Raw 8-19-13

[Reggie20x6]

 

 

 

 

 

 

I was searching for a term to use in my last post, but didn't remember exactly what it was until now: concern trolling.Concern trolling annoys the shit out of me.

 you couldn't remember the term "trolling"? It's right up there with "hipster" as the most obnoxiously overused term on the internet.

Not "trolling". "Concern trolling". It's a type of trolling in which you try to disrupt debate by pretending to agree with the people you actually disagree with and expressing disingenuous concern about problems their point of view has.

 Which isn't at all what's going on.

I was referring to the post wondering about what effect this angle will have on the "casual fan" which was pretty much the definiton of "concern trolling".

 It's not remotely that. At most it's projecting one's own opinion onto others.

Pretending to not have a specific opinion but being worried about how something might go over with those that do is concern trolling, which, IMO was what was happening with that post.

 

 

As the guy whose post led to this idiotic semantic debate - you're missing the point of it.

 

The casual fan not reacting to this angle directly affects my enjoyment of the show because if they're not reacting then people's pushes die off.

 

So why don't we get off of that and back to a 10-year-old Drew McIntyre asking HBK for an autograph outside of a bar in Syracuse 18 years ago?

[Newb82]

I was searching for a term to use in my last post, but didn't remember exactly what it was until now: concern trolling.Concern trolling annoys the shit out of me.

 you couldn't remember the term "trolling"? It's right up there with "hipster" as the most obnoxiously overused term on the internet.

It was the "concern" part that elluded me for a minute.

I don't know what concern trolling is. But way, way, waaaaaaaaaaaaay too many people use the term trolling as an easy out online. I mean, Republican goes on a Democrat forum specifically to talk shit, that's troll. Atheist goes on a religious forum specifically to talk shit, that's a troll. When a guy using the moniker "Dale Hunter" shows up at the Philly sports blog I post at regularly to tell us how much the Flyers suck, that's a troll. Me or Reggie or whoever not liking how the end segment of Raw was booked isn't trolling, it's having a difference of opinion from you. Ultimately too often the term "trolling" ends up getting applied to anyone who dares to hold an unpopular opinion, in which case it's really just message board bullying with the victim being painted as the aggressor.

Let's say there's a pro-marraige equality ad that makes the rounds and gets a lot of attention.A Republican going to a Democratic message board on said ad and pretending to be a Democrat but saying "I'm worried about how this ad will be looked at in [insert Republican stronghold]. This could end up hurting the marraige equality movement there" is concern trolling.It happens a lot on the Fark forums.

[The Comedian]

Daniel Bryan beat Randy Orton.Daniel Bryan beat SheamusDaniel Bryan beat Kane.Daniel Bryan beat 3 big dudes in one night.Daniel Bryan beat John Cena.Daniel Bryan has no balls and the crowd has been conditioned to think he's a jobber and he's not Steve Austin.

 

You're right.

 

I should have compared him to Kurt Angle and the milk truck instead.

[Cristobal]

Fun line I stole from someone else: "Triple H buried his feelings? Well I guess they were the only thing left..."

[Greggulator]

Okay, let's take a face on the roster on the ramp. Say, Christian. He sees what's happening and decides to fight.1) He has no idea of knowing if anyone else will be joining him.

 

2) He's throwing himself into fighting with The Shield, who have wrecked shop since Day 1 and took out two of your peers tonight AND you're also already hurt.

 

3) You're leaving yourself vulnerable to getting jumped from behind by any number of worms behind you like ADR, who know doubt would love to snap your arm and prevent you from ever being a rival again. Or even some random heel might want to step up to take you out just to win favor with The Corporate Evolution.

 

4) Even if somehow you DO even the odds for Bryan, what's the best case scenario for him? He gets his ass beat by Randy, HHH or Vince.5) What's your best case scenario? You'll likely take a beating and now will also draw the ire of this ruthless faction led by people you've seen make lives miserable for decades. And also joining them is a guy in Randy Orton who is a ten-time champion who kicked the owner of the company in the temple and kissed his unconscious daughter in front of his handcuffed son-in-law. And they have three near unstoppable mercenaries at their behest.  You're better off being fired instead but are you willing to hit the armories and sell T-Shirts out of your car like Daniel Bryan, especially when you're nearing the end of your career?There's absolutely NO reason if you're a face to do that. You can be the best person in the world but live to fight another day.

[Newb82]

I was searching for a term to use in my last post, but didn't remember exactly what it was until now: concern trolling.Concern trolling annoys the shit out of me.

 you couldn't remember the term "trolling"? It's right up there with "hipster" as the most obnoxiously overused term on the internet.

