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NBA - 2014-15 Regular Season - 2nd Half


ChesterCopperpot

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What in hell are you talking about? The problem isn't even "superstar athlete has power over personnel decisions". The problem is "superstar athlete has power over personnel decisions and it was wielded in such a way that an extremely talented player got set aside because that player didn't sign with superstar athlete's agent."

 

Why the hell are you fussing at me for all the wrong reasons?  Or fussing at all. I wasn't even talking about that.  And I even said most folks wouldn't disagree with that sentiment,  If you're going to argue, at least pick on the actual disagreement at hand.

 

My point is this sort of thing happens a lot more than gets reported, so why get in a snit about it now?  It ain't brand new, stop acting like it is.

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I don't know how much power Lebron has in Cleveland(he definitely has sway), but I don't think the only reason the Cavs traded Wiggins for Love was due to him not signing with Lebron's team.  I'm sure it was a factor because the behind the scene agents' game is always more of a factor than we(fans) know, but not the only one.  Plus, I don't see Windhorst "reporting" it on ESPN.  I think it's just his conclusion. Rationale one maybe, but I don't see a write-up on ESPN.

 

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/02/20/brian-windhorst-andrew-wiggins-would-still-be-with-cavaliers-if-he-signed-with-lebron-james-agent/

 

If he does indeed have all this GM power, and it's weird people mock him for the Wiggins trade, but rarely credit him for the season changing Mozgov, Shump, and Smith trades.  If you really believe he's the Czar there, he had to okay those trades too.

 

Back then, more than one NBA expert would have made the trade.  I'm still not sure Kevin Love is bad for the Cavs too.  Despite his numbers dropping(yeah, yeah especially the pts), the Cavs have played much better with him on the court over the past month.  I don't think he's 100 percent either, but he's doing other things on the court for them and it's leading to a high plus/minus when he's on the court.  His defense will always be glaring, but I watched yesterday's game he was definitely trying and moving around hard on that end of the floor.  I was surprise to see it.  It will be interesting to see if he re-signs though.  Definitely an ego shift with the constant fan abuse and media scrutiny rolled in with a being 3rd option.

Edited by _MJ_
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It not being on ESPN.com is why I want more information.  I repeat--I'm not saying Windhorst is lying or wrong.  But I need more details to draw a full conclusion.  But again, if it's true--this sort of thing has happened before.  Nothing new to see here.

 

The the idea of power in sports fascinates me.  We say we want players to hold more of it.  But when specific athletes appear to actually wield that power, we get bent out of shape.

 

And yeah, plenty were supporting the Love-Wiggins trade when it went down.  Most everyone figured Wiggins would be really good in a few years, but Love is a known entity and it made sense for LeBron/Cleveland to want the sure thing.  Now if Love bolts after this season, the trade will be a bust for Cleveland.  But can it be rationally explained why the trade happened?  Absolutely.

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I think every GM in the league would take Love over Wiggins in that situation. Love is still a better player than Wiggins. His scoring is down, and so are his percentages, but he's a double-double guy who also can pass the ball. Cleveland's in a win-now mode.Love gets you to the NBA Finals a lot faster than Wiggins. Wiggins is in a spot where he has an offense run around him. He'd be a third banana on the Cavs behind two guy who need the ball to do what they want.

I'm also not sure why everyone thinks it's a shoe-in for Love to go to LA. He played one season at UCLA. He'll make way more money in Cleveland. If he's concerned about his "brand" or marketability and the like, he'll get on TV just as much since he's on LeBron's team.

Also, Cleveland's really f'n good. I think they're going to make the finals. I love ATL and would rather see them in the finals, or my man Kyle Lowry. But having the best player in the world on your team (and LBJ is still that guy) goes a long, long way.

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I know it's not the playoffs, but GSW's win over San Antonio felt absolutely huge. It felt like I was watching The Spawn of The Spurs with better players almost everywhere on the court. GSW is unbeatable when they get something from their bench. And their second five could be a playoff team in the East.

