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Joshi Puroresu Discussion Thread


NikkySan

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Well, here is the chart of their claimed attendance history at Korakuen that I created for my last column/review on Wrestling With Words. I'm not gonna say anything else cause some people on this thread are contentious right now. 

Stardom-Claimed-Korakuen-Hall-Attendance

 

And yes, this is the nerdiest thing I've probably done in my life. 

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16 hours ago, Kevin Wilson said:

The "crazy line" has been crossed, I try not to engage with people that are more than 20% crazier than I am. It is how I have stayed so youthful and positive in life.

 

I follow joshi numbers closely and everything I have said in regards to attendance figures has proof backing it. I would never just make shit up. This goes back to our discussion about Iroha freelancing as a rookie and you using the Shirai sisters as an example of freelancing rookies when they were actually getting booked by MAKEHAN from their debut before they formed Triple Tails. You obviously do not have much knowledge of the medium. You're responding like a mark because you think I am insulting Ice Ribbon when I am actually a fan of the company and have been for years. I'm allowed to critique a company's booking as a fan.

 

9 hours ago, Hoope said:

What "crazy" numbers? The Sendai/Stardom feud didn't create some high rise in anyone's number but Sendai, if you believe the numbers Sendai call. The numbers those shows drew on their own were just the usual Stardom numbers unless you had Act returning/retiring(the return coming alongside a tournament final btw) and Mio teaming with Io for the last time. Hell, Kairi/Mayu, the main event before the first Meiko/Kairi main event, basically did the same number. It was a small boost from most of the shows before but wasn't crazy at all.

Also that shitty Stardom faction war mess was never hot. There wasn't even any build for Act/Yoshiko cuz Act got "sick" and missed every other Feburary show before the actual match besides one, which I cant find anything on but it seems to point to Act herself being a draw, somewhat in a bigger match. 

 

I don't know about Sera/Yuuka actually being heat, and there indeed was Fujimoto/Sakura, but the Maya thing was just her OZ gimmick, as the lowest member in the Ozakigun, some she had already been doing for a month or 2 so she can be the one to eat pins in tags, being carried over to her home promotion once and once only cuz Ozaki was there. Miyako's match most likely had more to do with the number they got than that.

 

Basically all of them are but I said "supercard" vanity, which in SEAdLINNNG's case, aren't very super, but still. All the others are regularly running, even Marvelous. SEAdLINNNG runs generally every other month apart from September-October this year which was a move from Korakuen to Shinjuku and this and next month. Hell, they originally structured main events as 2000s joshi nostalgia matches till yoshiko came back.

The Stardom vs. Senjo tournament show claimed 1480, which is the biggest number Stardom had done in 3 years. Then there was the show with Mayu/Meiko, Io/Sachiko & Hojo/Iwata that did 1000+ as well as the ones you mentioned. The Satomaru/Senjo angle helped Stardom out a lot last year in drawing and match quality. The Korakuen numbers took a noticeably dive whenever Satomaru wasn't booked on the shows.

The Act/Yoshiko had a heated build that may or may not have been a shoot. The contract signing taking place at the start of the match was due to Act missing the initially signing due to sickness which peeved Yoshiko who spoke out against Act making "excuses" for missing so many shows. On top of that they are former stablemates so there is already an established history between.

 

I'm not sure what we're even arguing at this point, but the Yuuka/Sera feud was definitely heated. It had a great build. Maya is one of the more popular Ice Ribbon wrestlers, so any high-profile singles match she is in is a drawing point (she is facing Nanae at RIBBONMANIA for example), and also this is an attractive woman who wears black and whips people in her Ozakigun persona. It's going to draw.

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5 hours ago, JML said:

Tonight's Stardom Korakuen show was interesting without giving spoilers. 

@Kevin Wilson Have you seen any other Konami matches from 2016 besides the Kairi match and the Death Match Tag?

I don't think so. One of the downsides of her being with REINA the first eight months of the year is they rarely make TV, and since I don't find their shows top to bottom very entertaining I wasn't about to spend $20 on a DVD just to see her. Should be better now that she is signed with a new company, she already has worked several promotions that make TV a lot more often.

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(This thread has never been spoiler-free, so hopefully people that want to stay spoiler-free will stay away from it.)

I expected Mayu to lose to Io, I thought that was the right move. The storyline with Io turning on Mayu and becoming evil just started, it would have felt like too fast of a conclusion if Mayu already won the feud and leave Io a bit meandering the next few months since she would have lost her first big match after forming her new faction. I think Mayu is "ready" to be champion but a few more months of overcoming adversity won't kill her momentum any, and she is only 23.

I wasn't surprised that Hojo and Bito won the tag titles with Kyoko retiring soon but it is interesting in that they are a pretty new tag team and if they are still going after singles titles too I am afraid the titles won't be defended as often or won't be defended with major programs. Mayu Iwatani hasn't really had a feud leading to a title match with her singles belt the entire time she has had it (except vs. Kagetsu), a feud isn't always necessary but it certainly can help make a match more engaging and interesting. So hopefully Hojo/Bito team at least somewhat regularly while they have the belts so their title matches aren't just random tag matches with little build.

