Kevin Wilson Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 I think the frustration with Stardom and why people that are annoyed by them still watch them is that they do have the best Joshi wrestlers, so if you a fan of Joshi you kinda have to at least keep an eye on their big shows. Everyone has their own personal favorites but few can deny that overall Kairi/Mayu/Io are minimally all in the Top 10 current Joshi wrestlers, so just not watching Stardom at all isn't really an option for most fans. But asking them to not bring gaijins would be like asking Big Japan to stop having deathmatches or DDT to stop having comedy, the owner of Stardom is a big fan of gaijins and they aren't ever going anywhere. It is part of their identity. To me that will probably at times prevent them from having the best top to bottom cards but they will still have some great matches, and their gaijins coming over in January I am a fan of so things may be picking up a bit for them soon. At least temporarily. I know this was already discussed but I am finally now watching Stardom 10/30 (I am always a few weeks behind) and its just actively not good. I'm also watching the non-clipped version which was probably a mistake. I still have the main event left which will help, but that card construction is an example of what drives me nuts. Which is mostly only annoying because it is their Korakuen Hall show which are the events I'll be more likely to seek out going forward, I'd rather they do bad shit on the house shows and focus the good stuff on their Samurai tapings. There is no reason for Chelsea Green to have gotten a title shot, she only has two years experience so its not a 'respected veteran' situation, and she had no wins of note in Stardom. Since I think everything in the world thought that match ranged from bad to terrible, hopefully Stardom management noticed also and doesn't give her such a big spot again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donsem43 Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 Non-Japanese women's wrestling should be banned. How dare these women dream of being pro wrestlers. How dare they try an overcome all of the obstacles that are put in front of them. Worst of all, how dare they try measure up to joshi workers. Don't they realize that they should be treated like Roman Gods that no mere mortal should dare to even think of trying to touch. How insulting! What a terrible example for young non-Japanese girls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Wilson Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 2 minutes ago, donsem43 said: Non-Japanese women's wrestling should be banned. How dare these women dream of being pro wrestlers. How dare they try an overcome all of the obstacles that are put in front of them. Worst of all, how dare they try measure up to joshi workers. Don't they realize that they should be treated like Roman Gods that no mere mortal should dare to even think of trying to touch. How insulting! What a terrible example for young non-Japanese girls. What a post looks like when a person is no longer willing and/or able to have a normal discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donsem43 Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 Insults are just a one way street then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eivion Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 41 minutes ago, Kevin Wilson said: What a post looks like when a person is no longer willing and/or able to have a normal discussion. To be fair I'm not sure donsem was referring to you. Some of the posters here do seem to have a problem with gaijin in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoope Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 44 minutes ago, donsem43 said: Non-Japanese women's wrestling should be banned. How dare these women dream of being pro wrestlers. How dare they try an overcome all of the obstacles that are put in front of them. Worst of all, how dare they try measure up to joshi workers. Don't they realize that they should be treated like Roman Gods that no mere mortal should dare to even think of trying to touch. How insulting! What a terrible example for young non-Japanese girls. Well...most of it's legit not very good...so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Wilson Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 17 minutes ago, Eivion said: To be fair I'm not sure donsem was referring to you. Some of the posters here do seem to have a problem with gaijin in general. I haven't seen anything bad said about Toni Storm, Kay Lee Ray, or Evie, who are great and contributed well to Stardom. I think people have an issue with gaijin going to Stardom that aren't very good, getting title shots they haven't earned within the promotion, and then disappearing again. I think those are valid complaints on a case by case basis, but creating a "people say all gaijins are bad and shouldn't even be wrestling" strawman isn't going to help facilitate discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoope Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 1 hour ago, Kevin Wilson said: I think the frustration with Stardom and why people that are annoyed by them still watch them is that they do have the best Joshi wrestlers, so if you a fan of Joshi you kinda have to at least keep an eye on their big shows. Everyone has their own personal favorites but few can deny that overall Kairi/Mayu/Io are minimally all in the Top 10 current Joshi wrestlers, so just not watching Stardom at all isn't really an option for most fans. But asking them to not bring gaijins would be like asking Big Japan to stop having deathmatches or DDT to stop having comedy, the owner of Stardom is a big fan of gaijins and they aren't ever going anywhere. It is part of their identity. To me that will probably