Jump to content
DVDVR Message Board

Raw is Sting 3-16-15


MGFanJay
 Share

Recommended Posts

This goes beyond Bryan at this point. Bryan is the guy the fans chose so when WWE rejects him they are rejecting the fans as well. This is much more a fans vs Vince thing than a Bryan vs Reigns thing. It's just that Bryan represents the fans and Reigns represents Vince. They are almost innocent bystanders at this point, and it has probably hurt Bryan's career to the point where they're actively trying to cool him down.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

dude, i was replying to a guy who said he hoped sheamus would beat bryan in 18 seconds again. where's your problem with that? clearly my post was in jest in reply to that; i don't think his was. 

 

but no, don't worry about credibility. there's things we're debating here that aren't even debatable, like the utterly asinine comment that Bryan is actually a heel, which is clearly just trolling or dumb, take your pick. 

 

I'm pretty sure Dewar was being sarcastic with that post.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree that this feels like HHH letting Vince do whatever just to burn himself and get it out of his system to move forward after this debacle. Last year was very much Vince deferring to HHH and now this year it's like HHH is playing nice, deferring to Vince.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm still wondering what the reaction would have been if it was Bryan instead of Cena in that Summerslam match against Brock like it was originally planned.

Probably not as good. The surprise in that match was seeing Cena just straight-up get his ass kicked. I don't think we'd have been as surprised that Bryan got booked that way. And I'd assume Bryan would have gotten another shot at NoC but fallen short, and then things would have gotten really bad when he'd have been booked to get eliminated in the first half of the Rumble and then stuck in some meaningless midcard schm-...oh.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I love how this has turned into Bryan fans always being entitled dicks and that they should just shut up and take what the E gives them. Take your Batista/Orton main event from last year that clearly everyone was dying for and be fucking happy!

How dare you actually express how you think the booking of the company is fucking retarded! You've never booked, so you should have no say in the matter!

 

Actually things would be better right now had they gone with Batista/Orton at Mania. Taker would most likely be 22-0, Bryan's injury wouldn't have caused a massive scramble. Reigns would have already beaten Lesnar. The main event for Mania would probably be Bryan vs. Reigns as it would've made sense to have Bryan get his shot at Orton (who would've been champion since Extreme Rules) at Fastlane.

 

So yeah I would prefer the mirror universe where Batista/Orton happens at Mania instead of the On-Air Blowjob To Daniel Bryan

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

I love how this has turned into Bryan fans always being entitled dicks and that they should just shut up and take what the E gives them. Take your Batista/Orton main event from last year that clearly everyone was dying for and be fucking happy!

How dare you actually express how you think the booking of the company is fucking retarded! You've never booked, so you should have no say in the matter!

 

Actually things would be better right now had they gone with Batista/Orton at Mania. Taker would most likely be 22-0, Bryan's injury wouldn't have caused a massive scramble. Reigns would have already beaten Lesnar. The main event for Mania would probably be Bryan vs. Reigns as it would've made sense to have Bryan get his shot at Orton (who would've been champion since Extreme Rules) at Fastlane.

 

So yeah I would prefer the mirror universe where Batista/Orton happens at Mania instead of the On-Air Blowjob To Daniel Bryan

 

 

and what a scramble that was, with cena basically just pretending to be daniel bryan for a month. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Daniel Bryan storyline last year was one of the all-time great wrestling morality plays. The underdog who doesn't look the part -- but looks like us -- had the ball taken from him time and time again. But he overcame the vast odds put against him by staying true to himself. The power of positive thinking -- saying YES! and not letting them break you down -- won the day over the preferred choices of the powers-that-be. That was incredibly awesome and amazing with a tremendous payoff. I wouldn't change that ride for anything.

But the meta-ness the hardcore fans place on complicates everything. Things become about "burials" and all sorts of other stuff. Fans boo Paul Heyman pumping up Roman Reigns by comparing him to the heroes of yesterday not because a dastardly heel is saying things, but because they perceive it's Vince McMahon or some writer making Heyman say something to ram Roman down our throats.

That's just irritating. Who gives a crap? This is theater.