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54 minutes ago, Kevin Wilson said:

I wasn't surprised that Hojo and Bito won the tag titles with Kyoko retiring soon but it is interesting in that they are a pretty new tag team and if they are still going after singles titles too I am afraid the titles won't be defended as often or won't be defended with major programs. Mayu Iwatani hasn't really had a feud leading to a title match with her singles belt the entire time she has had it (except vs. Kagetsu), a feud isn't always necessary but it certainly can help make a match more engaging and interesting. So hopefully Hojo/Bito team at least somewhat regularly while they have the belts so their title matches aren't just random tag matches with little build.

Stardom hasn't had many real feuds in general, titles or not. I'm not sure why you think that would change. Also Mayu's defense against Shanna actually was built up a little as an actual feud, particularly over the dragon suplex.

I am hoping though that the Queen's Quest feud extends to Mayu's High Speed belt with Momo or HZK taking it.

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49 minutes ago, Eivion said:

Stardom hasn't had many real feuds in general, titles or not. I'm not sure why you think that would change. Also Mayu's defense against Shanna actually was built up a little as an actual feud, particularly over the dragon suplex.

I am hoping though that the Queen's Quest feud extends to Mayu's High Speed belt with Momo or HZK taking it.

I certainly disagree with that. A feud doesn't have to have a year build-up or blood to still be a feud. Io/Mayu, Kairi/Meiko, Kairi/Santana, Io/Meiko were all title feuds, maybe we just have different definitions of what a feud is.

It has nothing to do with "thinking something will change," Stardom has in the past and currently does have feuds. Momo/Kyona, Io/Mayu, Queen's Quest/Regular Army are all active feuds in the promotion. Stardom is capable of and has feuds, why hoping the tag titles have one also is need for a rebuttal I have no idea. This isn't hoping Stardom changes their identity, just hoping they continue doing what they have sometimes done in the past.

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38 minutes ago, Kevin Wilson said:

I certainly disagree with that. A feud doesn't have to have a year build-up or blood to still be a feud. Io/Mayu, Kairi/Meiko, Kairi/Santana, Io/Meiko were all title feuds, maybe we just have different definitions of what a feud is.

It has nothing to do with "thinking something will change," Stardom has in the past and currently does have feuds. Momo/Kyona, Io/Mayu, Queen's Quest/Regular Army are all active feuds in the promotion. Stardom is capable of and has feuds, why hoping the tag titles have one also is need for a rebuttal I have no idea. This isn't hoping Stardom changes their identity, just hoping they continue doing what they have sometimes done in the past.

Yeah, I never said they didn't have any feuds. I literally just mentioned one. I said they haven't had many. And there is nothing wrong with hoping for the tag titles to have actual feuds for them, I just wouldn't expect it save for the inevitable QQ challenge.

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4 hours ago, lostinube said:

There are a couple of early 2016 Konami matches on this channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCq4o415dCRi5zJFwUTmXJHA

 

I will try to check those out but I've seen the Aja Kong match and that's from last December so I'll to cross reference the matches on Cagematch or Wrestling Data to see dates wise. It was an ok match as it was part of her pseudo trial singles match series. I'm intrigued by her coming into Stardom cause of the shoot style game she has and I'm hoping they do her vs Shayna Baszler on the January tour. If she becomes a regular in Stardom, she adds that solid foundation that they have of wrestlers that are under 25 that keep people interested if Io and Kairi were to leave. I'm not saying she will be Red Belt Champ next year but I think she will have a title in Stardom by the end of the year if everything works out. Judging from her twitter account, she's a weird individual though so who knows. 

With the recent Stardom show, the only thing that surprised me was Io retaining the title. In the back of my mind, I thought this would happen but the logical thing to me was crown Mayu on the Year End Show. It actually helps Mayu once she gets the title in the future cause it will be the lovable loser finally winning the big one. 

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2 hours ago, JML said:

I'm not saying she will be Red Belt Champ next year but I think she will have a title in Stardom by the end of the year if everything works out. Judging from her twitter account, she's a weird individual though so who knows. 

What is weird about her twitter?

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4 hours ago, Eivion said:

What is weird about her twitter?

The pet albino snake she just got, seeing her in a Xvideos shirt was out of the ordinary, some of the videos she did for promoting the light tube death match were out there (granted Swastikas mean something different in Japan than they do to the rest of the  and her making fun of herself with monkey pictures. It's just that she's not the typical wrestler on twitter but I'm relative new to wrestling Twitter. 

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I thought it was just good, honestly. Highest I went was ***1/2 or 3/4. Just a lot of movez, a lot of Io being Io with the usual Io tropes like the "take a move on the floor then garner sympathy trying to break the 20 count" bit(as a heel this time too), still good and all I guess, nothing got screwed up, but the match in May was much better

"kicking out of finishers at one" spots I'm not a fan of these days, either

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I thought it was pretty good, maybe second only to their match in May. It was kind of spotty but so was the May match, and it also kind of goes with the idea of Mayu's general failure to evolve the way she was overly focused on dragon suplex variations instead of trying something new. Not a perfect match, but I was satisfied, especially since there is a bigger rematch in the future.

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8 hours ago, Overly Critical Man said:

Looks like the super happy fun friendship club drew over 1000 for Ribbonmania. 

1108 to be exact. Color me shocked. I wonder if part of the DDT crowd went to this too. 

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