at times prevent them from having the best top to bottom cards but they will still have some great matches, and their gaijins coming over in January I am a fan of so things may be picking up a bit for them soon. At least temporarily. I know this was already discussed but I am finally now watching Stardom 10/30 (I am always a few weeks behind) and its just actively not good. I'm also watching the non-clipped version which was probably a mistake. I still have the main event left which will help, but that card construction is an example of what drives me nuts. Which is mostly only annoying because it is their Korakuen Hall show which are the events I'll be more likely to seek out going forward, I'd rather they do bad shit on the house shows and focus the good stuff on their Samurai tapings. There is no reason for Chelsea Green to have gotten a title shot, she only has two years experience so its not a 'respected veteran' situation, and she had no wins of note in Stardom. Since I think everything in the world thought that match ranged from bad to terrible, hopefully Stardom management noticed also and doesn't give her such a big spot again. About the get rid of gaijin thing, the "it'd be like taking away deathmatches from BJW or comedy from DDT" is a horrendously absurd an extreme comparison. It may be being forced as PART of their identity, trying to be "global" by bringing seemingly anyone not Japanese but it's not THE identity like your examples. BJW loses a massive part of them getting rid of deathmatches. DDT is nothing and its niche is gone w/o that sweet creative comedy. Rossy's gaijin fetish isn't being overpushed on his cards, meh. No need for none, just limit and find the balance, and GOOD ones. Also Kairi is NOT top 10 this year, i love her but no. She's been dragged so far down this year she can't be considered, not with the rest out there having better years than her. The sad/bad thing is, she's was UNDEFEATED since she got there. Didn't lose a single match until Kairi beat her, only close one was an elimination match where she was pinned by, well, Kairi, but her team won so that didn't count. Her and Santana were doing the "bounce in every other month then leave" deal. She got hurt and we were spared for a while. Also I can say with confidence without seeing the unedited version there was no difference with the Samurai version. They skipped what seemed like segments of wrestlers just selling or getting into the ring in every single match, but they were just super brief cuts and I doubt there was a difference. You would've probably just been watching the same match watching the Samurai version, which I'd pray for you for, having ended up seeing it twice myself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donsem43 Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 How is that different then the "They suck in Stardom, so they're awful!" strawman? I try to make joshi more accessible to non-fans by comparing matches to one's that happen in WWE/NXT because that's what people are most likely to know. I've seen bad Kay Lee Ray indie matches but I'm not on here trashing her because I feel like I've seen a more complete picture of her career. How many people here saw Santana's run as Shine champ last year? No clue how that can be seen "no longer willing and/or able to have a normal discussion" unless trying to have an informed opinion around here is a bad thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dshuks Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 9 minutes ago, donsem43 said: How is that different then the "They suck in Stardom, so they're awful!" strawman? I try to make joshi more accessible to non-fans by comparing matches to one's that happen in WWE/NXT because that's what people are most likely to know. I've seen bad Kay Lee Ray indie matches but I'm not on here trashing her because I feel like I've seen a more complete picture of her career. How many people here saw Santana's run as Shine champ last year? No clue how that can be seen "no longer willing and/or able to have a normal discussion" unless trying to have an informed opinion around here is a bad thing. I think there's some merit to this. Santana is someone who just really doesn't work well with the hard hitting style of joshi. But when she's wrestling a more WWE style match she's perfectly fine and pretty good. Toni Storm, Viper, Evie, Kellie, Rosa Negra,and Kay Lee Ray are all examples of good gajiin who work well with the Joshi style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Wilson Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 11 minutes ago, donsem43 said: How is that different then the "They suck in Stardom, so they're awful!" strawman? I try to make joshi more accessible to non-fans by comparing matches to one's that happen in WWE/NXT because that's what people are most likely to know. I've seen bad Kay Lee Ray indie matches but I'm not on here trashing her because I feel like I've seen a more complete picture of her career. How many people here saw Santana's run as Shine champ last year? No clue how that can be seen "no longer willing and/or able to have a normal discussion" unless trying to have an informed opinion around here is a bad thing. If you think the post you made helps facilitate discussion then we have different ideas of what a discussion is. Giving examples and specific opinions facilitates discussion. No one said gaijins shouldn't wrestle anywhere in the world, you made that up. That's a strawman. Saying wrestlers shouldn't even dream of being wrestlers because someone doesn't like the gaijin brought in my Stardom is something I'd expect to read on 4chan and just makes people roll their eyes while discrediting your posts in general because its so over the top stupid. But you do you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eivion Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 