Matt D Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 I have some concerns with Flash. On the one hand, it's a heroic sacrifice to go back in time, save your mother, and then make the conscious decision to undo that for the sake of the timeline/world/etc. On the other hand, it's not. At the end of the day, instead of using every resource at your disposal to find a third option, which is the basic definition of superheroism instead of just heroism, I think, you're doing everything in your power to make sure that your mother gets murdered horrifically. I get that there are hard decisions, but I don't think that fit the tone of the Flash show. I understand it's part of Barry's growth and maturity or whatever else. But you can't step back from that. Even if he saved the day later, he made this decision, sacrificing someone else in a terrible way to fix his mistake. (And it didn't even work right, which makes it worse). It could be season 8, lots of triumphs and failures later and Barry's still going to be that guy who made sure his mother got killed horribly because he was a fuck up who couldn't figure out another way. Ollie can kind of get away with that weight but it diminishes the charm of the show for Barry to be carrying it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NikoBaltimore Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 When Barry went back in time at the end of last season all I could think was "Barry, you fucking dumbass" I'm on board for seeing how he finds a way to fix this, but it's hard to fully sympathize with him. Maybe he should have instead considered a support group similar to what Cisco was in instead of trying to mess with time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eivion Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 Remember that Cisco used a support group only because he can't go back in time. He wanted tot do so and was pushing Barry to do it so not the best example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unholy Dragon Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 I like the idea that "You can't just keep getting do overs." but the more they go back to that point, the dumber it gets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 Even if they had some more indirect way of getting back to this point. I'm not sure what that would be exactly. Maybe if they showed Barry in the Speed Force agreeing to undo what he did and it all just magically happened to undo (mostly). As it was, we went back to the night and saw her about to die, about to get saved, and then about to die again and it was just the wrong thing to focus on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NikoBaltimore Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 19 hours ago, Eivion said: Remember that Cisco used a support group only because he can't go back in time. He wanted tot do so and was pushing Barry to do it so not the best example. I...don't remember that. If it was in early to mid season 1 I didn't watch it. I just jumped in a little past halfway and have been watching since. Either that or if it happened while I was watching then hot damn my memory sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Hanger Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 It was on this week's ep, and only mentioned for like 2 sentences. Remember, Dante wasn't dead til after the Flashpoint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NikoBaltimore Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 On 10/13/2016 at 1:28 PM, Eivion said: Remember that Cisco used a support group only because he can't go back in time. He wanted tot do so and was pushing Barry to do it so not the best example. So, I guess I should mention I wasn't much in the episode yet when I said that. Didn't realize that would be brought up later on, so my apologies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eivion Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 Ah, that makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unholy Dragon Posted October 15, 2016 Share Posted October 15, 2016 I think of all the Flashpoint retcons, my favourite is that Iron Heights is full on a supervillain prison now rather than them locking dudes up in cubes in their basement that didn't really have a place for people to eat or use the washroom and generally looked like sci-fi isolation torture. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eivion Posted October 15, 2016 Share Posted October 15, 2016 Once meta humans were recognized on the large it made sense for an actual prison to exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Hanger Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 On 9/13/2016 at 8:21 AM, The Unholy Dragon said: Posting this to get rid of the quote box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Hanger Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 Just so we're all on the right page, am I right in remembering that Cisco and Ray treated it as a big deal in Arrow S3 that Deathbolt was a meta who couldn't have been in Central the night of the dark matter storm, but they STILL haven't explained it? Like, all the metas in Flash S2/Arrow S4 were either storm victims or crossed a dimension bridge that didn't exist until the Flash S1 finale, and now we've got Husks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianS81177 Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 So just to make sure I haven't missed anything, these are all the Flashpoint retcons, right? Diggle has a son now instead of a daughter Cisco's brother is dead Malfoy works at CCPD now Caitlin now has her Killer Frost powers Iron Heights is now a Meta prison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Hanger Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 Iris cut Joe out of her life for a year or more because he'd told her her mom died. And Alchemy suddenly exists and Edward Clariss remembers the other timeline, which may not count as "retcons" but are certainly "changes" created by the Flashpoint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianS81177 Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 9 minutes ago, Cliff Hanger said: Hide contents Iris cut Joe out of her life for a year or more because he'd told her her mom died. And Alchemy suddenly exists and Edward Clariss remembers the other timeline, which may not count as "retcons" but are certainly "changes" created by the Flashpoint. I didn't put the Iris/Joe thing because by the end of the episode they were back to how they were before. I don't remember Alchemy and Clariss ever being shown before Flashpoint, so thats why I didn't include them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eivion Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 2 hours ago, Cliff Hanger said: Just so we're all on the right page, am I right in remembering that Cisco and Ray treated it as a big deal in Arrow S3 that Deathbolt was a meta who couldn't have been in Central the night of the dark matter storm, but they STILL haven't explained it? Like, all the metas in Flash S2/Arrow S4 were either storm victims or crossed a dimension bridge that didn't exist until the Flash S1 finale, and now we've got Husks? Saying it was treated as a big deal would be a bit much, but you are remembering correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Hanger Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 I guess I expect anything used as a stinger to be important later. One more for the changes list: Cisco has gloves that let him use his powers like the comic book version, and has had at least a little experience going in the field as Vibe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 Do we think Earth-2 was affected by Flashpoint? I only ask that because of the preview for next week with Jesse, although that could be because of what happened to her in S2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eivion Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 I'm pretty sure that is holdover from S2. It was already starting then. I'm Wally will change for real as well by the time the season ends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unholy Dragon Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 The non-particle accelerator metas thing gets extra interesting when you consider Flashpoint had metas despite seemingly no accelerator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 Legends was almost nerd porn. I loved it so fucking much, especially the last ten minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 Kind of odd how people get pissed at Barry for fucking up his timeline so much, but that Legends of Tomorrow premiere literally changed important events in history in those last few minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man Known as Dan Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 I think it's cause LoT makes no mistake about how silly it is. Flash the timeline is treated as super serious. LoT is just intentionally over the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raziel Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 Well, people jump on Barry for changing it because he's doing it for personal reasons, to fix his fuckups, with the full knowledge that he can fuck things up massively if he does anything, yet he keeps doing it. The Legends do it because they're preserving history and the overall timeline, often knowing that they have to make little changes to keep as much of the timeline's integrity intact as possible. Making it so Einstein's ex-wife was credited along with him, while a big change, kept her from being abducted by Nazi's due to Thawne and Dhark's timeline meddeling to keep NYC from being nuked. And the Legends are just fucking awesome, although I really dislike Hunter going MIA after being a high level badass this episode (actually, they were all high level badasses, but I digress). I'm looking forward to the JSA stuff (how the Arrowverse had the JSA and no one bothered to mention it until now is odd) and how Heywood is going to become Citizen Steel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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