Okay, back to basketball threads.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Because they don't like Reigns. What do you not get about that? You're basically saying "oh just play along" which is fine. But clearly the fans are at a point where they're pushing back and saying "actually, no, this is bullshit, we don't want this". If people trust the booking, they will go along for the ride. Look at NXT for a great example of that. No one complained about Sami Zayn losing the title instantly, or being beaten up straight after winning it because a) they like Owens too b ) they trust the booking, and c) they know sami will still be a featured player and it isn't part of some grand plan to push him aside for baron corbin. WWE fans don't trust the booking because why would they? So they boo the booking decisions because they see that Bryan is being pushed aside, that Reigns is the new guy, and isn't very good, and that for all your bigging up the angle last year, it wasn't part of some grand morality play that was meant to lead to Bryan's redemption, it was all a thrown together mess that was leading to Batista being the avenging hero until the fans said fuck that, all while Bryan was meant to be back in the midcard. There's no reason for the fans to trust the booking team to book "their" guy right because they constantly try to shove him out the way. But I will say this: did you hear any bitching or the air being let out of the arena when Bryan lost to Wyatt at the rumble last year? No. You could still feel the excitement in the air. The story was obvious - Bryan was going to lose to Wyatt (a then up and coming midcarder) and return to heroically win the Rumble. It was so obvious. So the fans were along for the ride. They weren't furious that Bryan lost. They knew it was all part of the story. Except that wasn't the story. So suddenly what was a piece of great booking was actually a case of being spat at in the face. So any and all trust in their booking was gone. And yet people were willing to go along for the ride again this year. But they did the exact same thing. THAT is why people aren't saying it's just theater so let's clap like monkeys. If it's good theater, they will. When it's a senile old man pissing in their faces they can either walk away or fight back. 

  • Like 9
Link to comment
Share on other sites

But the meta-ness the hardcore fans place on complicates everything.

You can't set the "meta" aside, because without the crowd's insertion of their preferences into the booking, we don't GET that particular play, we get Orton vs Batista instead.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you feel the booker is "pissing in your face", why are you still watching? Someone tried to piss in my face, I'd be serving jail time for bouncing that mother fucker up and down the street like a basketball, not watching his television show and giving him my money.

 

I don't feel like reading a 90 page pdf to figure out what the fuck was going on with Chikara, so I don't watch (not that I watched a ton of it to begin with). Impact sucks, I don't watch it anymore. There are so many different options out there for watching wrestling right now, I don't get the people who keep watching something they clearly don't like.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The genie's out of the bottle we're not going back to 1985. WWE promotes the hell out of social media, they promote shoot interviews on their own network, and they are having Heyman cut awful quasi shoot promos to hype Lesnar/Reigns. Every bit of fan backlash they get they've brought on themselves.

 

People will only sit back and enjoy the show when they stop having their intelligence insulted, and they get a story worth investing in. Who is Roman Reigns and why should I care if he wins at Mania?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The genie's out of the bottle we're not going back to 1985. WWE promotes the hell out of social media, they promote shoot interviews on their own network, and they are having Heyman cut awful quasi shoot promos to hype Lesnar/Reigns. Every bit of fan backlash they get they've brought on themselves.

 

People will only sit back and enjoy the show when they stop having their intelligence insulted, and they get a story worth investing in. Who is Roman Reigns and why should I care if he wins at Mania?

Well, if you've been actually watching and not hate watching, you'd actually see that they *are* telling that story, but ya'll are too busy bitching that its not Bryan in Reigns spot, and refuse to care.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You're basically saying "oh just play along" which is fine. But clearly the fans are at a point where they're pushing back and saying "actually, no, this is bullshit, we don't want this".

 

No--what we're saying if if you don't like what's being presented to you, don't watch.  This is an option.  Why on earth would anyone watch or keep up with a TV show they despise and causes them grief is beyond me.  We don't listen to music we don't like or eat food that our tastebuds find unappealing.  I get that some griping is part of the package, but this has become a bit much.

