him loyalty. 

Now in a two month span you are cheated out of your world title twice. A on the take president puts your belt up for grabs in a flipping battle royal!!!! Your protege is in the match. You fully expect to face him in the end. But what does that ungrateful redneck hayseed do? He ambushes you like a coward and throws you out. 

Now you tell me, would you not have tossed that ingrate Sid Justice from the 1992 Royal Rumble?

I do respect Sid for crushing Goldberg and ending the streak. But he was wrong here.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wasn't Sid's fault that Hogan didn't kick out after that one particular Tombstone, setting up the title vacation in the first place.

Wasn't Sid's fault that Hogan didn't eliminate more folks with his vast array of back rakes and finger wags.

Hulkster was so Petty then, his theme music could've been changed to You Got Lucky, or Don't Come Around Here No More, Brother.

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, zev said:

Wasn't Sid's fault that Hogan didn't kick out after that one particular Tombstone, setting up the title vacation in the first place.

Wasn't Sid's fault that Hogan didn't eliminate more folks with his vast array of back rakes and finger wags.

Hulkster was so Petty then, his theme music could've been changed to You Got Lucky, or Don't Come Around Here No More, Brother.

 

Hulk was cheated at Survivor Series. Tombstoned on a chair placed in the ring by a third party. 

He outright pinned Taker a week later and that bum Tunney robbed him. 

As I remember Hogan eliminated a bunch of guys from the Rumble, including Sid. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Victator said:

Hulk was cheated at Survivor Series. Tombstoned on a chair placed in the ring by a third party. 

 

Said Tombstone is the ultimate example of when it comes crashing down and it hurts inside. Not Sid's fault that Hogan didn't kick out at 2 and prove once and for all that training, prayers, and vitamins really do work for Real Americans.

 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, zev said:

Said Tombstone is the ultimate example of when it comes crashing down and it hurts inside. Not Sid's fault that Hogan didn't kick out at 2 and prove once and for all that training, prayers, and vitamins really do work for Real Americans.

 

He is still human fighting an inhuman foe. Hulk should have known Sid was an ingrate hayseed when he did not help him. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

Nowadays the penultimate example of a justified heel is Rusev. Somebody tell me how this man is the bad guy in his feud with Enzo Amore. If some bird-looking clown flashed his junk in front of your wife, then made jokes about it, what man wouldn't want to break his neck on site?

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 12/13/2016 at 1:10 AM, Victator said:

He outright pinned Taker a week later and that bum Tunney robbed him. 

Hogan used a steel chair, the urn and the CONTENTS of said urn to beat Undertaker, AND he might've held the pants on the pinfall, too.  Hogan cheated worse than Undertaker, that's why it was vacated.

Hogan says a million times in promos that it's Every Man For Himself and There Are No Friends In The Royal Rumble, but someone finally turns it on him, and he changes the course of wrestling history.  Fuck that guy.

  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Michael Sweetser said:

Hogan used a steel chair, the urn and the CONTENTS of said urn to beat Undertaker, AND he might've held the pants on the pinfall, too.  Hogan cheated worse than Undertaker, that's why it was vacated.

Hogan says a million times in promos that it's Every Man For Himself and There Are No Friends In The Royal Rumble, but someone finally turns it on him, and he changes the course of wrestling history.  Fuck that guy.

This was a week after Undertaker used Flair and a chair on him. The Tuesday match was shaking up the same way. Hogan did not introduce any of those elements into the rematch. He was playing by the rules chosen by Undertaker/ 

Sid was an ungrateful bumpkin who feared the power of Hulkamania and knew his only shot of winning was to back stab Hogan. Unfortunately for him he picked a bad time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Victator said:

This was a week after Undertaker used Flair and a chair on him. The Tuesday match was shaking up the same way. Hogan did not introduce any of those elements into the rematch. He was playing by the rules chosen by Undertaker/ 

Sid was an ungrateful bumpkin who feared the power of Hulkamania and knew his only shot of winning was to back stab Hogan. Unfortunately for him he picked a bad time.