Not "trolling". "Concern trolling". It's a type of trolling in which you try to disrupt debate by pretending to agree with the people you actually disagree with and expressing disingenuous concern about problems their point of view has.

 Which isn't at all what's going on.

I was referring to the post wondering about what effect this angle will have on the "casual fan" which was pretty much the definiton of "concern trolling".

 It's not remotely that. At most it's projecting one's own opinion onto others.

Pretending to not have a specific opinion but being worried about how something might go over with those that do is concern trolling, which, IMO was what was happening with that post.

 As the guy whose post led to this idiotic semantic debate - you're missing the point of it. The casual fan not reacting to this angle directly affects my enjoyment of the show because if they're not reacting then people's pushes die off. So why don't we get off of that and back to a 10-year-old Drew McIntyre asking HBK for an autograph outside of a bar in Syracuse 18 years ago?

And my follow up was that anyone who posts on this board has no idea how the "casual fan" thinks about anything involving wrestling.So to me, posing that question when none of us can possibly know the answer came off that way, and also because usually when I see someone on a wrasslin' board such as this one ask about the "casual fan", it's almost always that.Sorry if I misinterpreted your intent.

[Charlie M.]

I fucking hate Randy Orton more than anyone in this thread.  I fast forward or change the channel when I see the dude.  I quit watching wrestling for the better part of a decade because I hated Evolution so fucking much.  They completely ruined WWE for me on all levels.  Vince is a freak whose schtick is miserable without Austin and Stephanie McMahon is a monstrous human being.  

 

All that said, you people are nuts.  This show was top to bottom fucking amazing and Daniel Bryan looks like a monster in training.  This was his learning curve.  He needed to lose tonight.  He'll be back with a vengeance and it will be incredible.  They can't just blow their load all at once.  This is supposed to last to 'Mania.  Cena's gone, guys.  It's all Bryan and Punk from here.  The horrible impatience and whining here is reminding me of another reason that I quit watching, all of the endless negativity towards everything.

 

(Though if HHH really is still the worst guy ever from 2002 and you folks are right, I'll happily admit I'm wrong.)

 

I wouldn't worry too much about HHH because he might wrestle like once between now and Mania, where he puts over Bryan.

 

It's easy to be jaded about the guy but I think he's legitimately doing this storyline because he believes it will get Daniel Bryan to the next level. If it fails, Daniel Bryan goes back to having awesome matches right underneath the Main Events.  People shouldn't treat this as some sort of all or nothing deal.  It's not like trying to get Dolph Ziggler to the next level where they botced his push and now he's just a guy.

[Victator]

You don't do the right thing because it will work out. You do it because it's right. As it is WWE has made their faces look like emasculated wimps who work paycheck to paycheck and have no other job prospects.They could have solved this by not having the entire roster on the ramp. But that would not enable a elderly man to live his power fantasy. 

[Gonzalez]

If that segment leads to Bryan snapping, and going after the McMahons one, by one. Then fine that could work. But if he comes back next week acting like the bullied nerd in school, then it won't .

 

And if he does snap. Ditch the stupid mop top, and learn how to throw a Goddamn punch. Because those elbows may look good in Japan, but they look like crap when you're clearing a ring in the WWE.

[Tim Evans]

Nice to see Kassius Ohno debut as the fat heckler for Punk.

 

OK show thanks to the Shield matches and that Primetime Players match. That spear Roman gave Dolph Ziggler was right up there with the ones Kaitlyn gives AJ.

[Newb82]

Also, when I see the term "casual fan" it usually seems like it's meant to be an insult. Like we "the smarks" get something, but those poor stupid "casual fans" aren't.

[LooseCannon]

Okay, let's take a face on the roster on the ramp. Say, Christian. He sees what's happening and decides to fight.1) He has no idea of knowing if anyone else will be joining him. 2) He's throwing himself into fighting with The Shield, who have wrecked shop since Day 1 and took out two of your peers tonight AND you're also already hurt. 3) You're leaving yourself vulnerable to getting jumped from behind by any number of worms behind you like ADR, who know doubt would love to snap your arm and prevent you from ever being a rival again. Or even some random heel might want to step up to take you out just to win favor with The Corporate Evolution. 4) Even if somehow you DO even the odds for Bryan, what's the best case scenario for him? He gets his ass beat by Randy, HHH or Vince.5) What's your best case scenario? You'll likely take a beating and now will also draw the ire of this ruthless faction led by people you've seen make lives miserable for decades. And also joining them is a guy in Randy Orton who is a ten-time champion who kicked the owner of the company in the temple and kissed his unconscious daughter in front of his handcuffed son-in-law. And they have three near unstoppable mercenaries at their behest.  You're better off being fired instead but are you willing to hit the armories and sell T-Shirts out of your car like Daniel Bryan, especially when you're nearing the end of your career?There's absolutely NO reason if you're a face to do that. You can be the best person in the world but live to fight another day.