 

There is other wrestling--Lucha Underground, NJPW, old matches on WWE Network.  There are at least a dozen avenues for any wrestling fan to travel and find what they deem as quality viewing.  So go find your avenue and be happy.  There's nothing wrong with saying "This isn't for me--I'm out" and moving elsewhere.

 

The problem is that WWE fans--all WWE fans at some point--think they have the power.  We don't.  We never have, we never will, and you have to determine how much of this you're going to enjoy knowing that.

 

Personally, I can find entertainment in fantasy booking stuff in my head like the soap opera it is.  Whether it's good or bad?  I prefer good but bad can be entertaining. But that's me.  If that's not you, that's cool.  There are other alternatives.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

well yeah, your attitude is exactly what the wwe wants right now. and hey, a lot of people have taken the route of not watching, in case you haven't noticed. i barely watch the show at all, unless i know there's something specifically that will interest me. i'm more interested in this sort of thing.

 

but accept that people are going to watch. this argument has been done a thousand times. consider it an addiction. people just aren't going to walk away. they can't. think of it like following a sports team. you stick with them no matter what, even if they suck and you get so little pleasure from it. people have the same loyalty to wwe. they have the same loyalty to certain wrestlers. that's just how it is. vince probably wants them all to go away, though he would be losing a sizable chunk of his fanbase at this poin. you would finally get the utterly dead, apathetic crowds you so crave though. i mean, that happens anyway, but magnify that so much more.

 

so people watch. still. in hope, in stupidity, maybe just for that one tiny moment like last year's wrestlemania. i WAS watching at the time and let me tell you, it felt like the years of garbage were worth it just for the conclusion. so what can you do? and if people do watch, and do go to the shows, and pay money, they have a right to express their opinion. it's not a new thing for fans to decide who their guy is. the thing that's different now is vince is so adamantly pushing back and sticking his fingers in his ears. i'm sure you've heard this argument before, but it's like ignoring austin in 97, or cena in 05, or having a WrestleMania17 main event of The Rock vs Test or something, with Austin fighting for the european title. you can say Bryan isn't at their level of popularity but that's because the whole show isn't as popular as it was. in terms of popularity within the roster, last year he was probably even more over than the rest of it than guys like Austin and Rock were to their rosters. at least you had guys like Foley and Taker then. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Raziel403, on 18 Mar 2015 - 2:06 PM, said:

 

JCM, on 18 Mar 2015 - 2:02 PM, said:

The genie's out of the bottle we're not going back to 1985. WWE promotes the hell out of social media, they promote shoot interviews on their own network, and they are having Heyman cut awful quasi shoot promos to hype Lesnar/Reigns. Every bit of fan backlash they get they've brought on themselves.

 

People will only sit back and enjoy the show when they stop having their intelligence insulted, and they get a story worth investing in. Who is Roman Reigns and why should I care if he wins at Mania?

Well, if you've been actually watching and not hate watching, you'd actually see that they *are* telling that story, but ya'll are too busy bitching that its not Bryan in Reigns spot, and refuse to care.

 

The story of the babyface that not many people actually like or want to see on top trying to get the belt off the awesome ass kicking, most entertaining guy in the company doesn't seem to be a story most people want to see.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

You're basically saying "oh just play along" which is fine. But clearly the fans are at a point where they're pushing back and saying "actually, no, this is bullshit, we don't want this".

 

No--what we're saying if if you don't like what's being presented to you, don't watch.  This is an option.  Why on earth would anyone watch or keep up with a TV show they despise and causes them grief is beyond me.  We don't listen to music we don't like or eat food that our tastebuds find unappealing.  I get that some griping is part of the package, but this has become a bit much.

 

There is other wrestling--Lucha Underground, NJPW, old matches on WWE Network.  There are at least a dozen avenues for any wrestling fan to travel and find what they deem as quality viewing.  So go find your avenue and be happy.  There's nothing wrong with saying "This isn't for me--I'm out" and moving elsewhere.

 

The problem is that WWE fans--all WWE fans at some point--think they have the power.  We don't.  We never have, we never will, and you have to determine how much of this you're going to enjoy knowing that.

