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MARCH 2015 WRESTLING DISCUSSION


RIPPA

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Where does Eric Bischoff's 1994-1996 rank as one of the all-time periods as a booker? Is it up there with Vince McMahon in the late '90s? Giant Baba in the early '90s? Um...don't know who else you all would consider as having all time great periods of booking over a short period of time. 

And you said *I* had shitty opinions.

 

 

Well, I was asking a question, not really making an opinion. Just trying to get some discussion started.

 

I don't really know where I'd rank it, thus opening it up and seeing what consensus is.

 

Stop trolling and answer the question (or don't, just stop trolling please), champ. 

 

Not trolling, we've been through this, not agreeing with you is *not* trolling.  .

 

Bischoff never booked.  During his tenure of running WCW, he had Flair, Dusty, Sullivan, Russo, Nash, and arguably Hogan booking at one point or another.  He had final say, but its well known that Bischoff let the inmates run the asylum.

 

As far as things that occured in that time... WCW from 94-96 had the abrupt heel turn of Flair to sedate Hogan, Hogan having full creative control, a Starrcade main evented by Hogan vs. Beefcake for the title, two of the most universally panned PPV's in the first 2 Uncensored's (With the DQ in a no DQ match, and Hogan and Savage going over 10 guys in a Tower of Doom match), Hogan's neutering of Vader, and the DQ World Title switch.   

 

The nWo was lightning in a bottle that hasn't been recreated since, and Bischoff's business practices during said time period has been largely credited with WCW's eventual death as the time to pay those outragous contracts came calling and by then, Turner was gone and the AOL execs didn't like all the red on the ledger.

 

So, to answer your question, Bischoff doesn't rate as a booker, and as a VP, while his practices did cause McMahon to change direction in the WWF, eventually caused the destruction of his own company.

 

So in short, Bischoff was the definitation of a one trick pony.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Don't call me a fucking troll again.

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I didn't posit a point for you to agree or disagree with, nor do I particularly care what you think or if you ever agree or disagree with me. I asked a question. 

 

You need to calm down, son. You made up a position that I never actually took and then decided to use it to try and attack me because you're still seething about acting childishly regarding Bryan fans in a March Madness thread, of all things. 

 

Now, if you want to troll me and insult me, that's fine. Just please PM me with it so that a) it's easier for all of us to ignore and so b)we can keep it from spamming up the thread and so that I don't get unceremoniously banned. Oh, and I'll call you what I want to call you as long as a mod doesn't step in, though I'm assuming Rippa will be here to tell us to knock this off soon.

 

This is the last post in which I'll address this, troll. Move on. Thanks for your compliance. 

 

On another note, I love that NXT is having a show at the same time as a couple of other indies during WM weekend. I love that the company has had enough of indies making money off their fans traveling to WM and has decided to take back that audience for themselves. Canny move, Vince. 

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Reading yesterday's Observer, holy crap Demott was a piece of shit.  Then again, so is Matt Wichlinski who was taking pictures of the women's asses.  Paige and Summer Rae were the main roster ladies taped by him.  It might be from at latest 2013, but I'm hoping all the cameras they have prevent this shit from happening again.  I'm sure this has been discussed to death on here, but if you have the Observer it's worth reading.

 

I may hate myself for asking this but I have been loosely following the Demott story and don't know alot of details so here goes: what was he taping them for/doing?

 

He was filming their asses, especially in certain situations like bent over rows while working out.

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I didn't posit a point for you to agree or disagree with, nor do I particularly care what you think or if you ever agree or disagree with me. I asked a question. 

 

You need to calm down, son. You made up a position that I never actually took and then decided to use it to try and attack me because you're still seething about acting childishly regarding Bryan fans in a March Madness thread, of all things. 

 

Now, if you want to troll me and insult me, that's fine. Just please PM me with it so that a) it's easier for all of us to ignore and so b)we can keep it from spamming up the thread and so that I don't get unceremoniously banned. Oh, and I'll call you what I want to call you as long as a mod doesn't step in, though I'm assuming Rippa will be here to tell us to knock this off soon.

 

This is the last post in which I'll address this, troll. Move on. Thanks for your compliance. 

 

On another note, I love that NXT is having a show at the same time as a couple of other indies during WM weekend. I love that the company has had enough of indies making money off their fans traveling to WM and has decided to take back that audience for themselves. Canny move, Vince. 