"Playing by the rules chosen by Undertaker" means he's still being a twat.  He's not justified in being an asshole to Sid just because Undertaker was an asshole to him.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, but Hogan had a history of eliminating his friends/allies from the Rumble. He eliminated Randy Savage in 1989 under the guise of accidentally taking him out while trying to dump Bad News Brown, and he was responsible for the Ultimate Warrior getting tossed in 1990 by clotheslining Rick Rude and Barbarian from behind while they were trying to eliminate Warrior. On top of that, he eliminated people you'd think he'd get along with (under the pretense of All Good Guys Are Friends from mid-1980s to mid-1990s WWF). He dumped Koko B. Ware in 1989, as well as Bushwhacker Luke. He threw out Jimmy Snuka in 1990. He eliminated Tugboat in 1991. Tugboat was the guy who started the Get Well Hulk campaign, and how does he get thanked in the Rumble? Hogan goes across the ring and starts punching him in the corner!

Title or not, if you're Sid Justice, and you know Hulk Hogan has that kind of a history in the Royal Rumble, where he has eliminated six of his friends over the last three years, and the WWF title is on the line to boot? You know full well he'd do the same to you, so you better do it to him first.

  • Like 8
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, KDWI said:

Yeah, but Hogan had a history of eliminating his friends/allies from the Rumble. He eliminated Randy Savage in 1989 under the guise of accidentally taking him out while trying to dump Bad News Brown, and he was responsible for the Ultimate Warrior getting tossed in 1990 by clotheslining Rick Rude and Barbarian from behind while they were trying to eliminate Warrior. On top of that, he eliminated people you'd think he'd get along with (under the pretense of All Good Guys Are Friends from mid-1980s to mid-1990s WWF). He dumped Koko B. Ware in 1989, as well as Bushwhacker Luke. He threw out Jimmy Snuka in 1990. He eliminated Tugboat in 1991. Tugboat was the guy who started the Get Well Hulk campaign, and how does he get thanked in the Rumble? Hogan goes across the ring and starts punching him in the corner!

Title or not, if you're Sid Justice, and you know Hulk Hogan has that kind of a history in the Royal Rumble, where he has eliminated six of his friends over the last three years, and the WWF title is on the line to boot? You know full well he'd do the same to you, so you better do it to him first.

You are not wrong on this and is a fair argument.

But let me add this, 

1. He had plausible deniability about Savage. Bad News was a clear and present threat. Also there was already tension here. Savage had weeks earlier allowed to fat guys to beat the tar out of Hulk after Hogan had spent months helping him. Including getting the WWF title for him. So I think he gets a mulligan,

2. Hogan and Warrior had been fighting head on for a bit, He also seemed to be targeting Rude and Barbarian. 

3, I think he attacked all of these gentlemen directly. No sneak attacks. Thought he could have done more for Tugboat. 

So I think you made a good argument for Sid. Who I admire from his tenure leading the Stud Stable to his heroic return slapping around Heath Slater. Sid was overcome by lust for the title. 

But can we not say Hogan is human and let his temper get the better of him?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Half of Hulkster's offense was illegal closed fists and back rakes. Maybe Sid was just standing up for all the referees that Hogan was so dismissive of during his title reigns.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Victator said:

You are not wrong on this and is a fair argument.

But let me add this, 

1. He had plausible deniability about Savage. Bad News was a clear and present threat. Also there was already tension here. Savage had weeks earlier allowed to fat guys to beat the tar out of Hulk after Hogan had spent months helping him. Including getting the WWF title for him. So I think he gets a mulligan,

2. Hogan and Warrior had been fighting head on for a bit, He also seemed to be targeting Rude and Barbarian. 

3, I think he attacked all of these gentlemen directly. No sneak attacks. Thought he could have done more for Tugboat. 

So I think you made a good argument for Sid. Who I admire from his tenure leading the Stud Stable to his heroic return slapping around Heath Slater. Sid was overcome by lust for the title. 

But can we not say Hogan is human and let his temper get the better of him?

Doesn't change the same fact. All of that- everything that happened beforehand? All noise.

It really all boiled down to: Sid and Hogan were both fighting, in the same match, with the WWF Title on the line.

What was Sid supposed to do- clear everyone out and politely bow to Hogan, then step over the top rope and eliminate himself so Hogan could get the title back? That'd be a more evil act than anything else- it'd be tantamount to what Andre did to sell the belt to Ted DiBiase four years before.

The match was always sold as "Every man for himself, Last man gets the WWF Title." Sid and Hogan were in the same match- so Sid did absolutely nothing wrong by actually trying to win the match and win the title himself.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, zev said:

Half of Hulkster's offense was illegal closed fists and back rakes. Maybe Sid was just standing up for all the referees that Hogan was so dismissive of during his title reigns.

Eye rakes as well

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...