 

Personally, I can find entertainment in fantasy booking stuff in my head like the soap opera it is.  Whether it's good or bad?  I prefer good but bad can be entertaining. But that's me.  If that's not you, that's cool.  There are other alternatives.

 

 

why do you keep saying "we" like the anti-smark thing is some collective hive mind? I very specifically replied to Gregg who summed it up as theater and pretty much said sit back and enjoy it. everything you said is completely unrelated to my reply to him. 

 

again, plenty of people have done that, and plenty more people probably will. saying that it's become a bit much is missing the point. you could probably apply to that to any point in wwe's history. the difference is that now, for the first time, it has finally gone beyond the just bitching for bitching's sake because the company is very, very obviously ignoring the desires of pretty much the entire fanbase in favour of something that isn't going to work and was never going to work, and they're also very actively trying to piss people off in doing so. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Raziel403, on 18 Mar 2015 - 2:06 PM, said:

 

JCM, on 18 Mar 2015 - 2:02 PM, said:

The genie's out of the bottle we're not going back to 1985. WWE promotes the hell out of social media, they promote shoot interviews on their own network, and they are having Heyman cut awful quasi shoot promos to hype Lesnar/Reigns. Every bit of fan backlash they get they've brought on themselves.

 

People will only sit back and enjoy the show when they stop having their intelligence insulted, and they get a story worth investing in. Who is Roman Reigns and why should I care if he wins at Mania?

Well, if you've been actually watching and not hate watching, you'd actually see that they *are* telling that story, but ya'll are too busy bitching that its not Bryan in Reigns spot, and refuse to care.

 

The story of the babyface that not many people actually like or want to see on top trying to get the belt off the awesome ass kicking, most entertaining guy in the company doesn't seem to be a story most people want to see.

 

Goalpost moving.  You asked "Who is Reigns and why should I care if he wins?"  They are telling that story.  Your interpertition that the majority of viewers doesn't like Reigns and that everyone loves Lesnar is clouding the truth that they're telling the story of "No one in the world gives Reigns a shot in hell of beating Lesnar, and he almost has to because right now Lesnar is possibly taking the belt and running away to UFC.".  It's not rocket science.  Crowd seems to be getting plenty in to Reigns, and we have no idea how the actual match is gonna be, outside of Lesnar rules, and Reigns has proven that he can connect the dots when someone lays it out for him.  

 

Goes to the main point of all this, people hate Reigns because he's not Bryan, period.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

You're basically saying "oh just play along" which is fine. But clearly the fans are at a point where they're pushing back and saying "actually, no, this is bullshit, we don't want this".

 

No--what we're saying if if you don't like what's being presented to you, don't watch.  This is an option.  Why on earth would anyone watch or keep up with a TV show they despise and causes them grief is beyond me.  We don't listen to music we don't like or eat food that our tastebuds find unappealing.  I get that some griping is part of the package, but this has become a bit much.

 

There is other wrestling--Lucha Underground, NJPW, old matches on WWE Network.  There are at least a dozen avenues for any wrestling fan to travel and find what they deem as quality viewing.  So go find your avenue and be happy.  There's nothing wrong with saying "This isn't for me--I'm out" and moving elsewhere.

 

The problem is that WWE fans--all WWE fans at some point--think they have the power.  We don't.  We never have, we never will, and you have to determine how much of this you're going to enjoy knowing that.

 

Personally, I can find entertainment in fantasy booking stuff in my head like the soap opera it is.  Whether it's good or bad?  I prefer good but bad can be entertaining. But that's me.  If that's not you, that's cool.  There are other alternatives.

 

 

why do you keep saying "we" like the anti-smark thing is some collective hive mind? I very specifically replied to Gregg who summed it up as theater and pretty much said sit back and enjoy it. everything you said is completely unrelated to my reply to him. 

 

again, plenty of people have done that, and plenty more people probably will. saying that it's become a bit much is missing the point. you could probably apply to that to any point in wwe's history. the difference is that now, for the first time, it has finally gone beyond the just bitching for bitching's sake because the company is very, very obviously ignoring the desires of pretty much the entire fanbase in favour of something that isn't going to work and was never going to work, and they're also very actively trying to piss people off in doing so. 

