This Offseason In NFL Stupidity

[Burgundy LaRue]

Sorry, didn't know my emotions were such an affront to you.  I'll keep that in mind when I see a post from you now on.

 

If you can't or don't see how fucking daffy the conversation of what form of abuse is worse--then bless your heart.

[glfpunk]

A little over the top is all.  It's a message board, I'm not really into rating the importance of conversations.  When the statement about a subject is made that this is something five times worse than the Ray Rice thing, it's a natural progression of the conversation to think of what it might be and whether that is indeed better or worse than the Ray Rice thing.   

[supremebve]

A little over the top is all.  It's a message board, I'm not really into rating the importance of conversations.  When the statement about a subject is made that this is something five times worse than the Ray Rice thing, it's a natural progression of the conversation to think of what it might be and whether that is indeed better or worse than the Ray Rice thing.   

This entire subject is ridiculous.  The fact that a thus far imaginary tape, that is almost certainly an extortion plot, being marketed as 5 times worse than Ray Rice is making all of us kind of stupid.  We've all essentially made up different stories in our minds about what Dez could have done, when we don't even know he did anything.  Ranking crimes based on who and/or what the victim is not really a constuctive conversation.  It is a conversation that will always end badly.

[Burgundy LaRue]

It's a progression into absolute absurdity.  This sort of thing isn't a contest.  We've all been guilty of it, but this dialogue took a dark turn.

[BobbyWhioux]

 

A little over the top is all.  It's a message board, I'm not really into rating the importance of conversations.  When the statement about a subject is made that this is something five times worse than the Ray Rice thing, it's a natural progression of the conversation to think of what it might be and whether that is indeed better or worse than the Ray Rice thing.   

This entire subject is ridiculous.  The fact that a thus far imaginary tape, that is almost certainly an extortion plot, being marketed as 5 times worse than Ray Rice is making all of us kind of stupid.  We've all essentially made up different stories in our minds about what Dez could have done, when we don't even know he did anything.  Ranking crimes based on who and/or what the victim is not really a constuctive conversation.  It is a conversation that will always end badly.

 

Or, really, the fact that it's being "marketed" at all, by anyone.

[glfpunk]

What are you going to do when/if you finally see the video? You're going to instantly make a decision in your head and say "oh that's not even close to as bad as the Ray Rice thing" or "wow, that's way worse", and you're going to do it because the comparison was already made in the story.  It's pretty simple. 

[Burgundy LaRue]

I'd like to think we're smart enough to simply say "Wow, that's awful" or "Geez, that was overblown."  At the very least, let's not have workrates on potentially abusive situtations.

[glfpunk]

Have you ever heard of a prison sentence? They come in blocks of time and they typically vary based on the severity of the crime. 

[ivpvideos]

I would rank OJ Simpson #1, Rae Carruth #2, Vick #3, Ray Lewis #4, Donte Stallworth #5, Ray Rice #6. I am sure I am forgetting a bunch of crimes at this time.

[JRGoldman]

I would rank OJ Simpson #1, Rae Carruth #2, Vick #3, Ray Lewis #4, Donte Stallworth #5, Ray Rice #6. I am sure I am forgetting a bunch of crimes at this time.

 

Aaron Hernandez? Dude is a serial killer. 

 

From the description of this Dez Bryant video, the only thing that interests me about watching a man get in a fist fight with a woman in a Walmart parking lot is if one of the people in the background screams "WORLD STAR" or not.

[Burgundy LaRue]

Have you ever heard of a prison sentence? They come in blocks of time and they typically vary based on the severity of the crime. 

 

I'm not a court of law.  Thanks for letting me know what that is, though.

[supremebve]

I would rank OJ Simpson #1, Rae Carruth #2, Vick #3, Ray Lewis #4, Donte Stallworth #5, Ray Rice #6. I am sure I am forgetting a bunch of crimes at this time.

Donte Stallworth shouldn't be on this list.  I'm willing to bet that his situation could have happened to each and every one of us.  He went out the night, came home and went to sleep, and hit a guy who jumped out in front of him the next day while getting breakfast.  He most likely would have been found innocent if it went to trial, but he chose to plead guilty against his lawyers wishes.  Ray Lewis is also not as cut and dry as people tend to remember, the prosecuter even said that he charged him with murder despite understanding that he didn't actually commit the murder.

[ivpvideos]

Can't believe I forgot Aaron Hernandez.

Ray Lewis I always felt never actually commited a murder but his friends did and he helped keep it under wraps.

I admit to not knowing the full facts of the Stallworth case and will now take him off the list and will be adding Hernandez to the number three spot.

[supremebve]

Can't believe I forgot Aaron Hernandez.

Ray Lewis I always felt never actually commited a murder but his friends did and he helped keep it under wraps.

I admit to not knowing the full facts of the Stallworth case and will now take him off the list and will be adding Hernandez to the number three spot.

