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OCTOBER 2015 WRESTLING DISCUSSION


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1. Money

2. Significant other has important and increasing role in company

3. Useful for PR even if booked crappily

Im no wwf fan, but i dont know quick i would willingly give up job security because of a bad push.

I've thought about all of that, and you may be right. But I wonder, is Cesaro the kind of guy who would be satisfied with all that? On some level, he has to know how good he is. I dunno about you, but if I had that much talent as a wrestler, I'd want to make sure I took every opportunity I had to showcase it. Can't do that jobbing on Superstars every week. And as far as job security is concerned, he has to realize how in demand he would be as a free agent. I mean, look at AJ Styles.

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There is no right answer. Some people do it for the money, some people do it to be the best. It is not my or anyone else's role to tell someone what to do. Follow my word...Or your word...Take a right turn, or follow the straight path. Just walk in a circle.

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I feel like Vince doesn't really believe that a wrestler can connect with fans solely through work, which is odd because more guys in his company are wrestling like WWE is now a workrate promotion and some, like Rollins, are getting over with the fans because of it. 

 

In that one way, WWE fans are becoming like old-school WCW fans, in that if you work in the way they like, you'll get over with them even if you can't cut it on the mic. 

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- Final question was on Gabe Sapolsky and the relationship there between Dragon Gate USA & Evolve, specifically Johnny Gargano's recent appearance, and whether they are a feeder system for NXT. HHH says he sees all of it as a feeder system, he really like what they do, and wants to support their shows. He said if he didn't have room at the P.C. for talent and wanted them to get additional work, he'd send them to Gabe. He said the indie undercurrents are healthy for the business, and would do anything he could for them.

HHH, shit on by the internet for years, actively trying to help the indies...weird.

I'm not saying you are or aren't doing this, but why do people say stuff like this as if it's some kind of evidence that people's past opinions were wrong?

I mean yeah, obvious caveat that we don't really know what goes on behind the scenes let alone in Vince's head, but how does NXT being awesome change the fact that Triple H's 20 minute promos were boring as shit, and that far too many of his matches were paint-by-numbers repetitive?

How does NXT's stellar booking invalidate opinions about how HHH was booked a decade ago? Is it not highly probable that his priorities as a booker are different than when he was wrestling?

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I'm not saying you are or aren't doing this, but why do people say stuff like this as if it's some kind of evidence that people's past opinions were wrong?

I mean yeah, obvious caveat that we don't really know what goes on behind the scenes let alone in Vince's head, but how does NXT being awesome change the fact that Triple H's 20 minute promos were boring as shit, and that far too many of his matches were paint-by-numbers repetitive?

How does NXT's stellar booking invalidate opinions about how HHH was booked a decade ago? Is it not highly probable that his priorities as a booker are different than when he was wrestling?

 

I think what sklba was pointing at here wasn't anything about Triple H's ring abilities, which were honestly a minor facet in most internet criticism of him, it was about Triple H the politician, keeping indie darlings down, burying guys on TV and putting himself over every one else.  Triple H was the John Cena of his time.  Super over with the crowd, generally put on decent matches on big stages, hated by the internet who positioned him as a pro wrestling boogeyman (Not The Boogeyman) so that every time a wrestler who was beloved on the internet (Chris Benoit, Chris Jericho, Rey Mysterio) didn't get the push/get over, it was because Triple H thought he upstaged him, Triple H thought he didn't have it, Triple H buried him backstage to Vince.  That's what's so ironic about Triple H putting over the indies and booking the most well-liked American wrestling show, because he was seen as the antithesis of these things for so many years.  It's not a a commentary on his wrestling ability.

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Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe is set to retain close allies in key posts in a cabinet reshuffle on Wednesday, playing it safe as he refocuses on the economy after enacting divisive security legislation that dented his popularity.

 

(..)

 

Hiroshi Hase, a former professional wrestler, will replace Hakubun Shimomura as education minister, media reported.

 

Shimomura had said he would stand down over missteps that forced the scrapping of plans for a new national stadium as the centerpiece of the Tokyo 2020 Olympics

 

Source

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I'm not saying you are or aren't doing this, but why do people say stuff like this as if it's some kind of evidence that people's past opinions were wrong?

I mean yeah, obvious caveat that we don't really know what goes on behind the scenes let alone in Vince's head, but how does NXT being awesome change the fact that Triple H's 20 minute promos were boring as shit, and that far too many of his matches were paint-by-numbers repetitive?

How does NXT's stellar booking invalidate opinions about how HHH was booked a decade ago? Is it not highly probable that his priorities as a booker are different than when he was wrestling?

I think what sklba was pointing at here wasn't anything about Triple H's ring abilities, which were honestly a minor facet in most internet criticism of him, it was about Triple H the politician, keeping indie darlings down, burying guys on TV and putting himself over every one else. Triple H was the John Cena of his time. Super over with the crowd, generally put on decent matches on big stages, hated by the internet who positioned him as a pro wrestling boogeyman (Not The Boogeyman) so that every time a wrestler who was beloved on the internet (Chris Benoit, Chris Jericho, Rey Mysterio) didn't get the push/get over, it was because Triple H thought he upstaged him, Triple H thought he didn't have it, Triple H buried him backstage to Vince. That's what's so ironic about Triple H putting over the indies and booking the most well-liked American wrestling show, because he was seen as the antithesis of these things for so many years. It's not a a commentary on his wrestling ability.