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Similarly, Toronto beat the snot out of Atlanta in Atlanta and beat them on their home court for the second time this year and taking the season series 3-1. Lou Williams reserves a special game for Atlanta it would seem. Also, Toronto's inside game and rebounding really takes advantage of the Hawks' weaknesses.

 

Tony Parker was MIA last night and the Spurs had like 3 points from their backcourt well into the 3rd IIRC. They were still in the game at that point, so if Parker finds some form it'll be a lot more competitive. He ended up going 0-4 from the field.

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Has Kevin Love played worse than he did last year? Without a doubt. Has he played up to expectations? Probably not, but I think everyone had unreasonable expectations for him going in to this season. If you look at his statistics, he is one of the highest in the NBA in +/- and in the top twenty players in the NBA in Win Shares. He has a clearly defined role in the offense, and some nights he plays better than others. He has looked a little banged up all season, and in games against less physical power forwards he is way more active on the offensive end. I think he knows his body's limitations right now and knows what he can do on any given night to help the team win. 

 

Five years from now, will Andrew Wiggins be an all star while the Cavs are stuck with an aging line up with a lot of questions? Sure. But if you're from Cleveland, like I am, it doesn't really matter. You can play the long game after you win a championship. It's hard to preach patience to a fan base that knows the team has a very finite window. On this team right now, Andrew Wiggins would be a disaster. He would be a worse version of Iman Shumpert but with one thousand times more scrutiny. Kevin Love would be putting up 25 and 10 in Minnesota with the highest usage rate in the NBA and fans would be rabid that a trade didn't happen while people like Bill Simmons would write ten thousand words on how inept David Griffin is for making the same passive mistakes the previous regime did during the first Lebron era. Until a Cleveland team wins on the court, they will always be a whipping boy in the media off of it, as they are consistently judged for results and not for process. 

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All I ask from the basketball gods is for the Nets to make the playoffs so I get my free tickets to see the Hawks blow them away in games 3 & 4 en route to a sweep. Oh, and also James Dolan getting struck by lightning so that the Knicks can become a real NBA team again in my lifetime. I don't think I'm asking for too much, right?

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So did ABC decide to stop punishing us with Knicks games? I could have sworn that Cavs/NYK was sched to air today.

Yes, this is like the first time in forever they pulled an NBA telecast and didn't replace it with another game.
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For any/all criticism the Sixers got for trading away MCW...

Isiah Canaan was a hell of a pick-up. He can really shoot. They trotted out a starting five with him, Covington and Jason Richardson. Those are three guys who can shoot the ball. Teams are going to have to stretch up a bit more now instead of letting dudes shoot non-stop.

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I wonder how the fans of the 76ers are taking this rebuild.  It certainly is different and if it works out it could be brilliant but it's gotta be tough on the fanbase.  I hear a few of their players are not too bad.  I imagine it's lessened by the fact that they weren't going to win much anyway.  I've always said if your going to be bad go all the way with it but this is taking it to a new level.  Will be interested to see how this plays out.

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Do the Thunder own their draft pick this year?  Honestly they should shut Durant down to make sure his foot is 100%, before he does something that affects the rest of his career.  They might have the talent to get to the 8 seed without him, but their championship odds aren't realistic without a healthy Durant.  They need to think long term with him, because he is their only chance at a title for the foreseeable future.

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http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/detailed

 

Do the Thunder own their draft pick this year?  Honestly they should shut Durant down to make sure his foot is 100%, before he does something that affects the rest of his career.  They might have the talent to get to the 8 seed without him, but their championship odds aren't realistic without a healthy Durant.  They need to think long term with him, because he is their only chance at a title for the foreseeable future.

