Raw 7-27-15

[Brysynner]

 

So we have the false god (Shinnok/Cena) getting his head crushed in by a knee from the opportunistic emperor (Kotal Khan/Rollins)

[The Man Known as Dan]

Technically Shinnok wasn't a false god. He's a real damn god, just an evil one.

[Brysynner]

Damnit you're right...point still stands. John Cena, as an evil God works too

[BReal]

Love the revisionist history here that Trish Stratus' run as the Women's champ was somehow not important. She has actual feuds with stories and good matches. And her matches on PPV were generally treated as more important than a lot of the "just throw a bunch of Divas out there for 6 minutes" stuff from over the past few years.But hey, fuck her, she didn't come from NXT!

 

I don't know if this makes sense or not, but I would dare to day that the actual wrestling element of the women's division has never really mattered until a few years ago. Trish and Lita the characters were pretty instrumental to the Attitude Era success, but their in-ring exploits were never presented in a way to mean anything. To Joe Public (the average fan, not the "Live and Learn" singers) they are far more remembered for ill-fated weddings, affairs with VKM and Edge, and generally wanton behavior outside of the squared circle.

[Just Dave]

This is a great board with generally reasoned, normal people, but every once in a while someone will say something absurd and it'll become some degree of groupthink for a few weeks. I remember for a few weeks people saying the New Age Outlaws were never any good (they got old, but they were fantastic for a while,) Dolph Ziggler isn't any good/not over (patently false/depends on the city) and now this Stratus nonsense. She started out as T&A for a team called T&A, and ended up one of the most iconic Divas in the history of the business. This idea that she wasn't important or any good is ludicrous. She started out horrid, I'll grant that, but she worked hard and became a very good, if never great, worker. 

[Jamal]

This is a great board with generally reasoned, normal people, but every once in a while someone will say something absurd and it'll become some degree of groupthink for a few weeks. I remember for a few weeks people saying the New Age Outlaws were never any good (they got old, but they were fantastic for a while,) Dolph Ziggler isn't any good/not over (patently false/depends on the city) and now this Stratus nonsense. She started out as T&A for a team called T&A, and ended up one of the most iconic Divas in the history of the business. This idea that she wasn't important or any good is ludicrous. She started out horrid, I'll grant that, but she worked hard and became a very good, if never great, worker. 

 

I agree. While she was not the best female worker during the Attitude Era, she became pretty solid and was regularly having good matches with Molly, Jazz, Victoria, etc. 

[Cristobal]

Whether Stratus was meh or "very good" probably depended on your frame of reference.

If the women's wrestling you watched at the time consisted of WWE, WCW, ECW and early TNA, Stratus' late period in WWE was quite good.

If your tape collection included AJW, JWP, GAEA, ARSION etc, you probably weren't that high on her.

[BReal]

I never really questioned whether Trish was "good" or not. I just question that the women's division ever really mattered before. It certainly was never presented in the way it has been lately. It has gone from automatic bathroom break match to something people actually are interested in...kudos to all involved.

[Niners Fan in CT]

I will say that young Trish Stratus vs. young Stephanie McMahon was A LOT better than it had any fucking right to be.  Very good, even.

[Mick32]

The announcers putting over Cena after his nose was busted was probably as good as I've heard them in forever.

[w. josh]

The New Age Outlaws were never any good.

[Brian Fowler]

Sure they were. Before they entered the land of perpetually over, when they just got their intro pop. Before that, CV when they were both on the verge of being unemployed, and were both going all fucking out in a desperate attempt to save their careers. They were damn fucking good. Maybe not in the match of the year way, but in earning their heat, getting over the old fashioned way, Road Dog cutting promos, building a quality act.

[Just Dave]

The stuff they did with the Road Warriors, bashing the Headbangers with the boombox, putting Cactus JAck and Terry Funk in that dumpster. NAO did some good stuff. 

[Brian Fowler]

The stuff they did with the Road Warriors, bashing the Headbangers with the boombox, putting Cactus JAck and Terry Funk in that dumpster. NAO did some good stuff.

Exactly. Quality act. I know the attitude era has become hella overrated, and the backlash against that is completely justified, but not everything in the undercard sucked.

[goc]

They also had that Four Way Tag Team match where Road Dogg pinned Billy Gunn to retain their titles which was a finish I fucked loved for how smart it made them seem. Which led to the "Outlaws rule" which meant you could no longer do that and pretty much stopped the whole "you have to make contact with your opponent even if he's your partner before you can tag out" thing.

[Johnny Sorrow]

The stuff they did with the Road Warriors, bashing the Headbangers with the boombox, putting Cactus JAck and Terry Funk in that dumpster. NAO did some good stuff.

Exactly. Quality act. I know the attitude era has become hella overrated, and the backlash against that is completely justified, but not everything in the undercard sucked.

Yeah, that initial run was fucking great. I loved that it was two guys who were dead in the fucking water catching fire and taking a thrown together team and becoming the hottest thing going once they were given free reign. That was truly one of those awesome moments during WWF being on the ropes and Vince trying anything, and guys who were WCW cast offs and WWF low card guys were getting themselves over accordingly.

[Jingus]

Trish and Lita the characters were pretty instrumental to the Attitude Era success, but their in-ring exploits were never presented in a way to mean anything. To Joe Public (the average fan, not the "Live and Learn" singers) they are far more remembered for ill-fated weddings, affairs with VKM and Edge, and generally wanton behavior outside of the squared circle.

I dunno, I remember Trish pretty well for having the best match of the night at Mania 22.

And until age and injuries took their toll, the Outlaws were fine in the ring. It was usually some lame booking which made their matches suck. And that's when they did suck; go back and rewatch those Cactus/Chainsaw and Acolytes matches, they were perfectly decent brawls.

[SirSmUgly]

Since we're talking about them, one of my favorite random matches is NAO/LOD at the 1998 Rumble. They were way played out by 2000, but in 1997 and 1998, they were a fun tag team.

[Hooker]

It felt like Trips and Stephanie weren't going to start the show until enough fans bought programs in that opening segment.  Holy shit that was their worst thing yet.

[Brysynner]

They also had that Four Way Tag Team match where Road Dogg pinned Billy Gunn to retain their titles which was a finish I fucked loved for how smart it made them seem. Which led to the "Outlaws rule" which meant you could no longer do that and pretty much stopped the whole "you have to make contact with your opponent even if he's your partner before you can tag out" thing.

Road Dogg pinning Billy Gunn is the smartest move in wrestling that I can remember

[turk128]

 

Road Dogg pinning Billy Gunn is the smartest move in wrestling that I can remember

 

The second being the Road Dogg Defense; during the Royal Rumble when Road Dogg lasted way longer than he should be clinging to the bottom rope like a baby monkey to his mother's belly.

[odessasteps]

No Armstrong Curse there