But I did answer your question.

 

Now fuck off.

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Reading yesterday's Observer, holy crap Demott was a piece of shit.  Then again, so is Matt Wichlinski who was taking pictures of the women's asses.  Paige and Summer Rae were the main roster ladies taped by him.  It might be from at latest 2013, but I'm hoping all the cameras they have prevent this shit from happening again.  I'm sure this has been discussed to death on here, but if you have the Observer it's worth reading.

 

I may hate myself for asking this but I have been loosely following the Demott story and don't know alot of details so here goes: what was he taping them for/doing?

 

He was filming their asses, especially in certain situations like bent over rows while working out.

 

 

I haven't read it yet...did Meltzer make the same "not making excuses for it but totally making excuses for it" argument he did on his podcast?  The one where it's pretty much, "hey, it's wrestling and that's how people talk and act in wrestling." 

 

"Hey it's a male-dominated workplace, that's how people talk and act in a male-dominated workplace."

 

"Hey it's the mostly white South, that's how people talk and act in the mostly white South."

 

And so on.

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Reading yesterday's Observer, holy crap Demott was a piece of shit.  Then again, so is Matt Wichlinski who was taking pictures of the women's asses.  Paige and Summer Rae were the main roster ladies taped by him.  It might be from at latest 2013, but I'm hoping all the cameras they have prevent this shit from happening again.  I'm sure this has been discussed to death on here, but if you have the Observer it's worth reading.

 

I may hate myself for asking this but I have been loosely following the Demott story and don't know alot of details so here goes: what was he taping them for/doing?

 

He was filming their asses, especially in certain situations like bent over rows while working out.

 

 

I haven't read it yet...did Meltzer make the same "not making excuses for it but totally making excuses for it" argument he did on his podcast?  The one where it's pretty much, "hey, it's wrestling and that's how people talk and act in wrestling." 

 

"Hey it's a male-dominated workplace, that's how people talk and act in a male-dominated workplace."

 

"Hey it's the mostly white South, that's how people talk and act in the mostly white South."

 

And so on.

 

Yeah, pretty much.  Not sure if he exactly means to be making excuses for it, but he pretty much is.

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Reading yesterday's Observer, holy crap Demott was a piece of shit.  Then again, so is Matt Wichlinski who was taking pictures of the women's asses.  Paige and Summer Rae were the main roster ladies taped by him.  It might be from at latest 2013, but I'm hoping all the cameras they have prevent this shit from happening again.  I'm sure this has been discussed to death on here, but if you have the Observer it's worth reading.

Sounds like that guy could do raw recaps here.

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Reading yesterday's Observer, holy crap Demott was a piece of shit.  Then again, so is Matt Wichlinski who was taking pictures of the women's asses.  Paige and Summer Rae were the main roster ladies taped by him.  It might be from at latest 2013, but I'm hoping all the cameras they have prevent this shit from happening again.  I'm sure this has been discussed to death on here, but if you have the Observer it's worth reading.

Sounds like that guy could do raw recaps here.

 

I pointed out that out before and got laughed at. Might as well be r/WrestleWithThePlot sometimes

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Reading yesterday's Observer, holy crap Demott was a piece of shit.  Then again, so is Matt Wichlinski who was taking pictures of the women's asses.  Paige and Summer Rae were the main roster ladies taped by him.  It might be from at latest 2013, but I'm hoping all the cameras they have prevent this shit from happening again.  I'm sure this has been discussed to death on here, but if you have the Observer it's worth reading.

 

I may hate myself for asking this but I have been loosely following the Demott story and don't know alot of details so here goes: what was he taping them for/doing?

 

He was filming their asses, especially in certain situations like bent over rows while working out.

 

I was scared it was a Chuck Berry scenerio. 

This is your cousin Marvin Berry. You know that new way you wanted to film womens butts? Well listen to this.

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I didn't posit a point for you to agree or disagree with, nor do I particularly care what you think or if you ever agree or disagree with me. I asked a question. 

 

You need to calm down, son. You made up a position that I never actually took and then decided to use it to try and attack me because you're still seething about acting childishly regarding Bryan fans in a March Madness thread, of all things. 

 

Now, if you want to troll me and insult me, that's fine. Just please PM me with it so that a) it's easier for all of us to ignore and so b)we can keep it from spamming up the thread and so that I don't get unceremoniously banned. Oh, and I'll call you what I want to call you as long as a mod doesn't step in, though I'm assuming Rippa will be here to tell us to knock this off soon.