The Ray Lewis thing isn't that cut or dry either.  The evidence seems to say that he didn't even know those guys.  It was basically him and a couple of friends rented a limo, and each of them invited 2 or 3 people each to fill it up.  The murderers were basically friends of friends that he didn't even know.  I have 3 or 4 friends who have birthdays within a week of mine, and we used to pool all of our separate groups of friends together to minimize costs for our birthday parties.  So I understand how you could get caught up in some bullshit based on sharing a limo/VIP section at a club with people you don't realy know.  The thing is when you are a famous athlete and people see you with a couple of dudes that kill someone, your name is going to be the first name out of everyone's mouth.

[Tabe]

Can't believe I forgot Aaron Hernandez.

Ray Lewis I always felt never actually commited a murder but his friends did and he helped keep it under wraps.

I admit to not knowing the full facts of the Stallworth case and will now take him off the list and will be adding Hernandez to the number three spot.

The Ray Lewis thing isn't that cut or dry either. The evidence seems to say that he didn't even know those guys. It was basically him and a couple of friends rented a limo, and each of them invited 2 or 3 people each to fill it up. The murderers were basically friends of friends that he didn't even know. I have 3 or 4 friends who have birthdays within a week of mine, and we used to pool all of our separate groups of friends together to minimize costs for our birthday parties. So I understand how you could get caught up in some bullshit based on sharing a limo/VIP section at a club with people you don't realy know. The thing is when you are a famous athlete and people see you with a couple of dudes that kill someone, your name is going to be the first name out of everyone's mouth.

The Ray Lewis thing IS pretty cut and dry. One of two things happened: 1) Ray participated in the murders; or 2) Ray knew who committed them. Let's assume #2 is the case. Ray lied to the cops about what he knew, destroyed the suit he was wearing that night, and protected the killers. Whether they were friends or friends of friends doesn't really change how disgusting his actions were.

[supremebve]

 

 

Can't believe I forgot Aaron Hernandez.

Ray Lewis I always felt never actually commited a murder but his friends did and he helped keep it under wraps.

I admit to not knowing the full facts of the Stallworth case and will now take him off the list and will be adding Hernandez to the number three spot.

The Ray Lewis thing isn't that cut or dry either. The evidence seems to say that he didn't even know those guys. It was basically him and a couple of friends rented a limo, and each of them invited 2 or 3 people each to fill it up. The murderers were basically friends of friends that he didn't even know. I have 3 or 4 friends who have birthdays within a week of mine, and we used to pool all of our separate groups of friends together to minimize costs for our birthday parties. So I understand how you could get caught up in some bullshit based on sharing a limo/VIP section at a club with people you don't realy know. The thing is when you are a famous athlete and people see you with a couple of dudes that kill someone, your name is going to be the first name out of everyone's mouth.

The Ray Lewis thing IS pretty cut and dry. One of two things happened: 1) Ray participated in the murders; or 2) Ray knew who committed them. Let's assume #2 is the case. Ray lied to the cops about what he knew, destroyed the suit he was wearing that night, and protected the killers. Whether they were friends or friends of friends doesn't really change how disgusting his actions were.

 

I in no way said he was innocent, but people often refer to him as a murderer, when that is pretty clearly not the case.  He handled the situation terribly, to say the least, but that doesn't make him a murderer.  The prosecuter later admitted that he charged him with murder in order to get publicity for his reelection.  The issue was that all of the witnesses who placed Ray Lewis at the scene testified that not only did they not see Lewis stab anyone, he was actively trying to break up the fight.  So when I say it is not cut and dry, I'm talking about people still referring to him as a murderer when there is no evidence whatsoever that he murdered anyone.

[KidNatural]

I'm pretty sure that Aaron Hernandez is worse if he's convicted of all the murders.

[Guest The Magnificent 7]

I'd like to think we're smart enough to simply say "Wow, that's awful" or "Geez, that was overblown."  At the very least, let's not have workrates on potentially abusive situtations.

 

Yeah because we saw workrates in this thread. 

 

You're being a drama queen.

 

It's a perfectly reasonable discussion to think about morals and what is a worse offense.  As glfpunk says, sentencing takes all sorts of mitigating factors into consideration when dealing with immoral / criminal behavior.  I may not agree with Cristobal and the other guy on what is worse, but we both agree both offenses are really bad.  I respect their opinions even though we disagree.  I don't automatically think their moral compass is broken.  Nobody insulted anyone else, nobody treated the subject with flippancy or with disdain for any victims (as far as I can tell). 

 

People need to stop being so precious on this board.  Getting tiresome.

[Burgundy LaRue]

 

I'd like to think we're smart enough to simply say "Wow, that's awful" or "Geez, that was overblown."  At the very least, let's not have workrates on potentially abusive situtations.

 

Yeah because we saw workrates in this thread. 

 

You're being a drama queen.

 

It's a perfectly reasonable discussion to think about morals and what is a worse offense.  As glfpunk says, sentencing takes all sorts of mitigating factors into consideration when dealing with immoral / criminal behavior.  I may not agree with Cristobal and the other guy on what is worse, but we both agree both offenses are really bad.  I respect their opinions even though we disagree.  I don't automatically think their moral compass is broken.  Nobody insulted anyone else, nobody treated the subject with flippancy or with disdain for any victims (as far as I can tell). 