 

2015 first round draft pick to Philadelphia

Oklahoma City's 1st round pick to Philadelphia (via Cleveland to Denver) protected for selections 1-18 in 2015, 1-15 in 2016 and 1-15 in 2017; if Oklahoma City has not conveyed a 1st round pick to Philadelphia by 2017, then Oklahoma City will instead convey its 2018 2nd round pick and 2019 2nd round pick to Philadelphia [Cleveland-New York-Oklahoma City, 1/5/2015; Cleveland-Denver, 1/7/2015; Denver-Philadelphia, 2/19/2015]

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http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/detailed

 

Do the Thunder own their draft pick this year?  Honestly they should shut Durant down to make sure his foot is 100%, before he does something that affects the rest of his career.  They might have the talent to get to the 8 seed without him, but their championship odds aren't realistic without a healthy Durant.  They need to think long term with him, because he is their only chance at a title for the foreseeable future.

 

2015 first round draft pick to Philadelphia

Oklahoma City's 1st round pick to Philadelphia (via Cleveland to Denver) protected for selections 1-18 in 2015, 1-15 in 2016 and 1-15 in 2017; if Oklahoma City has not conveyed a 1st round pick to Philadelphia by 2017, then Oklahoma City will instead convey its 2018 2nd round pick and 2019 2nd round pick to Philadelphia [Cleveland-New York-Oklahoma City, 1/5/2015; Cleveland-Denver, 1/7/2015; Denver-Philadelphia, 2/19/2015]

Sheesh, is there anything more convoluted than NBA draft trades?

 

So they are rushing their superstar back repeatedly to hopefully make the 8th seed when they could see what they can do without him and get a lottery pick if they don't make the playoffs.  Their chance to get to the 8th seed without Durant aren't good, but neither is their future if Durant develops chronic foot problems.  They might want to see how far Westbrook can take them and shut him down Durant for the season. 

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I wonder how the fans of the 76ers are taking this rebuild.  It certainly is different and if it works out it could be brilliant but it's gotta be tough on the fanbase.  I hear a few of their players are not too bad.  I imagine it's lessened by the fact that they weren't going to win much anyway.  I've always said if your going to be bad go all the way with it but this is taking it to a new level.  Will be interested to see how this plays out.

 

Everyone's pretty fine with what Hinkie's doing.

You have to understand how little people here cared about the Sixers since Iverson's prime. Philly is a total basketball town. But there's six D-1 colleges and even the high school scene here has a good following. There's no shortage of quality basketball. There's also the other three pro teams, and all three of those teams were successful.

No one even cared when the Sixers were last "good." We knew they weren't winning the title. They sneaked into the playoffs, caught a break when Rose got hurt and stole a first round playoff series, and were dismissed.

 

The in-game experience itself (before the new owners bought the team) was horrible. I used to have an NBA podcast. I watch like 3-4 games a night AND go to maybe 15 college games in person. Basketball's what I do. And I refused to go to Sixers games because of how terrible going to games was. It was like being held hostage in a Wang Chung video, with a never ending stream of lights and noise. They still had Hip Hop, a mascot my wife once described as a "horrible rapist." No one wanted to deal with a borderline 8 seed that literally could cause you a seizure to watch.

They've completely changed. They toned down the amount of music/noise/lightshows during the games (but have an awesome 3D intro). It's just a way better experience.

The marketers of the team also make no bones that the team is going to lose games. They get it. And I respect that. They have to tear it down and rebuild from the start. The only people who really were distraught about the MCW trade were the morons on sports radio who talk about basketball three times a year (it's an all-Eagles format), and those guys don't know a thing about analytics. Sometimes an "old-school" guy like Larry Brown or Doug Collins (former Sixers coaches) will call in and complain about the analytics approach and whine, too. But Collins flamed out here because he's a garbage coach who can't judge talent.

So everyone is all-in. We know it's going to take a while. But trust me -- as soon as that team gets playoff-level good, people will be in love. It's a really fascinating study and I'm glad I get to see it every single night.

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