That's how HHH's character would go about it. No one wants to be HHH. Except for Vince.

[Reggie20x6]

You don't do the right thing because it will work out. You do it because it's right. As it is WWE has made their faces look like emasculated wimps who work paycheck to paycheck and have no other job prospects.

 

Poor bastards can't break into the skilled labor market because it's all Union work.

[Brian Fowler]

Bryan should have a rematch clause by current WWE standards, right?  So I don't see how they completely hold off on Orton/Bryan for very long.  Although that could end in a clusterfuck and then deny him another shot until he wins the Rumble or what have you...

[Newb82]

You don't do the right thing because it will work out. You do it because it's right. As it is WWE has made their faces look like emasculated wimps who work paycheck to paycheck and have no other job prospects.They could have solved this by not having the entire roster on the ramp. But that would not enable a elderly man to live his power fantasy.

The worst was the "Who is Vince's illegitimate child?" angle requiring every wrestler not knowing who their fathers are.

[cool arrow]

You don't do the right thing because it will work out. You do it because it's right. As it is WWE has made their faces look like emasculated wimps who work paycheck to paycheck and have no other job prospects.They could have solved this by not having the entire roster on the ramp. But that would not enable a elderly man to live his power fantasy. 

 

In all fairness, TNA and ROH aren't exactly job prospects these days.

[Victator]

And then it was not the Sandman. 

[jaedmc]

It was a MITB contract, so it doesn't necessarily have to have a rematch clause in it.

[Brian Fowler]

Hasn't there always been on past MITB cash-ins?

[LooseCannon]

Not sure if anyone mentioned it, but I've seen a report that Sin Cara broke some fingers in his match.

[The Comedian]

If that segment leads to Bryan snapping, and going after the McMahons one, by one. Then fine that could work. But if he comes back next week acting like the bullied nerd in school, then it won't .

 

And if he does snap. Ditch the stupid mop top, and learn how to throw a Goddamn punch. Because those elbows may look good in Japan, but they look like crap when you're clearing a ring in the WWE.

 

you know who threw great "ring-clearing" punches? Stone Cold.

[bink_winkleman]

No, don't ditch the fucking "mop top".  What do people on these boards have against wrestlers without fucking douchebag military cuts?  Wrestlers should have long hair, just as bikers should have beards.  End of fucking story, there is no debate here.

 

Also, were I booking, Bryan would have run over the roster in his vegan food truck and pelted everyone in the ring with tempeh wraps, then get his ass kicked next week, but whatever.  I'd also have liked to have seen Show, Henry and Ziggler do some defense.  But this angle has a good two or three more Raws in it before any of the whining is warranted. 

 

I see a few clusterfuck matches in the future with the eventual win for Bryan and something huge at 'Mania.  He's getting that belt. 

[jaedmc]

Hasn't there always been on past MITB cash-ins?

Also...it's fake Brian. Jesus.

[Newb82]

I want to say yes. Or at least there hasn't been a cash-in where there wasn't a re-match (or a triple threat with the champion who lost first before the cash-in) happening at the next ppv.

[Overly Critical Man]

Okay, let's take a face on the roster on the ramp. Say, Christian. He sees what's happening and decides to fight.1) He has no idea of knowing if anyone else will be joining him.

 

2) He's throwing himself into fighting with The Shield, who have wrecked shop since Day 1 and took out two of your peers tonight AND you're also already hurt.

 

3) You're leaving yourself vulnerable to getting jumped from behind by any number of worms behind you like ADR, who know doubt would love to snap your arm and prevent you from ever being a rival again. Or even some random heel might want to step up to take you out just to win favor with The Corporate Evolution.

 

4) Even if somehow you DO even the odds for Bryan, what's the best case scenario for him? He gets his ass beat by Randy, HHH or Vince.5) What's your best case scenario? You'll likely take a beating and now will also draw the ire of this ruthless faction led by people you've seen make lives miserable for decades. And also joining them is a guy in Randy Orton who is a ten-time champion who kicked the owner of the company in the temple and kissed his unconscious daughter in front of his handcuffed son-in-law. And they have three near unstoppable mercenaries at their behest.  You're better off being fired instead but are you willing to hit the armories and sell T-Shirts out of your car like Daniel Bryan, especially when you're nearing the end of your career?There's absolutely NO reason if you're a face to do that. You can be the best person in the world but live to fight another day.

John Cena would've done it, because that's the right thing to do.

 

This is why every else is a miserable Yes man and John Cena has a cool mansion with a waterslide and the big breasted Bella.