 

People need to stop being so precious on this board.  Getting tiresome.

 

 

This isn't condescending AT ALL.

 

About to get off work, so I'll reply in depth later.  But I sure as hell didn't call out anyone's moral compass or deem them bad because I disagree.  But hey, if that's what you think I did with my precious self, more power to you.

 

EDIT:  Lost track of time, so I can talk for a bit.

 

I think glfpunk's concept of how to describe what form of abuse is worse is insulting--but it's his opinion.  I didn't suggest that his sense of morality is broken.  I don't know him, so I can't possibly know how he truly thinks on the matter.  You jumped to a load on conclusions.  But if he's willing to write his opinion, there's nothing wrong with me calling out what I think is wrong with it.

 

Calling someone a drama queen is dismissive, especially on a topic like this.  But fuck it, call me precious on it.  Because on a topic like this, someone needs to be.  Because sometimes, even well-meaning folks need to learn better.

 

Once the subject of which abuse is worse comes into play--we're royally fucked.  Really, that's a conversation worth having?  ALL forms of abuse are wrong, and I don't see how a contest over which is worse is worthwhile to anyone.  Maiming and killing dogs.  Maiming and killing spouses.  Cristobal basically said that Vick was worse than Rice because Rice knocked out his wife that one time because he was drunk.  Again, I'm not trying to rag on glfpunk or Cristobal here.  But if that's what anyone thinks that--good night, we're all screwed.

 

And frankly, I seemed to rub you the wrong way. Never mind that I said that all of us--myself included--were going down that dark turn.  But if you or anyone else thinks the conversation is going in a productive manner--again, more power to you.  But I'll say that it's not.

[Guest The Magnificent 7]

 I'm saying there is no reason to overact with, how shall we say it, oh I'll use one of your favorite expressions to use on people here...pearl clutching, with people having a perfectly natural discussion about severity of crimes. 

 

You were being dramatic with your talk of workrates and "dark turns."  It's not the end of the world, but I'm sure you'll double down and turn this into a bigger unnecessary ordeal when you reply in depth.  Put me on ignore if I rub you the wrong way.  Problem solved.

 

EDIT - I had quoted dark paths.  My apologies, as it was dark turns.  Fixed.

[glfpunk]

Once the subject of which abuse is worse comes into play--we're royally fucked.  Really, that's a conversation worth having?  ALL forms of abuse are wrong, and I don't see how a contest over which is worse is worthwhile to anyone.  Maiming and killing dogs.  Maiming and killing spouses.  Cristobal basically said that Vick was worse than Rice because Rice knocked out his wife that one time because he was drunk.  Again, I'm not trying to rag on glfpunk or Cristobal here.  But if that's what anyone thinks that--good night, we're all screwed.

 

 

So pretty much your whole argument is how it's ridiculous to rate and rank these sorts of things and that you and all of us should be above such a thing and you eventually go on to do that exact thing.  You couldn't have ended this conversation any more perfectly than you did.  

[Guest The Magnificent 7]

 

Once the subject of which abuse is worse comes into play--we're royally fucked.  Really, that's a conversation worth having?

 

Some of us certainly felt so.  I really don't understand, and I am trying, why you feel it is wrong for an individual to think certain behavior is more morally or criminally worse than another. 

 

I've nailed my colors to the mast on what is worse and you've read my brief thoughts on it.  Some people disagreed, and I knew they (not them in particular) would.  I'd still have a beer with them because they think both behaviors are immoral and criminal and most likely wouldn't engage in either of them.

 

Many judges more learned than either you or I give different sentences for similar offenses.  It's a human and natural thing to do to weigh immoral or criminal behavior.  If a friend lied to me I'd probably forgive them, but if they stole from me I would have a hard time doing so. 

[Burgundy LaRue]

 

Once the subject of which abuse is worse comes into play--we're royally fucked.  Really, that's a conversation worth having?  ALL forms of abuse are wrong, and I don't see how a contest over which is worse is worthwhile to anyone.  Maiming and killing dogs.  Maiming and killing spouses.  Cristobal basically said that Vick was worse than Rice because Rice knocked out his wife that one time because he was drunk.  Again, I'm not trying to rag on glfpunk or Cristobal here.  But if that's what anyone thinks that--good night, we're all screwed.

 

 

So pretty much your whole argument is how it's ridiculous to rate and rank these sorts of things and that you and all of us should be above such a thing and you eventually go on to do that exact thing.  You couldn't have ended this conversation any more perfectly than you did.  

 

 

My point is that if Cristobal thinks that is the only time Rice hit his wife--I fear he's mistaken.  If someone thinks that's the first time Rice struck his wife--we really have no concept of how this works.

[Guest The Magnificent 7]

 

But if he's willing to write his opinion, there's nothing wrong with me calling out what I think is wrong with it.

 

But to my mind you weren't arguing that, you were telling all of us to shut up in as many words.  If you want to argue one way or the other join the conversation, but there's no harm in arguing your corner on what crime is worse. 

[ivpvideos]

I think that was the first time Ray Rice hit his wife and I don't see any reason to believe otherwise. I don't recall any other incident that Ray Rice was involved in.