 

This is the last post in which I'll address this, troll. Move on. Thanks for your compliance. 

 

On another note, I love that NXT is having a show at the same time as a couple of other indies during WM weekend. I love that the company has had enough of indies making money off their fans traveling to WM and has decided to take back that audience for themselves. Canny move, Vince. 

 

To be fair, is there a time during WrestleMania weekend when a major indy ISN'T doing a show? 

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To chime in on the earlier question about Bischoff... While he did have final approval on everything he was never a booker in the classical sense of the term. His originality was limited to ripping off an angle from NJPW and since he was basically given a blank check(s) to play with it succeeded amazingly well. However, you have to say that WCW was good despite Bischoff rather than because of him. By handing the book over to in-ring talent, we wound up getting a lot of great stuff simply because the booker(s) would focus energy on whatever angle they were in and fill the rest of the show with random 10-15 minute matches, many of which were really awesome. That was the one constant of WCW programming during the Bischoff years, you never knew what to expect from the mid-card. We used to have this whiney little shit around here who would constantly gripe about "wrestlers just having wrestling matches", hell, that's what I watch for and why I loved WCW (or at least a big part of it). They didn't do a lot of squashes as they had in the JCP days, but you might get really random stuff like Steve Regal vs. La Parka, Konnan against Lash Larue, all sorts of fun stuff that didn't advance any major angles, didn't really move guys up or down on the card, but just lots of good wrestling. Fun times.

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I remember in Jericho's book he told a story where he was wrestling Chavo Jr. who was getting over with his horse Pepe.  So the bookers told Jericho to beat Chavo, then snap Pepe in half.  Jericho and Chavo talked about it, Jericho went ahead and broke Pepe, but then Chavo attacked him with an aluminum bat with the horse head on it.  They never bothered to run it by anyone, just ran the angle themselves.  Jericho said if he'd done the same thing in WWE, they would've been fired, but in WCW nobody cared, nobody talked to him about it even.  He also told the story about Alex Wright and Hardbody Harrison arguing over who got to be the heel.  Two good little illustrations over how Bischoff or whomever maybe booked the main events well, but basically let the lower guys do whatever.

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A lot of the early 90s WCW undercard might as well have existed in its own galaxy and was meaningless in relation to anything else, but watch that stuff again (on the Network for $9.99 a month). It's insanely fun to watch.

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Where does Eric Bischoff's 1994-1996 rank as one of the all-time periods as a booker? Is it up there with Vince McMahon in the late '90s? Giant Baba in the early '90s? Um...don't know who else you all would consider as having all time great periods of booking over a short period of time.

Not especially high. He caught lightning in a bottle. That's not easy to do and he did it. He gets credit for that. But the week to week programming of the top angles was pretty lousy. His legacy is signing up all the top talent he could and then really not giving a crap about anything below the main event. That's why there's so much gold on the old nitros. Random guys who could work were put in random matchups and given time. That's just never going to happen again in a major promotion.

On the bold, isn't that basically half or more of raw ever since it went to three hours?

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I remember in Jericho's book he told a story where he was wrestling Chavo Jr. who was getting over with his horse Pepe.  So the bookers told Jericho to beat Chavo, then snap Pepe in half.  Jericho and Chavo talked about it, Jericho went ahead and broke Pepe, but then Chavo attacked him with an aluminum bat with the horse head on it.  They never bothered to run it by anyone, just ran the angle themselves.  Jericho said if he'd done the same thing in WWE, they would've been fired, but in WCW nobody cared, nobody talked to him about it even.  He also told the story about Alex Wright and Hardbody Harrison arguing over who got to be the heel.  Two good little illustrations over how Bischoff or whomever maybe booked the main events well, but basically let the lower guys do whatever.

 

Hell, Bischoff and co. were paying so little attention that Jericho started his own feud with Goldberg without them noticing at first. ATM Eric bankrupted a company and should never been described as a success at anything other than blind luck. 

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Did he really get to play, or was he just Sophie sending endless "Hollywood Hogan should be further up the card" e-mails? And I say this as an unabashed late-era WCW fan.

The problem was that there were at least four Sophies in WCW, and the one Sophie didn't know what the other Sophies were doing.

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