36 minutes ago, Kevin Wilson said: I haven't seen anything bad said about Toni Storm, Kay Lee Ray, or Evie, who are great and contributed well to Stardom. I think people have an issue with gaijin going to Stardom that aren't very good, getting title shots they haven't earned within the promotion, and then disappearing again. I think those are valid complaints on a case by case basis, but creating a "people say all gaijins are bad and shouldn't even be wrestling" strawman isn't going to help facilitate discussion. Pretty sure the comment was hyperbole. And while I don't think the posters hate gaijin in general, its somewhat the impression they were giving with how hard they were ranting against them. I don't necessarily disagree with what you said here. I just think those weren't the points others were making, or they at least didn't make them well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.STAP Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 2 hours ago, Kevin Wilson said: Everyone has their own personal favorites but few can deny that overall Kairi/Mayu/Io are minimally all in the Top 10 current Joshi wrestlers Ehh. I can name 10 joshi I've enjoyed more this year than Threedom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Wilson Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 2 minutes ago, .STAP said: Ehh. I can name 10 joshi I've enjoyed more this year than Threedom. There are always exceptions. Its like an MVP vote in any sport, no one agrees on everything 100% of the time but I'm willing to bet the vast majority of Joshi fans would have them up there somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dshuks Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 So to get discussion moved in a more positive direction. Just for fun if you were tasked with taking all of the current Joshi promotions and combining them into three promotions, how would you divide the talent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trocar Slush Weasel Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 2 hours ago, Dshuks said: So to get discussion moved in a more positive direction. Just for fun if you were tasked with taking all of the current Joshi promotions and combining them into three promotions, how would you divide the talent? Spreadsheet time. Watched the Ruaka debut tag match, exactly what you would expect. Azumi looked like Jaguar Yokota compared to the other three. Hopefully she gets taller. Ruaka looks like a mini-Etsuko Mita with a similar dropkick. She should probably keep working on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ka-to Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 4 hours ago, Dshuks said: So to get discussion moved in a more positive direction. Just for fun if you were tasked with taking all of the current Joshi promotions and combining them into three promotions, how would you divide the talent? Ex-AJW plus trainees of Kyoko and Nanae. Ex-GAEA plus trainees of Chigusa and Meiko. Idols. Split up everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ka-to Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 2 hours ago, Trocar Slush Weasel said: Azumi looked like Jaguar Yokota compared to the other three. Hopefully she gets taller. Unfortunately Riho and Tsukushi never did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overly Critical Man Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 10 hours ago, ka-to said: Unfortunately Riho and Tsukushi never did. Meanwhile, Kurumi is turning into quite the hossette. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eivion Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 Turning. She was basically already. That reminds me that its been far too long since I've seen a match of Kurumi's. Anything good she been in this year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoope Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 12 minutes ago, Eivion said: Turning. She was basically already. That reminds me that its been far too long since I've seen a match of Kurumi's. Anything good she been in this year? Her and Yamashita vs Arisa and Tsukushi, Her and Tsukushi vs Best Friends, Her and Tsukushi vs Avid Rival Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.STAP Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 58 minutes ago, Eivion said: Turning. She was basically already. That reminds me that its been far too long since I've seen a match of Kurumi's. Anything good she been in this year? >Not watching Ice Ribbon What are you even doing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Wilson Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 Kurumi is probably my favorite under 18 year old Joshi wrestler right now, I think she is better than Momo. I can't off the top of my head pinpoint any must-see matches as generally she is still in mid-card tags, but she always looks good in them and they are really giving her a chance to shine. A lot of promise there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eivion Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 32 minutes ago, .STAP said: >Not watching Ice Ribbon What are you even doing? Watching things I enjoy more, playing games, reading comic, etc. Really I just didn't have access to anything recent for a good while and never quite got back into the groove of things when I did have it again. Recently I've mostly been watching 90-92 AJW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dshuks Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 So what is going on with Marvelous? Is it actually a promotion anymore? Does Iroha regret leaving Stardom or at the very least tying herself down to Chigusa's pmootion and not going freelance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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