 

Please, prove the hyperbole of "pretty much the entire fanbase" is shitting on this story, because we seem to be watching different shows the past couple weeks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

Raziel403, on 18 Mar 2015 - 2:06 PM, said:

 

JCM, on 18 Mar 2015 - 2:02 PM, said:

The genie's out of the bottle we're not going back to 1985. WWE promotes the hell out of social media, they promote shoot interviews on their own network, and they are having Heyman cut awful quasi shoot promos to hype Lesnar/Reigns. Every bit of fan backlash they get they've brought on themselves.

 

People will only sit back and enjoy the show when they stop having their intelligence insulted, and they get a story worth investing in. Who is Roman Reigns and why should I care if he wins at Mania?

Well, if you've been actually watching and not hate watching, you'd actually see that they *are* telling that story, but ya'll are too busy bitching that its not Bryan in Reigns spot, and refuse to care.

 

The story of the babyface that not many people actually like or want to see on top trying to get the belt off the awesome ass kicking, most entertaining guy in the company doesn't seem to be a story most people want to see.

 

Goalpost moving.  You asked "Who is Reigns and why should I care if he wins?"  They are telling that story.  Your interpertition that the majority of viewers doesn't like Reigns and that everyone loves Lesnar is clouding the truth that they're telling the story of "No one in the world gives Reigns a shot in hell of beating Lesnar, and he almost has to because right now Lesnar is possibly taking the belt and running away to UFC.".  It's not rocket science.  Crowd seems to be getting plenty in to Reigns, and we have no idea how the actual match is gonna be, outside of Lesnar rules, and Reigns has proven that he can connect the dots when someone lays it out for him.  

 

Goes to the main point of all this, people hate Reigns because he's not Bryan, period.

 

 

no they don't. they hate him because he's just some random guy in that spot. did they hate him before he won the rumble? no. because he was in his place. the same way they don't hate tons of guys. if jimmy uso or xavier woods suddenly won next year's rumble, they'd be hated too. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

well yeah, your attitude is exactly what the wwe wants right now. and hey, a lot of people have taken the route of not watching, in case you haven't noticed. i barely watch the show at all, unless i know there's something specifically that will interest me. i'm more interested in this sort of thing.

 

but accept that people are going to watch. this argument has been done a thousand times. consider it an addiction. people just aren't going to walk away. they can't. think of it like following a sports team. you stick with them no matter what, even if they suck and you get so little pleasure from it. people have the same loyalty to wwe. they have the same loyalty to certain wrestlers. that's just how it is. vince probably wants them all to go away, though he would be losing a sizable chunk of his fanbase at this poin. you would finally get the utterly dead, apathetic crowds you so crave though. i mean, that happens anyway, but magnify that so much more.

 

so people watch. still. in hope, in stupidity, maybe just for that one tiny moment like last year's wrestlemania. i WAS watching at the time and let me tell you, it felt like the years of garbage were worth it just for the conclusion. so what can you do? and if people do watch, and do go to the shows, and pay money, they have a right to express their opinion. it's not a new thing for fans to decide who their guy is. the thing that's different now is vince is so adamantly pushing back and sticking his fingers in his ears. i'm sure you've heard this argument before, but it's like ignoring austin in 97, or cena in 05, or having a WrestleMania17 main event of The Rock vs Test or something, with Austin fighting for the european title. you can say Bryan isn't at their level of popularity but that's because the whole show isn't as popular as it was. in terms of popularity within the roster, last year he was probably even more over than the rest of it than guys like Austin and Rock were to their rosters. at least you had guys like Foley and Taker then. 

 

Thank you for insulting my attitude. Didn't know I had one. Thank you for telling me what I don't notice.  Thank you for telling me what I want and how I want it.

 

We ALL have the right to express our opinion.  Not just you.  Accept that not everyone agrees with you.  That runs both ways.

 

And now you can say we but I can't.  That's quaint.

 

So Vince McMahon broke your heart and made you lose your smile is what I'm getting from all this. He stole your childhood.  It happens to all of us at some point and often by someone better than VKM. It's OK.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...