You kinda missed the point. I was attempting to say that there's been a tendency to dismiss the impression of HHH that you describe because of NXT.

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I'm not saying you are or aren't doing this, but why do people say stuff like this as if it's some kind of evidence that people's past opinions were wrong?

I mean yeah, obvious caveat that we don't really know what goes on behind the scenes let alone in Vince's head, but how does NXT being awesome change the fact that Triple H's 20 minute promos were boring as shit, and that far too many of his matches were paint-by-numbers repetitive?

How does NXT's stellar booking invalidate opinions about how HHH was booked a decade ago? Is it not highly probable that his priorities as a booker are different than when he was wrestling?

I think what sklba was pointing at here wasn't anything about Triple H's ring abilities, which were honestly a minor facet in most internet criticism of him, it was about Triple H the politician, keeping indie darlings down, burying guys on TV and putting himself over every one else. Triple H was the John Cena of his time. Super over with the crowd, generally put on decent matches on big stages, hated by the internet who positioned him as a pro wrestling boogeyman (Not The Boogeyman) so that every time a wrestler who was beloved on the internet (Chris Benoit, Chris Jericho, Rey Mysterio) didn't get the push/get over, it was because Triple H thought he upstaged him, Triple H thought he didn't have it, Triple H buried him backstage to Vince. That's what's so ironic about Triple H putting over the indies and booking the most well-liked American wrestling show, because he was seen as the antithesis of these things for so many years. It's not a a commentary on his wrestling ability.

You kinda missed the point. I was attempting to say that there's been a tendency to dismiss the impression of HHH that you describe because of NXT.

 

 

Part of accepting HHH's reputation during that "reign of terror" as being a problem while NXT is so awesome is also realizing, in all likeliness, it WAS HHH's being unpopular during that reign which probably directly caused how NXT's become so great in the first place.

 

Whether you liked or hated Triple H during his run at the top- thought he was a politician, thought he was boring in the ring and on the mic, thought he held back everyone during his reign at the top, it was always known as well that Triple H was a huge wrestling geek, did care about his place in the history of pro wrestling (arguably TOO MUCH), and was devoted to trying to become the greatest of all time. However, during his reign as the top heel in the business for most of the early 2000s, he was utterly despised because of all of those things- not even just because the fans "loved to hate Triple H", but because they truly hated Paul Levesque, the person, for all of those problems- and the "he held back all these great talents and buried them" was a big reason for this.

 

It's clear HHH is aware of his reputation, and he's even said it as such...yet the people who don't accept NXT's awesomeness as redeeming Triple H for the reign of terror neglect to realize that Triple H had the perfect view of how the business had changed in the 2000s. He saw that the business was changing and knew exactly what people want in the 21st century from top wrestlers, because he was seeing how people despised him for being a classic wrestler and how they longed for him to step aside in favor of this more workrate-friendly, more indy-influenced generation. 

 

Of course HHH's reign of terror makes sense- as the top guy, he saw exactly what the fans wanted for years that he wasn't giving them as a performer. Now, as an executive, he knows exactly what the fans told him for so long they wanted, and he's able to use that experience to give the fans exactly what they've asked for all this time. 

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At this point I almost wish they would just send Cesaro back down the NXT. Let him be the gate keeper for who ever is going to feud with the NXT champion. The WWE is so crazy I can honestly belive the accent joke from a couple pages back. The problem is not that Cesaro got over with fans...but that he did and they didn't want him to. There used to be a time when McMahon would be all for something organic like that. But now it goes against the machine and he doesn't want that. Cesaro is a much more talented Zack Ryder in their eyes.

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I made bad Hasbro decisions

Opened Andre

Had Dusty in my hands, got Piper instead

I'll do you one better - I had Andre and traded him for Crush and Smash (with masks which was the deal breaker)

The Demo Crush with mask is tougher to find these days than an Andre.

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Minor change to the topic. As someone who loves card games, has anyone played any of the Filsinger Games wrestling games? Been wondering if I should give them a try but not sure if they are any good.

I had a blast with them too when I was much younger. I've even thought about buying the sets again.

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He pulled it down since but Cesaro had a photo on his Instagram account where one of the hashtags was #notacloser. There were a few other hashtags I can't recall off the top of my head but it did strike me as odd since he's usually pretty upbeat regardless of how he's been booked. I guess despite how grateful I imagine he is, everybody has a breaking point and I don't blame him for finally reaching his.

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I remember when Claudio worked an indie show in my area several years ago.  He had a sign on his merch table saying that he'd sign an 8x10 for free if the person bought him coffee(Starbucks, I think).  Someone actually did and he honored his promise.  Wish I'd had more of a chance to talk to him.

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